Around the Horn Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 4 hours ago, Red Comet said: Now let's talk about something relevant: The Rays players aren't too thrilled about this time and place split either. Just sowing the seeds for a full time move to Montreal... note that none of them objected to the team moving but they just objected to a split season... Quote “When you have a market like this where you have a team of our caliber and we’re second to last in attendance, it’s problematic,’’ said Pham, a free agent in 2022. “I can understand if we’re losing, but we’re not. Back to back seasons, we’re on a pace for 90 or more wins. Our owner is doing everything like the (recent special) $2 tickets. … This is a way to provide the franchise with more revenue to go out and get more players. So I understand their reasons behind it.’’ Quote “I don’t really care where I play as long as we have a good crowd and it’s fun,’’ he said. “I’m a bigger fan of pick one or the other – whatever y’all want to do, I just want to play. Wherever I play at, that’s for them to decide. … But a split thing, that’s tough.’’ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 26 minutes ago, Around the Horn said: Just sowing the seeds for a full time move to Montreal... note that none of them objected to the team moving but they just objected to a split season... Indeed. Nobody’s been more critical about the miserable Tampa Bay attendance than Rays players themselves. Going back years. 3 Quote The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DG_ThenNowForever Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 5 hours ago, SFGiants58 said: Yes! We do need more Heathers reaction gifs. 4 Quote 1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said: and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwabel Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, DG_Now said: Yes! We do need more Heathers reaction gifs. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Comet Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 6 hours ago, Ice_Cap said: I can't imagine they would be. All the headaches of immigrating without the actual stability of setting up shop in a new country. Not to mention the whole "paying taxes in two different countries". Only winners will be CPAs in Tampa and Montreal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfwabel Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Red Comet said: Not to mention the whole "paying taxes in two different countries". Only winners will be CPAs in Tampa and Montreal. Everyone in MLB already pays taxes in every city/state/province today if they visit TOR in a season. The jock tax has been real for over a decade. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-pro-athletes-may-lose-a-fortune-because-of-the-new-tax-law-2018-12-06 Edited July 7, 2019 by dfwabel 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Comet Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 7 hours ago, dfwabel said: Everyone in MLB already pays taxes in every city/state/province today if they visit TOR in a season. The jock tax has been real for over a decade. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-pro-athletes-may-lose-a-fortune-because-of-the-new-tax-law-2018-12-06 The more you know. I'd hate to be a golfer, tennis player or soccer player then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCall Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 14 hours ago, who do you think said: Breaking news, guy thinks his place of birth is special and not like all the others. Refusing to curtsy in the presence of any Canadian or European that claims that his country has something more specialer than anything in mine that I could never understand = Ugly American. zzzzzzzzzzzz You get one of Kawhi Leonard's cornrows and a free footlong sub from Publix. I'm not interested in something that "transcends" sports, I'm interested in whether or not there would be a guaranteed rivalry in sports, and why. Montreal and Toronto aren't special. Sorry. I tried skimming this... "guy's"... posts, but at the beginning of each sentence, I realized it was a waste of time. So, from a logical American's perspective on the Toronto-Montreal rivalry as it pertains sports, I look at Toronto-Montreal as the Canadian New York-Boston, where there is automatic contention, albeit probably more civil since it is Canada, but a rivalry nonetheless. Basically, one of two things can happen: either there's a rivalry or there's not. And I'd say the safe bet is to assume that it WOULD be a rivalry, with one NOT forming being the exception. I also believe, from an MLB perspective especially with travel, that the "Expos" staying in the AL would make more sense. Right now, Tampa Bay is so far removed from the other AL East teams. The Marlins have a nearby opponent in the Braves, so there's at least some lessened travel. Flipping the Marlins to the AL just increases it because A. They're actually farther south than TB and B. It increases regular travel for the Braves as well. This makes me think leaving the "Expos" in the AL East would be better on multiple fronts over the nostalgia of the old Expos in the NL. I mean, they didn't move the Nationals back to the AL when they left Montreal even though every previous MLB Washington team was in the AL. Just my pair of Lincolns. 6 Quote https://dribbble.com/MakaioCall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 15 hours ago, who do you think said: Montreal and Toronto aren't special. Sorry. @Ice_Cap is too kind to come right out and say it, but yes, the Montreal-Toronto dynamic IS special and unlike anything that we have in the US. Canada is not a very populous country (number 39 in my program, number 2 in my heart), and there’s a lot of elbow room. Almost a quarter of the population lives in those two metro areas. The Montreal-Toronto duopoly and the fact that they represent fundamentally different populations that have been in a frequently-awkward union for hundreds of years is quite simply something that we don’t have in the US. Rivalries aren’t guaranteed by city affiliations, but they can juice the odds. Yankees-Red Sox is an all-timer, but Patriots-Jets not so much. However, that Patriots-Jets game probably still means more to those fans than a game against another random bad team, like Bills-Jets or Bills-Patriots. