Say it ain't so, Joe

[CS85]

The statue can go back up as soon as all Penn State fans sign an accord where they are willing to let their kids be molested by perverts, because putting that statue back up signifies the willingness of fans to turn a blind eye if it means football success.  Volunteers?

[Gothamite]

1 hour ago, Viola73 said:

The statue NEEDS to go back up as Joe was the only one at PSU to actually do anything that could have put Sandusky away early.

But it shouldn't go up right now.

It needs to go up after the 3 administrators trials. 

THEN they can put Joe's statue back up and also put another statue on campus...one with the 3 administrators turning their heads away from a small boy.....those are the ones who really looked away AND tried to cover it up. 

FACT!

 

 

Paterno was a willing member of the cover-up, who knew what Sandusky was doing and yet refused to wield any of his considerable power to stop him.

 

He was every bit as responsible as anyone else on that campus. 

 

Your argument is illuminating, though, and a perfect example of why we need to keep up the pressure on Penn State, lest they be allowed to rewrite history. 

[JayMac]

This thread really needs to be shut down. A bunch of liberal crusaders, who have never done a thing wrong, can judge anyone and everyone. Listen, I'm a Penn State alum and a big fan of the football program but I don't feel as though I am being biased. Once again, I'll say that the penalty levied upon them was substantial enough. The new regime is so far removed from the Joe Pa regime. You cannot penalize the school any further. It is a great institution. You are all running a smear campaign. Do I want the statue up? I couldn't care less about a statue. You can melt the statue for all I care. But please stop with the insults toward the school. It's a very shallow way of thinking. The school has done nothing but cooperate and has raised a great deal of money for victims of abuse. 

[Walter Sobchak]

37 minutes ago, jmac11281 said:

This thread really needs to be shut down. A bunch of liberal crusaders, who have never done a thing wrong, can judge anyone and everyone. Listen, I'm a Penn State alum and a big fan of the football program but I don't feel as though I am being biased. Once again, I'll say that the penalty levied upon them was substantial enough. The new regime is so far removed from the Joe Pa regime. You cannot penalize the school any further. It is a great institution. You are all running a smear campaign. Do I want the statue up? I couldn't care less about a statue. You can melt the statue for all I care. But please stop with the insults toward the school. It's a very shallow way of thinking. The school has done nothing but cooperate and has raised a great deal of money for victims of abuse. 

Right, because only a liberal crusader would think turning a blind eye to child molestation is a bad thing.

[OnWis97]

This story broke nearly five years ago and that is literally the first time I've seen someone attribute anyone's take to a political leaning.  On this board or anywhere else.  Since it is not really a political issue that probably makes sense.

 

"The rest of the country is hard on a program that essentially condoned child rape for decades and won't recognize that the team was really good.  Thanks Obama!"

 

In any case "I don't like the content" probably won't get the thread shut down.

[JayMac]

4 minutes ago, Walter Sobchak said:

Right, because only a liberal crusader would think turning a blind eye to child molestation is a bad thing.

No it's only the fact that none of you have ever done a thing wrong.

[JayMac]

All I am trying to say is you cannot speak for anyone at the school. Pennsylvania State University did nothing wrong. 

[DnBronc]

2 minutes ago, jmac11281 said:

All I am trying to say is you cannot speak for anyone at the school. Pennsylvania State University did nothing wrong. 

 

Say what? Didn't JoePa and Sandusky represent the university? Wasn't JoePa the god of Penn State? 

[JayMac]

11 minutes ago, Walter Sobchak said:

Right, because only a liberal crusader would think turning a blind eye to child molestation is a bad thing.

I didn't say Paterno wasn't wrong. He was wrong if he knew about these horrible things. But I guess since I'm an alumnus, I'm immoral.

[OnWis97]

1 hour ago, jmac11281 said:

No it's only the fact that none of you have ever done a thing wrong.

Just like those who condemned Ray Rice?  Or OJ?  Or that Stanford swimmer?  Yeah, I stole candy when I was seven and I lie to my mother to avoid fights.  But I am still quite comfortable condemning an institution tha turned its collective head to ruining the lives of children.  Oh, and I speed.

