MLB Stadium Saga: Oakland/Tampa Bay/Southside

[IceCap]

3 hours ago, who do you think said:

None of this answers my question.

It does, actually. 

[Dynasty]

On-field success doesn't apply to New York and Boston; their fans both hate each other regardless.

[who do you think]

17 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

It does, actually. 

 

No, it doesn't. Your entire post is MUH LEAFS-CANADIENS.

 

15 hours ago, Dolphins Dynasty said:

On-field success doesn't apply to New York and Boston; their fans both hate each other regardless.

 

In baseball and sometimes football, yes. In basketball and hockey, no.

[IceCap]

12 minutes ago, who do you think said:

No, it doesn't. Your entire post is MUH LEAFS-CANADIENS.

So thanks for admitting that you didn’t actually read my post. At best you skimmed it because I outlined how, even beyond sports, Montreal and Toronto have always been “rivals” within Canada, being the most influential cities in French and English Canada respectfully.

Seriously, I outlined how they’ve jockeyed for position of Canada’s largest city and economic centre and how this represents the divide between Canada’s two largest language groups. 

 

All of that’s in the post you didn’t read, so try doing that next time before being so dismissive.

 

EDIT- 

Here’s another fun factoid. 

The capital of Canada used to rotate between York (present-day Toronto) and Montreal to avoid offending one of them. 

This lasted until the creation of the Dominion government in 1867. Dominion status meant the need for a permanent capital, and so Ottawa was chosen. Why? Well among other things it’s halfway between Toronto and Montreal.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Ice_Cap

[who do you think]

19 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

So thanks for admitting that you didn’t actually read my post. At best you skimmed it because I outlined how, even beyond sports, Montreal and Toronto have always been “rivals” within Canada, being the most influential cities in French and English Canada respectfully.

Seriously, I outlined how they’ve jockeyed for position of Canada’s largest city and economic centre and how this represents the divide between Canada’s two largest language groups. 

 

All of that’s in the post you didn’t read, so try doing that next time before being so dismissive.

 

I read your entire post, slugger. Most of it was Leafs-Habs, and the part that wasn't Leafs-Habs was irrelevant.

 

Let's try this again. How does a suggested essay topic for one of your term papers guarantee a sports rivalry between Toronto and Montreal in a sport that isn't hockey (Alouettes-Argonauts isn't a rivalry)? You think Toronto and Montreal are the only two large cities in North America with built-in cultural differences that have been economic competitors with one another?

 

 

Quote

 

EDIT- 

Here’s another fun factoid. 

The capital of Canada used to rotate between York (present-day Toronto) and Montreal to avoid offending one of them. 

This lasted until the creation of the Dominion government in 1867. Dominion status meant the need for a permanent capital, and so Ottawa was chosen. Why? Well among other things it’s halfway between Toronto and Montreal.

 

 

Okay.

[IceCap]

12 minutes ago, who do you think said:

I read your entire post, slugger.

You know what I find hilarious, sparky? You whine about how unfair this place is, but you're nothing but unnecessarily confrontational.

 

12 minutes ago, who do you think said:

Most of it was Leafs-Habs, and the part that wasn't Leafs-Habs was irrelevant.

No, not really. You asked if there would be a Toronto/Montreal rivalry outside of Leafs/Habs and I explained that yes. Yes there would. You don't get to declare it "irrelevant" just because it disproves your point.

 

12 minutes ago, who do you think said:

(Alouettes-Argonauts isn't a rivalry)

Ah, see this is your problem. You've already made it up in your head that there is no reason a Toronto team and a Montreal team would be rivals beyond Maple Leafs/Canadiens. When someone proves you wrong by pointing out that 1) there are other Toronto and Montreal-based teams with rivalries and 2) that the Leafs/Canadiens rivalry is really an outgrowth of a rivalry between two cities that transcends sports you just get dismissive and declare it doesn't count. Sorry, that's not how that works. You don't get to dictate what facts are relevant or not.

 

So chief, here it is.

