Least Original Contrarian Takes

[IceCap]

2 hours ago, BBTV said:

Winning a Super Bowl, and performing well in another one tends to change minds.

People were calling Tom Brady a system QB after winning six Super Bowls.

[Red Wolf]

5 hours ago, IceCap said:

People were calling Tom Brady a system QB after winning six Super Bowls.

 

That was me! I was that guy! Belichick can suck it! I love sports! I love being wrong about things that don't matter!

[BBTV]

8 hours ago, IceCap said:

People were calling Tom Brady a system QB after winning six Super Bowls.

 

Really dumb people.  

 

Again - if it was a system, why couldn't any of Belicic's assistants replicate it?  If 'west coast offense' was a system, why weren't all the QBs plug-and-play?  People talk about coaches like they're geniuses that devise systems like they're in front of a chalk board solving the math formula for the theory of everything.  They're not.  They say "OK, our tight end is really good, so let's have him catch a ball over a bad linebacker".  Or "our receivers are bad, so let's put them in spots that only our greatest-of-all-time QB can hit them".  Boom - system created.  Put me in the hall of fame.

 

Andy Reid was the <tank>ABSOLUTE WORST</tank> at this.  He came in with a "5-year plan", and said publicly that it takes receivers a minimum of 3 years in the offense to truly understand the system.  He literally said that.  Then TO comes in and absolutely lights it up right away. 

 

Turns out good players are good.

[leopard88]

2 hours ago, BBTV said:

 

Really dumb people.  

 

In defense of those people, Matt Cassel went 11-5 in the Belichick system when Brady blew out his knee.  He also managed a 10-6 record in Kansas City in 2010.  However, even with the KC outlier, he was 26-35 as a starter outside of New England.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CassMa00.htm

 

I think Brady has proven that he wasn't a system QB in New England.  However, that position wasn't taken without evidence.

[ManillaToad]

3 minutes ago, leopard88 said:

Matt Cassel went 11-5 in the Belichick system when Brady blew out his knee.

 

You could also frame it as Matt Cassel went 11-5 on a 16-0 team

[DG_ThenNowForever]

6 minutes ago, leopard88 said:

 

In defense of those people, Matt Cassel went 11-5 in the Belichick system when Brady blew out his knee.  He also managed a 10-6 record in Kansas City in 2010.  However, even with the KC outlier, he was 26-35 as a starter outside of New England.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CassMa00.htm

 

I think Brady has proven that he wasn't a system QB in New England.  However, that position wasn't taken without evidence.

 

I was a Brady truther. Or at least someone who thought Brady and Belichick needed each other.

 

Turns out, nope! Now I'm over the Brady hate. He's the GOAT and, with the benefit of him being out of the AFC East, I can appreciate his career for what it is: the best ever.

[spartacat_12]

On 8/20/2021 at 3:45 PM, DEAD! said:

I don't know... but this is the first I have heard about Brodeur. 

 

On 8/22/2021 at 5:10 PM, BBTV said:

Granted, I don't really follow hockey anymore, but I've never heard or read anyone hate on Brodeur or diminish his accomplishments.  

 

Comments like these are what I was referring to (although @Kramerica Industries balanced out his point):

 

On 8/22/2021 at 7:22 PM, Kramerica Industries said:

...because I also think Brodeur's overrated in the grand scheme of things (he's not top-3 and he's nowhere near Patrick Roy, for me...

 

I feel like once Brodeur got the all time wins & shutouts records some people who liked other goalies got bitter and looked for arguments as to why he shouldn't be called the greatest goalie of all time. Based on what some people say you'd think Marty was just another Chris Osgood.

[IceCap]

It's Brodeur, Roy, and Hasek as the best ever when it comes to goaltenders. Toss in Ken Dryden and Vladislav Tretiak if you want to make it a top five. 

 

None of this is in any particular order. Brodeur has the wins and shutout records and eeks out a win in achievements over Roy with an equal number of Cups but also a gold medal. That being said, I can't say anyone who says Roy is better is wrong.

And Hasek doesn't have the Cups they have but his skill was unmatched to the point where as a young kid playing goalie my coach told me "don't try to emulate what Hasek does, because he's on another level and you just can't do it." 

