2012-13 NBA Season Thread

[CS85]

While I would be pretty pissed off I was paying to see this game, I enjoy the fact that Pop is doing it. Stern can go screw himself, run your team the way you want.

[The_Admiral]

Right, but I'm saying I see where Stern is coming from in that it's one thing for star players to be gametime scratches and another for them to have never set foot in the gym because they got the night off. It's a real grey area for sure, but it just Looks Bad to present a game where four of the starters were asked not to show up.

[NJTank]

well the spurs had a chance to win so Stern should just shut up

[ninersdd]

I remember they did this last year quite a bit, but that was because of the super compressed schedule. I guess they're still doing it then this year.

[Cujo]

How is this any different from teams (in all sports) who bench the entire starting roster once a division in clinched? Tickets still get sold. Some fans are disappointed. It happens.

If Pop wants to "toughen up" his young players on the road vs. the mighty Heat to prepare for the future, while resting aging stars, is just fine in my book. Hell, the Spurs still played pretty damn well.

[Kramerica Industries]

...and that's, in no small part, due to the fact that Pop is an excellent coach. There is a reason why Pop oversaw David Robinson's retirement and the team was back on the championship podium two seasons later. He's the best in the business at cultivating deep benches.

[pmoehrin]

The issue here I think is two fold.

One of the problems which is the league's fault which is how the liberal the DL is. You can list a guy with a torn ACL as being day to day. You can't set up a system where teams and coaches can be secretive about who's really hurt and then complain about it when teams take advantage of it. And in part I think that's what the NBA is doing here. If I were dictator of the NBA that day to day DL listing would be gone. Minimum DL listing I think should be around five games. You sit out a player and you don't DL him, you should only be allowed to dress 11 guys that night.

The one thing you can put on the Spurs though is the fact that healthy players didn't even make the road trip. If you want to make healthy scratches, fine, but I think the NBA is within their rights to say those guys still need to be on that plane and making that road trip. That road grind is part of the season and if you have players that can't handle it, then they shouldn't be playing in the NBA. So from that angle I do think the NBA and David Stern have a point. Teams have done this before, but maybe memo's sent out saying if this continues disciplinary action will be taking. I don't know. If it was a home game I don't think the NBA could have said anything, but the fact that healthy players didn't even bother to make the trip I think gives them ground to go after the Spurs.

[The Six]

Right, but I'm saying I see where Stern is coming from in that it's one thing for star players to be gametime scratches and another for them to have never set foot in the gym because they got the night off. It's a real grey area for sure, but it just Looks Bad to present a game where four of the starters were asked not to show up.

Where he's coming from is he's butthurt his indentured servants won't dance for him on national TV, and you know that.

[The_Admiral]

Striking the "indentured servant" part, is such blatant sandbagging in a late-November national telecast not a good reason for a hurting butt?

[NJTank]

Striking the "indentured servant" part, is such blatant sandbagging in a late-November national telecast not a good reason for a hurting butt?

What sandbag the Spurs were in the game all the way, Popovich is focused more on the marathon than one Thursday Night sprint, he knows what is best for his team long term and he made the right move, its just Too :censored:ing Bad GI that it was on TNT and David Stern needs to shut up.

[The_Admiral]

No, he doesn't. The NBA is still, in some sense, in the business of staging professional basketball games for the entertainment of paying customers. You can explain away star players being hurt as a natural consequence of sports. Sending starters en masse--remember, we're not talking just one guy here--back home to rest up borders on compromising the integrity of a given contest. That the Spurs were still competitive without their starters was a happy accident; most teams that pulled that stunt would get plastered. I know there are plenty of merits to what Popovich did, but this isn't as cut and dried as "herp derp that fuhrer Stern is at it again" like most of the internet wants it to be.

[ESTONES6]

Should he have done it on a Thursday night game against the defending champs? Probably not, but I am so glad he did. I love this sort of stuff with Pop. Just like when he fouled Shaq in the first 10 seconds of a game back when Shaq was crying about the Hack-a-Shaq game plan. Yes, this is a business, but a coach and an organization should be able to determine who plays and for how long. The NBA isn't paying these players salaries. They get paid by the owner, via the fans. I'd be willing to bet the 99.99% of Spurs fans would rather go to a Spurs game and not see the Big 3 play, then come down to game 82, with Duncan, Manu, and Parker completely gassed or injured.

Kudos to Pop.

[The_Admiral]

The NBA isn't paying these players salaries. They get paid by the owner, via the fans.

...yes, which is why the commissioner made an example of the Spurs to keep the practice from becoming commonplace. You can't let this go and establish a culture of "come see the stars of the game! Unless Coach sends them halfway across the continent well before warmups even start!" Obviously, Stern doesn't want there to be such clear-cut dead spots on a schedule, because that means unhappy fans, unhappy customers. Like I said, guys getting hurt happens. People understand that. People, except for the indefatigable Stern haters and/or Popovich ballwashers around here, I guess, have less understanding for "well, it's our third game in four days, guys are sore, so I just sent 'em all home."

We've talked at great length here about how basketball relies on the primacy of star players in unavoidable mathematical ways that the other team sports can't. This isn't the same as a Sunday lineup in baseball.

[HedleyLamarr]

The only expectation fans should have about purchasing tickets to a game is that they have a guaranteed seat to watch the game.

It may suck, but a fan assumes all risks when it comes to purchasing tickets, in that there's the knowledge that they might not get to see certain players for as long (or at all) due to the nature of the business, whether it be coaching decisions, injuries, disciplinary actions, etc.

