MLB Stadium Saga: Oakland/Tampa Bay/Southside

[Red Wolf]

1 hour ago, AustinFomBoston said:

So If I'm understanding this right; The Rays, a team that can't even get a new stadium built in 1 city, are demanding that 2 cities build them a new stadiums?

 

It's so ridiculous that it's almost like it's some sort of negotiating gambit where they don't actually expect to get two stadiums.

[Red Comet]

1 hour ago, Red Wolf said:

 

It's so ridiculous that it's almost like it's some sort of negotiating gambit where they don't actually expect to get two stadiums.

 

Even if it is a gambit (and it appears to be), it's still a very stupid gambit. Usually when teams try to demand a taxpayer-funded palace that 90% of the aforementioned taxpayers will never be able to afford to go to, they usually use a separate city exclusively as a proverbial gun to the head of local/state governments. This is the equivalent of painting a banana to look like a gun while pretending its a gun.

[GDAWG]

A two city solution might work if the two cities are next to each other, but this solution involves another country.

[JayMac]

14 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

Sounds like a solid business plan.

This has been their business plan for the last 20+ years.

[Gothamite]

This is the best take yet on yesterday’s farcical press conference. 

 

 

[PrimalCookie]

Honestly? If I had to choose between this proposal and them moving to Montreal permanently, I’m choosing Montreal for good. If you’re going to relocate, at least have the decency to call it what it is. A relocation.

 

As long as this team is the Tampa Bay Rays, I will support it. The second it becomes the Montreal Expos, it may as well not exist.

[spartacat_12]

8 hours ago, GDAWG said:

A two city solution might work if the two cities are next to each other, but this solution involves another country.

 

I think if the MLB is actually serious about having a two city team (which I doubt they are), it would make the most sense to move the Rays to Montreal full time, and to have the Marlins split their home games between Miami & the Tampa Bay area.

 

These are the two worst markets when it comes to attendance, so in theory they'd both draw better with half as many games to sell, plus the logistics would be much simpler (players live in the same state all season, no tax/tv/radio complications).

 

They could either revert back to being the Florida Marlins, or come up with something new that would still appease both fanbases.

[BBTV]

The regional Florida team is probably the best solution, though it’s impossible considering what Miami did for the Marlins in exchange for rebranding themselves as “Miami’s team”. 

[Marlins93]

I don't think the Marlins splitting their time between Tampa and Miami would work at all. It's as outlandish and defeatist as the Tampa/Montreal proposal. As soon as you start splitting the season between two different cities (even what the Expos were doing in Puerto Rico), you signal that the franchise is floundering with the writing on the wall for relocation/contraction. Neither Miami nor Tampa would embrace a shared team.

 

And why would the Marlins be better off playing half their games in the Trop, which we've all concluded is poorly located and provides a subpar baseball experience?

 

I'm still baffled why people want to relocate, contract, split a team that is playing in a brand new, state of the art ballpark.

[Survival79]

1 hour ago, spartacat_12 said:

I think if the MLB is actually serious about having a two city team (which I doubt they are), it would make the most sense to move the Rays to Montreal full time, and to have the Marlins split their home games between Miami & the Tampa Bay area.

 

These are the two worst markets when it comes to attendance, so in theory they'd both draw better with half as many games to sell, plus the logistics would be much simpler (players live in the same state all season, no tax/tv/radio complications).

 

They could either revert back to being the Florida Marlins, or come up with something new that would still appease both fanbases.

 

1. Give Sternberg an expansion team.

2. Merge the Rays and the Marlins. Rename the team the Florida Largemouths (the state freshwater fish). Largemouth bass logo with sun rays. The shared history serves as a foundation for the new team.

3. Hold an expansion/merger draft with the former Rays and Marlins players. The Florida team and Sternberg's expansion team rotate picks.

4. This is all no more ridiculous than Sternberg's Tampa Bay/Montreal model.

 

14 minutes ago, Marlins93 said:

As soon as you start splitting the season between two different cities (even what the Expos were doing in Puerto Rico), you signal that the franchise is floundering with the writing on the wall for relocation/contraction.

 

Both franchises are floundering.