 

Honestly you can't go wrong with Roy, Hasek, or Brodeur as the best ever. I just find the arguments that Brodeur was Actually Not Good to be ridiculous. 

 

I mean yeah he kind of tarnished his legacy with that St. Louis Blues stint, but Jordan did that with the Wizards and no one cares. 

[CS85]

9 minutes ago, IceCap said:

It's Brodeur, Roy, and Hasek as the best ever when it comes to goaltenders. Toss in Ken Dryden and Vladislav Tretiak if you want to make it a top five. 

 

None of this is in any particular order. Brodeur has the wins and shutout records and eeks out a win in achievements over Roy with an equal number of Cups but also a gold medal. That being said, I can't say anyone who says Roy is better is wrong.

And Hasek doesn't have the Cups they have but his skill was unmatched to the point where as a young kid playing goalie my coach told me "don't try to emulate what Hasek does, because he's on another level and you just can't do it." 

 

Honestly you can't go wrong with Roy, Hasek, or Brodeur as the best ever. I just find the arguments that Brodeur was Actually Not Good to be ridiculous. 

 

I mean yeah he kind of tarnished his legacy with that St. Louis Blues stint, but Jordan did that with the Wizards and no one cares. 

 

 

I think any of the "well he didn't retire with his team just at the end of his peak" arguments are pure trash.  Competitors can never quit if the game still brings joy and/or their bodies are up to task.   Emmett Smith petered out in Arizona.  Gretzky spun his tires on the Rangers and Blues.  Jerry Rice was a Seahawk.  Et al.

 

 

[Red Wolf]

1 hour ago, leopard88 said:

 

In defense of those people, Matt Cassel went 11-5 in the Belichick system when Brady blew out his knee.  He also managed a 10-6 record in Kansas City in 2010.  However, even with the KC outlier, he was 26-35 as a starter outside of New England.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CassMa00.htm

 

I think Brady has proven that he wasn't a system QB in New England.  However, that position wasn't taken without evidence.

 

Cassel was 100% why people like me existed. We just assumed that anybody at QB in New England would be a winner. Not so, it turns out.

[spartacat_12]

1 hour ago, IceCap said:

None of this is in any particular order. Brodeur has the wins and shutout records and eeks out a win in achievements over Roy with an equal number of Cups but also a gold medal. That being said, I can't say anyone who says Roy is better is wrong.

 

Roy actually won 4 Cups, and Brodeur won 3. Roy is also the only player in the history of the league with 3 Conn Smythes, whereas Brodeur never won any (although he was definitely the Devils' MVP in the '03 playoffs).

 

The fact that Roy carried 2 Habs teams to Cups that they really didn't have any business winning is why I personally put him at the top of the all time goalie rankings.

[IceCap]

53 minutes ago, spartacat_12 said:

 

Roy actually won 4 Cups, and Brodeur won 3. Roy is also the only player in the history of the league with 3 Conn Smythes, whereas Brodeur never won any (although he was definitely the Devils' MVP in the '03 playoffs).

 

The fact that Roy carried 2 Habs teams to Cups that they really didn't have any business winning is why I personally put him at the top of the all time goalie rankings.

I keep forgetting Roy was on that '86 Habs team. 

[OnWis97]

3 hours ago, CS85 said:

 

 

I think any of the "well he didn't retire with his team just at the end of his peak" arguments are pure trash.  Competitors can never quit if the game still brings joy and/or their bodies are up to task.   Emmett Smith petered out in Arizona.  Gretzky spun his tires on the Rangers and Blues.  Jerry Rice was a Seahawk.  Et al.

 

 

I feel like this is a contrarian take. It seems like most people praise a Barry Sanders exit and scoff at a Jerry Rice exit.  But to me it's a good contrarian take because 1) I like seeing the greats play even if they're not at their peak and 2) let them do what they want to do. Just because I don't like seeing pictures of MJ the Wizard* doesn't mean he should change his life choices.

*I actually don't care about that at all, but in theory...

