The Airing of Grievances

[Sterling84]

So, most of you know I was hired to clean up the Raleigh Rebels logo a while back. I specify "clean up" because it's a distinctly different process to revise existing work, compared to coming up with a concept from scratch. I'm not terribly proud, nor at all embarrassed. It's just not "my" work is all.

Anyway, payment for that project was prompt and everything was cool. Shortly thereafter I was contacted about doing the same thing for the Ghostriders.

I did the work, some of my best considering the inherent limitations (and goofiness) of the name.

I never got paid for it though, and that was like last May or so.

I offer two disclaimers: First, Jon at E-Vivid has been for the most part super cool during this annoying time. I don't blame him for this.

Second, to my knowledge and to their credit, I don't believe the Ghostriders have actually used my image at all......yet. I could be wrong. There are precious few images from actual AIFL games to observe their uniforms and/or merchandise.

So I don't think there has been any Intel Prop. infringement.

It's just stupid is all. I agreed to this project for peanuts.....and I MEAN peanuts. The fact that this has been an insurmountable hurdle for the the organization is just ridiculous; But it also speaks as a warning to anyone taking on jobs from small schools or wee leagues. I should have known better but got lax because of how smooth the Rebels went.

This was kind of a last straw for me. I haven't helped out on the request boards since, don't answer my PMs and don't log onto AIM. I'm also only pursuing clients in established legit leagues and I'm not waivering on my price points at all. To the detriment of my steady flow of projects? Yeah. But I'm calmer and happier in general. Respect yourselves boys. Don't take crap lying down.

So anyway, wanted to show you the work at least.

*EDIT, I should have specified. Why start this thread? I dunno. One, I liked the logo and wanted to share. Two, I don't expect payment nor is the agreed upon sum worth pursuing, so I guess this is just a concept now. No bitter revenge intended. I'm just out of options so screw it.

[Hat Boy]

That is nice work, S84. You made a respectable logo out of a name like Ghost Riders. I am sorry that the organization screwed you.

So, after the airing of greivances, can we start the feats of strength?

[slapshot]

Damn!

Just out of curiosity, would you have put the city name into the logo as well, and where would you have placed it?

And I'll bring the pole.

[Sterling84]

Damn!

Just out of curiosity, would you have put the city name into the logo as well, and where would you have placed it?

Umm, yeah. If they'd ever decided on a city name. Sure.

I dunno where it would go. Beneath? They wanted a football in it..........ya know. So you'd know if was a football team.

[doafhat]

Until you pin me, Festivus is not over!

Take him, Georgie!

[chakfu]

that's a great design though...

[andrewharrington]

That's really nice, Sterling. Cool text. Is it a custom typeface? It's one of the few mostly symmetrical logos I've seen that works well, in my opinion. I'm in kind of a similar boat with the Richmond Ravage thing. Communication is pretty choppy, and I'm doing the work for two years of royalties. I'm kinda skeptical, but I'm gonna roll the dice since it was a "clean-up" job like you've done here. According to the owner, I also get one of every piece of merch they make with the logo on it, including a jersey, so I might end up with a sweet wardrobe if all goes well at least.

[flynnagain]

nice ghostrider logo...sad to hear you got ripped off.....word of advice.....in this day and age it is easy to have money wired to one's account.....if the #^%*&$%^ can't do that than I would think twice about sending the vectors.....but hey, I was in your same position last year and it is always a tough thing to deal with

[Sterling84]

That's really nice, Sterling. Cool text. Is it a custom typeface? It's one of the few mostly symmetrical logos I've seen that works well, in my opinion. I'm in kind of a similar boat with the Richmond Ravage thing. Communication is pretty choppy, and I'm doing the work for two years of royalties. I'm kinda skeptical, but I'm gonna roll the dice since it was a "clean-up" job like you've done here. According to the owner, I also get one of every piece of merch they make with the logo on it, including a jersey, so I might end up with a sweet wardrobe if all goes well at least.

I dunno. Some font. I usually start with an existing font and mess with it to suit my needs. Text is my weak point.

Good luck with the Ravage man!

nice ghostrider logo...sad to hear you got ripped off.....word of advice.....in this day and age it is easy to have money wired to one's account.....if the #^%*&$%^ can't do that than I would think twice about sending the vectors.....but hey, I was in your same position last year and it is always a tough thing to deal with

Thanks Flynny! Whatever happened I don't think it was money transfer that was the problem. If you don't have enough ON HAND to cover what I asked for........in quarters even, then I question the stability of your team.