[JayMac]

1 minute ago, DnBronc said:

 

Say what? Didn't JoePa and Sandusky represent the university? Wasn't JoePa the god of Penn State? 

Not to me, he wasn't. He did many great things for the school but he was no god in my eyes.

[JayMac]

1 minute ago, OnWis97 said:

Just like those who condemned Ray Rice?  Or OJ?  Or that Stanford swimmer?  Yeah, I stole candy when J was seven and I lie to my mother to avoid fights.  But I am still quite comfortable condemning an institution tha turned its collective head to ruining the lives of children.  Oh, and I speed.

I speed too. I guess we have more in common than you think. 

[JayMac]

I just hope that if something like this happens to your school or favorite collegiate team, you are just as harsh. 

[CS85]

Nobody said to stop rooting for Penn State.  Go right ahead.  Be proud of your school.  Paterno forfeit the right to be defended when he looked away when Jerry Sandusky raped kids in the school facilities.  You can't defend that.  You can't defend him.  His football legacy exists and can't be redacted, but to say his iconography deserves restoration after such an utterly disgusting and disgraceful thing he let slide is wrong.

 

He took the express train to hell, and there's no reason to put a statue up so that kids in that whole brainwashed community can look up to a rape-enabling arrogant piece of  . 

 

I'm better than JoePa, and I'm better than you, if only because I don't defend the useless legacy of sports icons who were morally indifferent to the rape and abuse of children.

Don't vote.  Don't breed. 

[Cosmic]

At any given time, probably 99.99% of the people at Penn State were completely unaware of what was going on.  Paterno knew, and that's why he shouldn't be honored with a statue.  It's not a really a black mark on the school, but masses of people pretending that the bad stuff didn't happen turns into a mark on the school.

[IceCap]

Penn State as an institution and as a community would gain back a lot of this "respect" they seem to crave if they would collectively admit that Joe Paterno did wrong by those kids, admit that the school allowed football to trump human decency, and make it clear they're ready to stop fighting for Paterno's legacy and move on.

They haven't done any of that. If anything? Each new development shows that they've done the opposite.

 

27 minutes ago, jmac11281 said:

I just hope that if something like this happens to your school or favorite collegiate team, you are just as harsh. 

Oh trust me, I will be.

Thankfully the chances are slim, with my alma mater being in a country that doesn't let university football get to be so big that it's placed ahead of innocent children.

 

37 minutes ago, jmac11281 said:

All I am trying to say is you cannot speak for anyone at the school. Pennsylvania State University did nothing wrong. 

The school administration, in conjunction with Joe Paterno, initiated a cover-up to protect a known pedophile to avoid giving the football team a bad name.

Maybe the current administration is innocent of all of that, but the men who participated in the cover-up were PSU at the time. The school absolutely did something wrong.

 

35 minutes ago, jmac11281 said:

I didn't say Paterno wasn't wrong. He was wrong if he knew about these horrible things. But I guess since I'm an alumnus, I'm immoral.

No, you're not immoral for being a PSU alumnus. You would be immoral if you insisted that Paterno was a good man because he was a good football coach, despite his wrongdoings. You would be immoral if you continued to deny your university's culpability in covering up Sandusky's crimes.

[BBTV]

1 hour ago, jmac11281 said:

No it's only the fact that none of you have ever done a thing wrong.

 

I've never done anything as wrong as letting childrens' lives be ruined by a child molester.  Don't forget, that's the crime we're talking about here.  Your insinuation is insulting.

 

1 hour ago, jmac11281 said:

All I am trying to say is you cannot speak for anyone at the school. Pennsylvania State University did nothing wrong. 

 

That is a factually inaccurate statement.  It's be proven that the University did a lot wrong.  You claim to be unbiased, but only someone with total blinders could make that statement.

 

1 hour ago, jmac11281 said:

I didn't say Paterno wasn't wrong. He was wrong if he knew about these horrible things. But I guess since I'm an alumnus, I'm immoral.

 

You're not immoral just because you're an alumnus.  If you think that he should be honored, than yes, you are immoral.  

 

Your statements about this being a political thing, about this being about liberal crusaders, about how nobody can say anything unless they've never done anything wrong, embodies literally the exact mentality that has made Penn State a national embarrassment.  