Toronto and Montreal have a rivalry that pre-dates even the establishment of the Canadian government as we know it today. The cities have always represented the cultural and economic epicentres of each of Canada's two largest language groups. Historically? The ascent of one's influence is paired with the loss of influence for the other. Habs/Leafs and Als/Argos sprung forth from this, because of course such a cultural rivalry between two cities would spill out into sports. Meaning that any Montreal team would be an immediate rival for the Blue Jays. Especially now that interleague is a regular occurrence.

 

So there's your answer. I'm sorry if it doesn't conform to what you already decided the answer in your head was going to be, but them's the breaks. Accept that maybe someone who's studied Canadian history and politics knows a bit more about this subject than you do.

 

12 minutes ago, who do you think said:

You think Toronto and Montreal are the only two large cities in North America with built-in cultural differences that have been economic competitors with one another?

I think that given the unique linguistic divide in Canada? Toronto vs Montreal is very much on a different level than, say, Boston vs New York. Or LA vs San Francisco.

 

Look, if you're not Canadian it probably seems odd. As someone who grew up in the country and studied this crap though? Yeah. I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt. Put a team in Montreal and they'll be the Jays' primary rival within a season.

[who do you think]

17 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

You know what I find hilarious, sparky? You whine about how unfair this place is, but you're nothing but unnecessarily confrontational.

 

Right back at you. Well maybe not the first part (you're a mod so you can just nuke anything you don't like), but the second part. And so is almost every other regular here.

 

Quote

No, not really. You asked if there would be a Toronto/Montreal rivalry outside of Leafs/Habs and I explained that yes. Yes there would. You don't get to declare it "irrelevant" just because it disproves your point.

 

That easy, huh?

 

Quote

Ah, see this is your problem. You've already made it up in your head that there is no reason a Toronto team and a Montreal team would be rivals beyond Maple Leafs/Canadiens. When someone proves you wrong by pointing out that 1) there are other Toronto and Montreal-based teams with rivalries and 2) that the Leafs/Canadiens rivalry is really an outgrowth of a rivalry between two cities that transcends sports you just get condescending and dismissive.

 

You think Toronto and Montreal are the only two large cities in North America with built-in cultural differences that have been economic competitors with one another?

 

Quote

So chief, here it is.

Toronto and Montreal have a rivalry that pre-dates even the establishment of the Canadian government as we know it today. The cities have always represented the cultural and economic epicentres of each of Canada's two largest language groups. Historically? The ascent of one's influence is paired with the loss of influence for the other. Habs/Leafs and Als/Argos sprung forth from this, because of course such a cultural rivalry between two cities would spill out into sports. Meaning that any Montreal team would be an immediate rival for the Blue Jays. Especially now that interleague is a regular occurrence.

 

Toronto and Montreal will always have guaranteed sports rivalries because language and government? That's hilarious.

 

(Als/Argos isn't a rivalry)

 

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So there's your answer. I'm sorry if it doesn't conform to what you already decided the answer in your head was going to be, but them's the breaks. Accept that maybe someone who's studied Canadian history and politics knows a bit more about this subject than you do.

 

I want to respond to this with a Crying Wojak meme wearing a vintage Raptors jersey holding up a sheet that has "term paper" written on it, but I'd have to actually create it and that would too much effort for something that probably only I would find funny.

[IceCap]

6 minutes ago, who do you think said:

you're a mod so you can just nuke anything you don't like

Except I've never done that just to do that. I've gotten into lots of arguments before. I've never deleted an opposing viewpoint just because I didn't like it. I only delete crap when I see stuff that violates this community's guidelines.

 

6 minutes ago, who do you think said:

That easy, huh?

It was, actually. And it was because as it just so happens? I know what the I'm talking about.

 

6 minutes ago, who do you think said:

Toronto and Montreal will always have guaranteed sports rivalries because language and government? That's hilarious.

I mean...yeah. You're openly parading your ignorance if you can't understand the role that the French/English divide has played in shaping Canada at nearly every level. Reference the sentence above re: me knowing what I'm talking about.