And I honestly can't remember if I DID send the vectors. I feel like I didn't. Don't remember.

Anyway, Thanks again guys.

[creativelysain]

I've had these same kind of problems in the past 6 months. I guess for me it was just part of the learning experience, of what, and how to go about this business. It's tough, and a shame that it happens, but, that's life.

I did some work for a team, and it was finailized and everything, they say, a check is on it's way shortly (should of had them wire the money), I wait, 3 weeks, nothing. I notify them, they say, sorry, we've been bsuy, we'll get you the money soon, and add 10%. YAY! I thought, but, I wait 2 more weeks, nothing. I talk to them again, and they say the team isn't going to work and they aren't going to use my logos.

I did all that work for nothing, but should have gotten compensated anyways, if they used it or not.

That's like telling a building contractor, I want a house, then saying when you're done...oops, not gonna use it, so I don't have to pay. There are lessons to be learned everywhere, you just sometimes have to be really up front with people, and let them know your processes.

Sorry for the whole rant, but it's good to let all that frustration out .

[GMac]

That's really nice, Sterling. Cool text. Is it a custom typeface? It's one of the few mostly symmetrical logos I've seen that works well, in my opinion. I'm in kind of a similar boat with the Richmond Ravage thing. Communication is pretty choppy, and I'm doing the work for two years of royalties. I'm kinda skeptical, but I'm gonna roll the dice since it was a "clean-up" job like you've done here. According to the owner, I also get one of every piece of merch they make with the logo on it, including a jersey, so I might end up with a sweet wardrobe if all goes well at least.

I dunno. Some font. I usually start with an existing font and mess with it to suit my needs. Text is my weak point.

Good luck with the Ravage man!

nice ghostrider logo...sad to hear you got ripped off.....word of advice.....in this day and age it is easy to have money wired to one's account.....if the #^%*&$%^ can't do that than I would think twice about sending the vectors.....but hey, I was in your same position last year and it is always a tough thing to deal with

Thanks Flynny! Whatever happened I don't think it was money transfer that was the problem. If you don't have enough ON HAND to cover what I asked for........in quarters even, then I question the stability of your team.

And I honestly can't remember if I DID send the vectors. I feel like I didn't. Don't remember.

Anyway, Thanks again guys.

The font you seak is called Ravenscroft... I used it for my saskatchewan knights design... yes E-vid set me up with the arenafootballradio.com people still waiting for my merchandise... sigh i just cant win when i do a design it seems...lol...

[Mings]

Yeah, I have the same problem. People wanting stuff done, we agree and all of that. I do it, they never send money. Its not cool. A member of these boards did it to me 2 months ago. Thats alright though, I never send the vectors until I get payment.

That and now I have a good contract that my mom's lawyer drew up for me. Its always good when a lawyer does something for ya for free (friend of the family)

[Sec19Row53]

How frequently do those of you "in the business" ask for a percentage of the costs up front? That would seem to be a partial answer to your troubles.

[creativelysain]

Well, now, I ask for 33% up front.

[pcgd]

I think 50% isn't too much to ask at all.

[Geoff]

The Ghostriders haven't used that logo, although they should. After they pay you of course.

[KCScout76]

Sterling,

Your a man among boys in the graphic world of logos - there are others, but I am always amazed by your talent and the work you do. I still think you and Nitroseed would make an awesome team, but that's my opinon.

There are a lot of very good graphic artists who make up this site, and by no means am I trying to slight their wonderful talents. Just wanted to praise your work, especially the 'ghostrider' logo - I look forward to seeing more of your work through the years.

I do feel your pain for doing work that you were not properly compensated for.

I hope one day to hire you for a graphics job and pay you well for your time.

Ben Barnes did a great job for me last Spring and he did great work. I have always felt his talent was twice what I paid him - but he to will be rewarded in the future for his talent. Hang there buddy!!!

Keep it the fine work Sterling

KCScout76

[Sterling84]

I noticed the Ghostriders finally got a logo. It looks possibly CCLSC work.

Anybody know if one of our own picked up where I left off?

[Stampman]

Hmm the logo they used doesn't look familiar to me, but who knows.

I do like yours better--the wordmark fits bettr, and there is actually riding being done.

I wonder what Marvel Comics thinks about the name?

(Oh wait--theirs is 2 words, this is one. )

Still nice work, and I would also like to add thanks to the request you filled for me a while back--which was a personal use only one--you said you put it together quickly--but it really works for me.

[Gothamite]

Don't know. It could be from around here.

I like yours better, though.