Oklahoma City . . . Sonics?

[tulanebc]

Damn, I did.....lol..that's freakin crazy.....haha

Actually, I was trying to show ya that I brought up the same point as you did, but I failed. Arghhh. You win, I digress. lol

[McCall]

Also, tulanebc, what's expansionism ?

[tulanebc]

Main Entry: ex·pan·sion·ism

Pronunciation: ik-'span-(t)-sh&-"ni-z&m

Function: noun

: a policy or practice of expansion and especially of territorial expansion by a nation, in this case, a league that has no business expanding at all as to dilute the already diluted talent pool.

- ex·pan·sion·ist /-'span(t)-sh(&-)nist/ noun

- expansionist also ex·pan·sion·is·tic /-"span(t)-sh&-'nis-tik/ adjective

:-D

[AceHawk447]

What's the latest on Emerald Downs? Best chance at this stage of the game, no?

SAVE THE SONICS, SAVE THE STORM!!!

[McCall]

What's the latest on Emerald Downs? Best chance at this stage of the game, no?

SAVE THE SONICS, SAVE THE STORM!!!

SAVE YOUR BREATH!

[rams80]

Not to get in a big thing here about "support", but let's not rehash sports reporter, talking head punditry heard on ESPN or the internet. Let's turn down the rhetoric. Admiral, to call the Hornets in New Orleans "a failure" is a stretch, and Rams80, this has not been "a failed experiment by the NBA" and they have not "been at the bottom since they showed up". TulaneBC is also a little off in his statement, "yet we still managed to draw better than about 4 or 5 other teams" (but what do you expect from a Tulane guy? ).

The stated numbers are like this:

2002-03: 15,650 avg. home attendance, (19th out of 29 in NBA) 47-35 record, lost to Philly in 6 first round of playoffs. Not bad, while there is a novelty factor as this was the return of NBA ball, it wasn't like we didn't already have a pro team and had this collective joyous reaction that we finally were in the "big leagues" as cities like Memphis and OKC (and earlier, Charlotte and Salt Lake and Sacramento and Orlando) had.

2003-04: 14,332 avg. home attendance (28th out of 29 in NBA) 41-41 record, lost to Miami in 7 first round of the playoffs. A very boring team with a lot of drama-- Mashburn was out pretty much the whole season, Baron Davis was malingering and doggin' it when he wasn't injured, and for some reason the team replaces Paul Silas with Tim Floyd as coach. WTF? Team finishes .500, yet still makes the playoffs as a five seed. A big let down after the previous year.

2004-05: 14,221 avg. home attendance (last in NBA, just behind who -- CHARLOTTE, with an expansion franchise pulling in an avg. of 14,431. No novelty at all there, I guess. Sound familiar?), 18-64 record. BAD TEAM. At one point this team was on watch to surpass the worst-ever NBA record. Third head coach in three years; our stars gone; players no one had ever heard of or have heard from since starting. I'm surprised that any team like that pulled in over 14,000 avg.

Looking at this in the same vein, during that same time several NBA teams consistently around (often less than) 15,000-- Atlanta, Orlando, Memphis, New Jersey, Charlotte. But do you call them "failures"? (well, maybe Atlanta ). But for some reason, everyone thinks that because we got a new team for the region, N.O was supposed to "pack the house", with an obviously declining team in terms of player personnel, and disarray in terms of coaching and management (Shinn was buying out his minority partner). And like I said before, this ain't a first-time thrill for us.

I'm very impressed how OKC folks supported the Hornets. But really, what else did you expect them to do? What fell in their lap was their shot at showing the world how they could support a "big league team". And make no mistake about it, it was a "tryout", not an award of a franchise. I think they passed their tryout with flying colors, and are on a lot of people's minds (Clay Bennett for one, obviously) as a site for relocation or expansion.