 

14 minutes ago, Marlins93 said:

Neither Miami nor Tampa would embrace a shared team.

 

I'd totally embrace a team shared among Florida locales.

 

14 minutes ago, Marlins93 said:

And why would the Marlins be better off playing half their games in the Trop, which we've all concluded is poorly located and provides a subpar baseball experience?

 

Under this scenario, a new stadium would be built in St. Petersburg/Tampa just like the proposed Tampa Bay/Montreal model.

[Marlins93]

Both teams are floundering attendance wise for slightly different reasons, but the common denominator is a general lack of enthusiasm in their respective cities. This could probably be attributed to the number of transplants or also the overall lack of a strong baseball culture. Regardless, splitting a team between two cities in very different markets that have both demonstrated attendance issues and a lack of fan enthusiasm is a recipe for a disaster. It simply won't work because it would only exacerbate the current conditions that lead to lackluster ticket sales.

 

And the whole premise of building a new multi hundred million dollar ballpark for only 41 home games is a total joke. Tampa or St. Pete would never publicly fund something like that. Regardless, it makes little sense to play only half a season in Marlins Park when the attendance issues they've been facing have little to do with the ballpark and more to do with the culture of distrust and frustration regarding ownership.

 

The Marlins don't need to play half their games in the Tampa area to succeed, they just need competent ownership and they will be fine.

 

[Brian in Boston]

You know who I see being inspired by Stu Sternberg's truly visionary two-market, bi-national, split-season proposal? Arte Moreno. Hell, if Tampa Bay-Montréal works for the Rays, imagine how the Angels would thrive splitting their season between Anaheim and Edmonton! After all, 12 of the Trappers' 24 seasons were spent as the Halos' top farm team. And to prove that he's really thinking outside-the-box, Arte could take things further and opt to have the Angel-Trappers play the Edmonton half of the schedule against Pacific Coast League teams. The club might not contend for the AL West crown, but the PCL Pacific Northern Division should be within reach, right?  

[Sec19Row53]

15 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

I blame Abudadein’s machinations. He used a Bostonian carpetbagger (that term gets thrown around A LOT with Stu) to bring his devilish machinations to Florida!

 

 

Florida Championship Wrestling was a fairly overlooked-yet-influential territory, BTW.

 

???, Kevin Sullivan, Oliver Humperdink, and Woman, correct?

[SFGiants58]

18 minutes ago, Sec19Row53 said:

???, Kevin Sullivan, Oliver Humperdink, and Woman, correct?

 

Jeff "Snakemaster Abudadein" Gardner is the name you're looking for here. Also, Woman/Nancy Toffoloni was going by the name "Fallen Angel" at the time. 

[Sec19Row53]

3 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

Jeff "Snakemaster Abudadein" Gardner is the name you're looking for here. Also, Woman/Nancy Toffoloni was going by the name "Fallen Angel" at the time. 

I have never seen her as Fallen Angel. Wow - my eyes

[gosioux76]

The assumptions made by the Rays ownership group in this story are mind-boggling:

• They believe cutting the number of games in half will improve revenues because demand for the remaining games will increase.
• They believe this scheme could create some weird economic development symbiosis between Tampa and Montreal
• They believe it will make the team a tourist draw (from vacationing Quebekers, I presume?)
• And despite all of this, they seem to believe that the fans will somehow embrace all this. Because if they don't, the whole idea falls to pieces. 

Just mind boggling.

[Maroon]

Considering two people on this page alone used the word "floundering" to describe the Florida franchises and their attendance, how about move the Rays to Montreal and split the Marlins between St. Pete and Miami and call them the Florida Flounders. Heck, have them play a few games in Orlando and they could get licensing rights from Disney for this bad boy to appear in their logo:

 

[GhostOfNormMacdonald]

I can't wait for the Rays to return home from their road trip to an empty(ier) stadium. I want to see if fans boycott to tell Stu to :censored: off or finally show up to try and convince him to stay. Previous is more likely

[CardsFan79]

I thought I read in some of the articles about yesterday's press conference that the Montreal Group was going to have their own press conference today, but I can't find any info on it.  Did they hold one or did I make all that up in my mind?