[tBBP]

20 hours ago, CS85 said:

 

 

I think any of the "well he didn't retire with his team just at the end of his peak" arguments are pure trash.  Competitors can never quit if the game still brings joy and/or their bodies are up to task.   Emmett Smith petered out in Arizona.  Gretzky spun his tires on the Rangers and Blues.  Jerry Rice was a Seahawk.  Et al.

 

 

 

Don't forget about the 13 minutes he spent as a Denver Bronco (where he actually retired from)...

 

[sportsfan7]

Topic of tanking/parity comes up:

 

"I think European soccer does this, but I've always thought that (insert league here) should demote the worst team and promote the best minor league team after each season"

[DnBronc]

On 8/24/2021 at 11:17 AM, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

I was a Brady truther. Or at least someone who thought Brady and Belichick needed each other.

 

Turns out, nope! Now I'm over the Brady hate. He's the GOAT and, with the benefit of him being out of the AFC East, I can appreciate his career for what it is: the best ever.

 

See, this is why some people have a problem with Brady. It's because he is getting too much credit for his TEAM winning Super Bowls. He is a good QB, but I think that guys like him and Drew Brees are among the most overrated players ever because they have played their careers in an era where it is easier to play QB than it was in past eras.

 

In addition, there is one thing hanging over Brady's head that nobody wants to talk about anymore: SPYGATE!

 

[The_Admiral]

I think one can argue that Brady began as a system quarterback who was sheltered by a strong offensive line, a great defense, and a litany of goofy occurrences, then came into his own as the greatest quarterback ever later in his career. There were those years that the Patriots suddenly became really good on offense but horrible on defense and the joke was that Belichick got bored doing it the old way so he flipped it around. 

[BBTV]

12 hours ago, DnBronc said:

 

See, this is why some people have a problem with Brady. It's because he is getting too much credit for his TEAM winning Super Bowls. He is a good QB, but I think that guys like him and Drew Brees are among the most overrated players ever because they have played their careers in an era where it is easier to play QB than it was in past eras.

 

In addition, there is one thing hanging over Brady's head that nobody wants to talk about anymore: SPYGATE!

 

 

This is beyond absurd.  If you're posting an "unoriginal contrarian take" and not your own take, then this applies to people who share that opinion.  Otherwise, ridiculous isn't even strong enough.  Trying to find a word that's strong enough, but doesn't get me suspended.  How about  ?

 

While the rules do benefit QBs nowadays, how has Brady won SEVEN GODSDAMNED SUPERB OWLS and none of his contemporaries more than 2?  SEVEN.  If anyone can do it, why haven't they?  And he did it with essentially three different teams.   Not to mention the SBs that he got to.  

 

 

If we look historically, in the era where the rules may not have benefitted the offense as much, those teams/QBs had the advantage of playing in the pre-cap era, where great talent stayed together longer and the QBs had 5+ years of rapport with their skill players.  The 49ers were a great example of that.  Brady had to do it with a revolving door of players in key positions around him.

 

But that's mighty big of you to consider him "good".   Oh, and while Spygate was definitely a thing, he did it in the post spygate era too.  If anything, I should despise him / Belichick because my team was a victim of Spygate, but I can't deny greatness when I see it.  I'm not sure how old you are, so forgive me if I'm underestimating, but I saw Montana, Elway, Marino, et al in their primes.  They're also undeniably great, and it's admittedly tough to compare eras, but what Brady has done is simply on a different level.

 

[DCarp1231]

Pertaining to the Mahomes talk on Page 1,

 

Despite what he’s accomplished, he’s not quite HOF yet. He could stop playing today for whatever reason and there’s still no way he’d get into Canton. Or at the very least, not be considered for a while.

 

Will he get in assuming he continues to play at his current level or better the rest of his career and not fizzle out this season? Absolutely. 

[DnBronc]

12 hours ago, BBTV said:

While the rules do benefit QBs nowadays, how has Brady won SEVEN GODSDAMNED SUPERB OWLS and none of his contemporaries more than 2?  SEVEN.  If anyone can do it, why haven't they?  And he did it with essentially three different teams.   Not to mention the SBs that he got to.  

 

 Because other QB's didn't have coaches that were cheating. Also, Just winning a SB as a QB doesn't mean you are great. It is a team accomplishment.