Long story short, I'm not making excuses. On the one hand, the New Orleans area is clearly not the most rabid basketball fan area, and never will be. Even if the team were fantastic and made it to the finals, they still wouldn't be in the top five in attendance (due to other teams with larger capacity arenas always selling out, a la Dallas and Detroit). Then again, neither is Atlanta nor was Miami (before they got really good) known for their support, yet no one talks of them as "failures" and speculates on them moving. And I tell you this-- if and when Kansas City gets a new franchise for their Sprint Arena, don't expect them to sell out every night. It's the same situation... I think we need to give it a few more years before we say that New Orleans is a "failure" or "doesn't deserve the franchise" or "doesn't support the franchise".

After all, like it or no, the bottom line is this is George Shinn's team, and as long as he's making money, he's happy.

Oh, and if anyone has anything to say or reference about the Jazz move and their supposed "lack of support", I'll save you the retort-- the Jazz had seasons where they were 5th, 6th, and 12th in the NBA in average attendance, and there were a whole other set of reasons for the move to Utah, as explained here: Everything you ever wanted to know about the move to Utah

Could you show me where the Hornets were in the "percentage of capacity" department those years?

The word failure may be strong, but...

New Orleans' population hasn't shown a sign of reaching pre-Katrina levels yet, and won't for years.

I'm sure that the local corporate presence (ie the folks with the money who can afford overpriced NBA tix) has also diminished greatly since the storm.

The team did not make a big local splash before the storm.

Bottom line, I think the Hornets are going to move again, probably as soon as the ADD this country has completely sets in over the hurricane.

[xyzzyva]

What's the latest on Emerald Downs? Best chance at this stage of the game, no?

SAVE THE SONICS, SAVE THE STORM!!!

SAVE YOUR BREATH!

¡SAVE THE CHEERLEADER, SAVE THE WORLD!

[buzzcut]

Bringing this back up to the 1st page, for it seems that there is a little controversy regarding the possible move. According to this Deadspin article, Clay Bennett and his Oklahoma buddies have been intending to move the Sonics to OKC all along. It may be interpreted as a misquote, but if I'm a Seattle resident, I'd be rushing out to get a Sonics ticket right away.

[tajmccall]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2972255

ESPN is picking it up, for what little its worth.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

It was on the front page of one of the local papers this morning: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/327379_sonx13.html

[rams80]

Bringing this back up to the 1st page, for it seems that there is a little controversy regarding the possible move. According to this Deadspin article, Clay Bennett and his Oklahoma buddies have been intending to move the Sonics to OKC all along. It may be interpreted as a misquote, but if I'm a Seattle resident, I'd be rushing out to get a Sonics ticket right away.

And this is a surprise to who precisely?

I thought the hole "Replace Key Arena" thing was just so they could have a paper trail to move.

[leedsunited]

The local perspective on the Sonics is pretty bleak. There is a lot of love for the Sonics, especially the Sonics of ago and not nearly as much for the present team. This city loves its basketball team, but also sees the writing on the wall. Clay Bennett is a complete tool and we all know he's trying to get out as fast as possible. The newest push is to try to get Bennett to leave the Seattle Storm behind. And really, when you've resigned yourself to just wanting the WNBA franchise, it's pretty bad.

That is bad. Eeeeeech, WNBA excitement, CATCH THE FEVER!

[jkrdevil]

I'm sure these comments thrill David Stern.

[Lee.]

As long as they don't try moving the team to Hamilton, all should be well.

Now, when do they change the team name to Rays?

[BB61]

As long as they don't try moving the team to Hamilton, all should be well.

Now, when do they change the team name to Rays?

Wyoming Marinerzzz anyone?

[Gary]

As long as they don't try moving the team to Hamilton, all should be well.

Now, when do they change the team name to Rays?

Wyoming Marinerzzz anyone?

Bad Name, the Phoenix Phoenix fits better

[Lee.]

As long as they don't try moving the team to Hamilton, all should be well.

Now, when do they change the team name to Rays?

Wyoming Marinerzzz anyone?

Ooooohh.....if only....

[DG_ThenNowForever]

From today's Seattle Times

City Council may pass law to force Sonics to stay

By Sharon Pian Chan

Seattle Times staff reporter

The Seattle City Council is considering passing a law to hold the Seattle Sonics owners to their lease at KeyArena and barring them from buying their way out of the contract.