 

6 minutes ago, who do you think said:

Als/Argos isn't a rivalry

You're running with the "repeat a lie enough times eventually people will believe it" strategy?

 

6 minutes ago, who do you think said:

I want to respond to this with a Crying Wojak meme wearing a vintage Raptors jersey holding up a sheet that has "term paper" written on it, but I'd have to actually create it and that would too much effort for too little payoff. 

What I find interesting is that you're not even trying to disprove the point anymore. You're just being a snide

And hey, personal insults are an easy go-to when you've got nothing left, but maybe try just staying quiet next time you're proven wrong if you can't bring yourself to admit it.

[who do you think]

13 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

It was, actually. And it was because as it just so happens? I know what the I'm talking about.

 

Put money on it. If Expos-Blue Jays isn't the fiercest rivalry in baseball within five years of the former's revival, you owe me $50,000.

 

Actually, I'll be lenient and say top 5 fiercest rivalry in baseball.

 

Quote

I mean...yeah. You're openly parading your ignorance if you can't understand the role that the French/English divide has played in shaping Canada at nearly every level. Reference the sentence above re: me knowing what I'm talking about.

 

You think Toronto and Montreal are the only two large cities in North America with built-in cultural differences that have been economic competitors with one another?

 

Quote

You're running with the "repeat a lie enough times eventually people will believe it" strategy?

 

Als/Argos isn't a rivalry.

 

Quote

What I find interesting is that you're not even trying to disprove the point anymore. You're just being a snide

And hey, personal insults are an easy go-to when you've got nothing left, but maybe try just staying quiet next time you're proven wrong if you can't bring yourself to admit it.

 

I haven't been proven wrong on anything. You keep throwing out irrelevant information like the suggested topics for your college UNIVERSITY term paper and that the capital of Canada used to rotate in the 1800s. That's all super cool, but it doesn't explain why Toronto and Montreal would have a ready-made guaranteed rivalry across all sports, not just the NHL. Toronto and Montreal aren't the only two cities in North America that don't particularly like each other.

[IceCap]

1 minute ago, who do you think said:

You think Toronto and Montreal are the only two large cities in North America with built-in cultural differences that have been economic competitors with one another?

I don't think any other two cities in North America have the same dynamic as Montreal and Toronto You'd know that if you understood a G-ddamn thing about, well, Toronto, Montreal, or Canada in general.

The Ugly American persona's bad enough as-is, but it's even worse when you're publicly flaunting your ignorance on a topic like it's a virtue.

 

1 minute ago, who do you think said:

Put money on it. If Expos-Blue Jays isn't the fiercest rivalry in baseball within five years of the former's revival, you owe me $50,000.

What do I get if it is? I mean will you give me $50,000? Will you stop posting all together? Hell, I'll even accept you sticking around if you agree to stop with the dog whistle racism.

 

3 minutes ago, who do you think said:

haven't been proven wrong on anything. You keep throwing out irrelevant information like the suggested topics for your college UNIVERSITY term paper and that the capital of Canada used to rotate in the 1800s. That's all super cool, but it doesn't explain why Toronto and Montreal would have a ready-made guaranteed rivalry across all sports, not just the NHL.

You're a dense one, aren't ya?

See all of that stuff I've told you about was to establish that yes. There's a rivalry between Toronto and Montreal that transcends sports. And that this had lead to a ready-made rivalry between teams from those cities.

You're using the bad-faith tactic of dismissing any argument that counters your position as "irrelevant," which tells me you're not actually interested in an honest discussion. You just want to pontificate. And if you wanna do that in a public setting? You have to accept that people are going to tell you how full of you are.

 

[Olmec]

This thread was dead on arrival 

[who do you think]

5 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

I don't think any other two cities in North America have the same dynamic as Montreal and Toronto You'd know that if you understood a G-ddamn thing about, well, Toronto, Montreal, or Canada in general.

 

Breaking news, guy thinks his place of birth is special and not like all the others.