[Survival79]

6 hours ago, CardsFan79 said:

I thought I read in some of the articles about yesterday's press conference that the Montreal Group was going to have their own press conference today, but I can't find any info on it.  Did they hold one or did I make all that up in my mind?

 

Montreal businessman on Rays' future: 'It's a full-time team played in 2 places'

Montreal, QC — Canadian businessmen Stephen Bronfman and Pierre Boivin acknowledged Wednesday St. Petersburg’s mayor would have to give the Tampa Bay Rays approval to begin pursuing the possibility of splitting home games between two cities.

 

Bronfman’s investment company, Claridge, and development company Devimco are teaming up to try to bring Major League Baseball back to Montreal.

 

"We really have a real chance to have a team in Montreal today," Bronfman said.

 

The Rays’ lease runs through the 2027 season at Tropicana Field. Under the team’s current agreement, the Rays can’t pursue hosting home games outside of St. Petersburg during that time period.

 

St. Petersburg Mayor Rick Kriseman said Tuesday the city would "not participate in the funding of a new stadium for a part-time team."

 

"It’s a full-time team," Bronfman said at a Wednesday afternoon news conference. "It’s just played in two places."

 

The Rays would have to reach a memorandum of understanding with the city of St. Petersburg before they could negotiate playing home games elsewhere, in this case between the Tampa Bay area and Montreal.

 

The Montreal group needs approval from St. Petersburg before devising a business model, Bronfman said.

 

The Montreal Expos left Canada after the 2004 season when the franchise moved to Washington, D.C.

 

Bronfman and Boivin have gotten MLB’s approval to pursue the two-city plan while they wait for St. Petersburg.

 

"We've got an opportunity to explore and study this sister-city concept," Bronfman said. "Hats off to MLB for their innovative thinking."

 

Bronfman called the split-city concept "groundbreaking," comparing it to massive sharing-economy companies like Airbnb and Uber.

 

A North American professional sports team – which includes MLB, the NFL, the NHL and the NBA – has never had a team evenly split its home games for an entire season.

 

Before the Montreal Expos moved from Montreal to Washington, D.C. in 2005, the team played 22 home games in Puerto Rico in 2003 and 2004.

 

Bronfman admitted to having conversations with Rays owner Stuart Sternberg. Bronfman said he didn't ask Sternberg to buy the team, but he did ask about relocating the Rays.

 

During Wednesday’s news conference, Bronfman and Boivin didn’t say how much an open-air stadium would cost or how it would be financed.

 

"We’re not going to start building a stadium without a definitive plan," Boivin said.

 

Bronfman said it might make more fiscal sense to build an open-air stadium used for part of the year because the seats higher up in any stadium or arena don’t provide as much return on investment as the closer, more expensive seats. He also admitted inclement weather in both Tampa Bay and Montreal could lead to postponed games and doubleheaders.

 

A new open-air stadium in Montreal could also be used for concerts and football, according to Bronfman.

 

Bronfman said it wasn’t his call for how soon it could be until Montreal hosts MLB games again. He said it would take about three years to build a new stadium.

 

Bronfman said he would like for his 88-year-old father to see the first pitch if MLB returns to Montreal.

 

While Bronfman didn’t dismiss the possibility of playing at the Expos’ old home, Olympic Stadium, for the first few years, he said MLB prefers a new downtown stadium before bringing a team to Montreal.

 

Bronfman also acknowledged the necessity of getting the MLB Players’ Association on board with a split-city concept.

 

Sports agent Scott Boras told the Tampa Bay Times he didn’t think any player moving midseason was "workable." Boras said he couldn’t envision the Players’ Association agreeing to the split season because he said it would affect players, their performance and their families.

 

Bronfman said while Boras was one key voice, it would be a "team effort" to get the Players’ Association to agree to a team hosting home games in two cities. It would take a "lot of lobbying and a lot of work," Bronfman said.

 

Like Sternberg and Rays management suggested Tuesday, Bronfman said the team could have a higher player payroll by splitting the season between two cities.

 

"It's hard to fight against a behemoth [the New York Yankees]," Bronfman said.