Council members Richard McIver and Nick Licata are asking the city's lawyers to review the ordinance, modeled after Initiative 93, which a fan group hopes to place on the February ballot.

"We need to make it clear we don't want the owners to buy out of their contract," McIver said. "Maybe it will get the league to look at the market in Oklahoma and whether it can support a team." He plans to introduce the ordinance when the council meets next on Sept. 4.

Mayor Greg Nickels has said several times that he will hold the Sonics to their lease through September 2010.

Brian Robinson, co-founder of the fan group Save Our Sonics & Storm, which filed the initiative, said he's happy the council might adopt the measure without waiting for a public vote.

"There is universal support for this," he said. He said Sonics co-owner Aubrey McClendon's recent statement that the owners always intended to move the team to Oklahoma has galvanized public sentiment against allowing the teams to leave town easily.

The proposed law says the city cannot take any action that "would allow vacation of the leased premises before the end of the term of such lease."

Any Seattle citizen, the proposed language says, would have the right to challenge any action violating the ordinance.

Councilmember Sally Clark says she supports it. "I like the idea of saying, 'You signed a lease, and we expect you to be here until then.' "

I guess, in theory, I'd like the Sonics to stay, but not like this. I don't want to be Chicken Little about it, but I think a person has a right to be able to buy out their lease. I say this as a long-time renter. I'm currently month-to-month, but in the past, I have gotten out of a lease by paying extra. While it's possible that this law would apply only to sports teams and arenas, what's to keep it from extending to all landlord/tenant arrangements?

[rams80]

"We need to make it clear we don't want the owners to buy out of their contract," McIver said. "Maybe it will get the league to look at the market in Oklahoma and whether it can support a team." He plans to introduce the ordinance when the council meets next on Sept. 4.

*raises hand*

Did they not pay attention to the Hornets' attendance the last two seasons or something?

[leopard88]

From today's Seattle Times

City Council may pass law to force Sonics to stay

By Sharon Pian Chan

Seattle Times staff reporter

The Seattle City Council is considering passing a law to hold the Seattle Sonics owners to their lease at KeyArena and barring them from buying their way out of the contract.

Council members Richard McIver and Nick Licata are asking the city's lawyers to review the ordinance, modeled after Initiative 93, which a fan group hopes to place on the February ballot.

"We need to make it clear we don't want the owners to buy out of their contract," McIver said. "Maybe it will get the league to look at the market in Oklahoma and whether it can support a team." He plans to introduce the ordinance when the council meets next on Sept. 4.

Mayor Greg Nickels has said several times that he will hold the Sonics to their lease through September 2010.

Brian Robinson, co-founder of the fan group Save Our Sonics & Storm, which filed the initiative, said he's happy the council might adopt the measure without waiting for a public vote.

"There is universal support for this," he said. He said Sonics co-owner Aubrey McClendon's recent statement that the owners always intended to move the team to Oklahoma has galvanized public sentiment against allowing the teams to leave town easily.

The proposed law says the city cannot take any action that "would allow vacation of the leased premises before the end of the term of such lease."

Any Seattle citizen, the proposed language says, would have the right to challenge any action violating the ordinance.

Councilmember Sally Clark says she supports it. "I like the idea of saying, 'You signed a lease, and we expect you to be here until then.' "

I guess, in theory, I'd like the Sonics to stay, but not like this. I don't want to be Chicken Little about it, but I think a person has a right to be able to buy out their lease. I say this as a long-time renter. I'm currently month-to-month, but in the past, I have gotten out of a lease by paying extra. While it's possible that this law would apply only to sports teams and arenas, what's to keep it from extending to all landlord/tenant arrangements?

More to the point, if the lease includes an express buyout provision (and, for the record, I have no idea if it does because I have never followed this fight), I don't think a city ordinance could prevent the owners of the Sonics from exercising that right. Otherwise, you would be effectively renegotiating the terms of the lease.