 

5 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

The Ugly American persona's bad enough as-is, but it's even worse when you're publicly flaunting your ignorance on a topic like it's a virtue.

 

Refusing to curtsy in the presence of any Canadian or European that claims that his country has something more specialer than anything in mine that I could never understand = Ugly American. zzzzzzzzzzzz

 

5 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

What do I get if it is? I mean will you give me $50,000? Will you stop posting all together? Hell, I'll even accept you sticking around if you agree to stop with the dog whistle racism.

 

You get one of Kawhi Leonard's cornrows and a free footlong sub from Publix.

 

5 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

You're a dense one, aren't ya?

See all of that stuff I've told you about was to establish that yes. There's a rivalry between Toronto and Montreal that transcends sports. And that this had lead to a ready-made rivalry between teams from those cities.

You're using the bad-faith tactic of dismissing any argument that counters your position as "irrelevant," which tells me you're not actually interested in an honest discussion. You just want to pontificate. And if you wanna do that in a public setting? You have to accept that people are going to tell you how full of you are.

 

 

I'm not interested in something that "transcends" sports, I'm interested in whether or not there would be a guaranteed rivalry in sports, and why. 

 

Montreal and Toronto aren't special. Sorry.

[IceCap]

9 minutes ago, who do you think said:

Montreal and Toronto aren't special. Sorry.

Never said they were special, chief. I just explained that there's a unique history here that creates, shocker, a unique situation. If you decided to take that as an attack on MUH AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM then I don't know what to tell you. I don't think it makes Canada "special." If anything the unique situation that pits Toronto against Montreal in pretty much anything has led to a lot of political strife and ethnic tension in my home country.

Still it's there, and makes for intense sports rivalries.

If you read all of that as me saying "Toronto and Montreal are more special than poopy American cities" than your persecution complex runs deep.

 

9 minutes ago, who do you think said:

I'm interested in whether or not there would be a guaranteed rivalry in sports, and why. 

There would be. Because history.

 

9 minutes ago, who do you think said:

Refusing to curtsy in the presence of any Canadian or European that claims that his country has something more specialer than anything in mine that I could never understand = Ugly American. zzzzzzzzzzzz

[Red Comet]

>Some 4channer as of the end of his freshman year of high school one month ago decides to modsass the head custodian and spills his spaghetti as a result.

 

Now let's talk about something relevant:

The Rays players aren't too thrilled about this time and place split either.

[SFGiants58]

14 minutes ago, who do you think said:

Refusing to curtsy in the presence of any Canadian or European that claims that his country has something more specialer than anything in mine that I could never understand = Ugly American. zzzzzzzzzzzz

 

 

You get one of Kawhi Leonard's cornrows and a free footlong sub from Publix.

 

[IceCap]

2 minutes ago, Red Comet said:

Now let's talk about something relevant:

The Rays players aren't too thrilled about this time and place split either.

I can't imagine they would be. All the headaches of immigrating without the actual stability of setting up shop in a new country.

[Matthew24]

Just now, Red Comet said:

Now let's talk about something relevant:

The Rays players aren't too thrilled about this time splitting either.

I knew this would happen. Honestly the players would have to travel more to play games for a team who isn't giving a care for the players. 

 

This idea of splitting a team home games up to two places isn't great to begin with. But to have them play in Canada isn't a good idea also. It feels rush as heck. 

[Wings]

Nothing is ever guaranteed but I have no doubts that the Jays & Expos both being in the AL East would ignite a rivalry especially playing each other 19 times a season. 

[habsfan1]

I always found it to be a bummer when all these plans of a baseball stadium replacement never came to fruition.

[The_Admiral]

2 hours ago, Red Comet said:

>Some 4channer as of the end of his freshman year of high school one month ago decides to modsass the head custodian and spills his spaghetti as a result.

 

Now let's talk about something relevant:

The Rays players aren't too thrilled about this time and place split either.

 

“This is some stressful stuff that Blake doesn’t like thinking about,’’ he said. “Blake just wants to throw the baseball.’’