 

It's the school that (despite there being a lot of better ones in the state) represents my state, and I defended (and still do) the students who "get it" but are painted with the same broad brush as the paterno apologists.  Your posts aren't worth defending, because it's clear that you don't "get it".  THIS IS NOT ABOUT PUNISHING THE GODSDAMNED SCHOOL - it's about people's pleas to HONOR A MAN WHO ALLOWED KIDS' LIVES TO BE RUINED FOR DECADES.

[JayMac]

I NEVER said that the man should be honored. I do get it. The football program was put before the lives of innocent children. Sandusky did unspeakable things. Administration I new about it and did little to nothing. But the GODSDAMNED SCHOOL WAS BEING PUNISHED in the process by opinion of the masses. So please don't tell me I don't "get it". It's insulting. I do get it. I am not a typical Penn Stater. I didn't idolize the football coach. Each and every administrator that helped cover it up should be punished appropriately. I'm really not trying to fight anyone on this thread. I'm just tired of tired of people who are continuing to drag the school through the mud. To some, I feel as if I should be embarrassed that I went to the school. You have no idea some of the things said to me once word came out about it. By the way, I have a family member who was sexually abused. Trust me, I get that the victims' lives will never be the same. 

[OnWis97]

You seem to be rooted in reality on Paterno himself.  And, of course, on everyone in the know.  You are not the one that came here and said the statue should go up.  And I believe that you "get" that the victims are more important than football.

 

And I acknowledge it's a tough position to be in. Unlike IceCap, I did go to a school where in theory this could happen.  And I'd have to quit the program unless a major cleansing was done...and I don't feel that such a cleansing can occur without some time off. 

 

That (along with the silly notion that this is about the libtards) is where you and I are not seeing eye-to-eye.  A person is smart; people are stupid.  And the people at Penn State got really, really stupid.  The frightening thing is that it went on for a long time.  And several people had at least an inkling of what was happening; not just that it had happened, but that it was still  happening.  And for that reason, I do believe it is Penn State's fault.  It was not an issue of "bad seeds" or people being "rogue" or "careless."  It was a cultural issue.  The culture was not only that winning was monumentally important, but the reputation of the program was monumentally important; above all else (a truly limitless "all else" as it turned out).  The reason I think the school (or, rather the Athletic Department) needed to be punished was not because current players or new coaches deserved it.  It was because keeping the culture intact was dangerous.  I question whether removing "the bad guys" really can change anything.  It's still an institution running on the tradition and momentum of putting that team first and, frankly, fearing that team.  Has that change?  I don't know.  But the efforts to make sure the program remains viable certainly have the potential to stifle that change. 

 

I'll tell you where you are kinda right; it was the wrong kind of punishment.  The NCAA had the unfortunate mix of wanting to hit them hard but not necessarily having the authority to do so.  So they sorta went "double-secret probation" on the sanctions.  It was like "this is even worse than buying a house for a player's parents...but not that much worse."  Then they pulled back on the punishment, making the NCAA seem even more impotent, and, frankly, confused about its role and who it is serving.

 

All that really changed here was that they took a step back.  They'll be able to get back to prominence.  They are still about the fourth most desired destination in the Big Ten for players.  What they really needed was to take some time off.  To restart fresh without that aura of dominance over the Athletic Department, university, and the Valley.  I really believe that.  It was not just the bad guys that allowed this; it was a culture that was practically begging for it.  Paterno was a part of it, but I have to think it still lingers.  "419."

 

And really, it would have been a great time to set some deterrent.  "Loss of institutional control."  Ya think?  Any program that will go to those lengths and cover up that kind of thing needs to be shut down. 

 

Regarding the alums and fans...when this first came out, it never occurred to me to feel anything negative toward them.  But the response I've seen has been embarrassing. You provide a good caution, though.  It's not fair to think that of everyone...in that case it is the "bad apples" that stand out.  There is some unfairness there and we should all give a resident of the area and an alum of the school a fair shake.  

[Viola73]

On July 9, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Harmening said:

 

Oh please.  The guy knew about this crap YEARS before it was exposed, and kept this creepy :censored:er on his staff with access to the school's buildings.

Proof?