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 I don't know if Patriots-Jets is an all-timer, but it's something with the way Belichick and Parcells weave through both of them. I don't think there was ever much to it before then because the Patriots' only rivalry had been with its own obsolescence. There are lots of city rivalries that in the grand scheme don't mean anything. Montreal and Toronto is not among them at all. 10 Quote ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridleylash Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 There's a reason Canadiens fans would rather cheer for the Bruins, a team they utterly despise, over the Leafs if the Canadiens aren't an option during playoff time; Montréal and Toronto have the oldest and most storied rivalry in the NHL, which is one of the oldest rivalries in all of sports. It definitely bleeds over into other sports, too; the Toronto FC and Montréal Impact, for example, have a spirited rivalry. Even the cities themselves have been rivals for much of their existence, stemming from how they represent both sides of Canada. The two are the San Francisco and Los Angeles of Canada, in my opinion; mostly friendly to each other, but mortal enemies when it comes to sports. If the Expos ever return in the same division as the Jays, you will see the Jays be one of their most heated rivals, because Montreal and Toronto cannot stand each other when it comes to sports; never have and never will. A Montréal fan cheering for a Toronto team is like a Oilers fan cheering for the Flames. It'll never happen. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinFromBoston Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 1 hour ago, the admiral said: I don't know if Patriots-Jets is an all-timer, but it's something with the way Belichick and Parcells weave through both of them. I don't think there was ever much to it before then because the Patriots' only rivalry had been with its own obsolescence. As far as Boston-NY rivalries go, I think Patriots-Giants is a bigger rivalry than Patriots-Jets. Despite not even being in the same conference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DG_ThenNowForever Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 57 minutes ago, AustinFomBoston said: As far as Boston-NY rivalries go, I think Patriots-Giants is a bigger rivalry than Patriots-Jets. Despite not even being in the same conference. And despite not even really being a rivalry. Pats are 0-fer against the Giants when it matters. 4 Quote 1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said: and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 2 hours ago, the admiral said: I don't know if Patriots-Jets is an all-timer, but it's something with the way Belichick and Parcells weave through both of them. I don't think there was ever much to it before then because the Patriots' only rivalry had been with its own obsolescence. There are lots of city rivalries that in the grand scheme don't mean anything. Montreal and Toronto is not among them at all. Are there any American sports rivalries where the rivalry between cities does matter? Boston and NY aren't "rivals", because they're not competing for attention or to be the cultural or economic center. It's just sports. Boston could have a rivalry with Philadelphia, but to my knowledge doesn't. I don't see any way in which St. Louis and Chicago are rivals outside the context of sports. Maybe NY has one with LA over being the entertainment or media capital of the country? Maybe the CA cities do? DAL/HOU? IDK. I don't see any American rivalries that would be based on anything as deep as what the TOR/MTL one is. 3 Quote "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 1 minute ago, BringBackTheVet said: I don't see any way in which St. Louis and Chicago are rivals outside the context of sports. Well, Chicago overtook St. Louis as the preeminent midwestern city by re-engineering a river to send its sewage down there. That must count for something. 6 Quote ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFGiants58 Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, the admiral said: Well, Chicago overtook St. Louis as the preeminent midwestern city by re-engineering a river to send its sewage down there. That must count for something. Said sewage eventually manifested itself in the form of hypersensitive Cardinals fans and people who think that Provel (a Milwaukee creation, I apologize on behalf of my former residence) is the perfect cheese topping. But back to the point at hand, MTL-TOR matters in a way that few rivalries do in the rest of North America. I guess you could argue that New York-Brooklyn used to be this (especially since the Giants played in Manhattan), but that's getting into some civic stuff that I don't know very much about. I would argue that SF Bay Area-LA only really matters for the Giants/Dodgers and the Sharks/Kings/Ducks. The Rams/49ers and the Lakers/Warriors have rarely been good at the same time. I guess Warriors/Clippers is a recent rivalry (one that will end once one team falls out of contention). Angels/A's should be a rivalry, but they've rarely had big series against each other and both teams seem more focused on their NL rivals than their geographic ones. 1 Quote MLB: Project 32 (Complete), MLB: The Defunct Saga (Complete) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBTV Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 Back on topic (if that's possible anymore): Do the Rays cost MLB money? I assume they don't contribute much to the revenue-sharing pool, but is there really a cost benefit for MLB to move them? They can't be losing money, or costing MLB, right? Where I'm going is that if Montreal is serious about having a team again, then MLB could be costing themselves $500M in expansion fees by moving a team there rather than expanding. That's another reason why the two-city thing seems like the worst option from an MLB standpoint. If the Rays were to flat-out move, then MLB could try to extract a large relocation fee to make up for the lost expansion fee. But the half-season thing doesn't seem to benefit anyone. Quote "The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 1 hour ago, BringBackTheVet said: That's another reason why the two-city thing seems like the worst option from an MLB standpoint. If the Rays were to flat-out move, then MLB could try to extract a large relocation fee to make up for the lost expansion fee. But the half-season thing doesn't seem to benefit anyone. Are relocation fees a thing? This is the first I've ever heard of such a thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rams80 Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 28 minutes ago, Around the Horn said: Are relocation fees a thing? This is the first I've ever heard of such a thing... The Rams wrote the rest of the NFL a pretty big check to move back to Los Angeles. 2 Quote On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said: You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now. On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said: Today, we are all otaku. "The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010 The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCap Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 28 minutes ago, Around the Horn said: Are relocation fees a thing? This is the first I've ever heard of such a thing... They are. Rarely at the level of an expansion fee, but they are “a thing.” 1 Quote PotD 26/2/12 1/7/15 2020 BASS Spin the Wheel, Make the Deal Regular Season Champion 2021 BASS NFL Pick'em Regular Season Champion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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