[NJTank]

No, he doesn't. The NBA is still, in some sense, in the business of staging professional basketball games for the entertainment of paying customers. You can explain away star players being hurt as a natural consequence of sports. Sending starters en masse--remember, we're not talking just one guy here--back home to rest up borders on compromising the integrity of a given contest. That the Spurs were still competitive without their starters was a happy accident; most teams that pulled that stunt would get plastered. I know there are plenty of merits to what Popovich did, but this isn't as cut and dried as "herp derp that fuhrer Stern is at it again" like most of the internet wants it to be.

And Greg Popovich is in the buisness of winning championships and he thinks it is best to give his players a night off here and there to surrive the marathon of an 82 game season

[OnWis97]

No, he doesn't. The NBA is still, in some sense, in the business of staging professional basketball games for the entertainment of paying customers. You can explain away star players being hurt as a natural consequence of sports. Sending starters en masse--remember, we're not talking just one guy here--back home to rest up borders on compromising the integrity of a given contest. That the Spurs were still competitive without their starters was a happy accident; most teams that pulled that stunt would get plastered. I know there are plenty of merits to what Popovich did, but this isn't as cut and dried as "herp derp that fuhrer Stern is at it again" like most of the internet wants it to be.

And Greg Popovich is in the buisness of winning championships and he thinks it is best to give his players a night off here and there to surrive the marathon of an 82 game season

Neither of these views is incorrect, which is why this is so interesting.

I go to a very rare NBA game and when I do, my team is usally one of those "go to see the other team" teams. In fact one rare game last year was against the Spurs. Parker was hurt, which I accept as a reality. But I admit, I'd have been pretty upset if they'd rested all their stars. Add to that the "premium" ticket pricing. The Spurs because of their star power are probably a "top tier" price for all teams that have that kind of pricing and its because of the very players that were left at home. So fans pay for a "gold" game and get a "value" game, which certainly has some unfairness.

That said, I agree with Tank that Pop was being smart. I guess he planned this in the summer when he saw the schedule.

Unless there is a rule against this, I'd rather not see Stern flash his power here. Maybe the league needs a rule on healthy scratches for next year; you don't want to upset your customers by making this a regular occurrence.

[Lights Out]

Stern has got to go. It's not enough that he subjects every team to the whims of biased and outright bad officials with way too much control over games, now he wants to essentially coach every team too? What's next, is he going to ban teams from having bench players so the stars have to be on screen all the time?

It's Stern's job to run the league. It's not Stern's job to set lineups and rotations, and it's not Stern's job to control the outcome of every game in ways he thinks are most conducive to ratings.

Granted, I think the "unfair schedule" whining from Spurs fans is idiotic. Everybody has parts of their schedule they can point to that seem unfair. My Clippers had arguably the toughest start to the season competition-wise and still have the yearly hellish midseason Grammys road trip looming large over our schedule, for example. That's a dumb reason to give for resting your players, especially since the obvious and better reason is that they're old and need rest.

[Lights Out]

...yes, which is why the commissioner made an example of the Spurs to keep the practice from becoming commonplace.

Too late, it already is commonplace. I'm pretty sure Spoelstra and Doc Rivers have done the same thing lately. Pat Riley used to rest his stars near the end of the season.

You can't let this go and establish a culture of "come see the stars of the game! Unless Coach sends them halfway across the continent well before warmups even start!"

Also too late. Stern's let it go countless times, suggesting that Pop isn't actually, you know, breaking a rule by doing this. You can't come down on this and establish a culture of "come see the players Stern is forcing to show up tonight! Outcome brought to you by Stern (and his refs)!"

I'm not really sure who's unhappy here. Heat fans got to see their Big Three. Spurs fans are used to Pop's strategies by now and the majority of them support him. Neutral fans got to see a competitive game. Seems to me that the only one unhappy is Stern because TNT didn't get to show San Antonio's Big Three that Stern doesn't market anyway. It makes no sense.

If you're going to whine about one of Popovich's strategies, "hack-a-Shaq" is the worst. That legitimately slows games down to a crawl and ruins the viewing experience for everyone.

[pmoehrin]

Unless there is a rule against this, I'd rather not see Stern flash his power here. Maybe the league needs a rule on healthy scratches for next year; you don't want to upset your customers by making this a regular occurrence.

The core problem I see with this is the system. I get the whole buyer beware thing, but the NBA is the only major league where this is consistently a problem. Teams lie constantly about the health of their players. That is to be expected in any sport. But the NBA takes it to another level. Just look at what happened with Jeremey Lin. He was supposed to come back in two weeks and wound up missing the rest of the regular season and all of the postseason. The Knicks knew he was hurt, but they didn't want people to think he wasn't going to play because of the ratings he was bringing them. Its the only league where you get that and its because of the DL system they have set up. But that's the way the NBA wants it because they're a superstar league that relies on only a handful of players to produce their ratings/ticket sales.

As I said earlier I think David Stern is within his rights to go after the Spurs for not putting the players on the plane, which I think should result in a small fine. But that's it. To say that the Spurs weren't putting forth their best effort for one game and it should be held against them simply because it was on National TV is something the NBA has no right to complain about because this is the system they want and in this case I would say league beware. If they don't like then adopt a DL system similar to baseball. There's minimum numbers of days somebody can be listed on the DL and If a guy isn't on the DL then he's considered active.

[Kramerica Industries]

I don't really agree with the ideology of "watching the other teams stars" being as strong as it's being made out to be, in this case, because this isn't the 1980s anymore. There are cable packages and NBA League Pass which are cheaper than single-game tickets, and you can see the others teams stars whenever and wherever you'd like, for the most part. That, and in this particular case, we're talking about a game in Miami.

1) Miami is the defending champions and probably the best team again this year. They have Lebron, DWade, and Bosh. That's starpower a-plenty on a given night.

2) It's Miami. That city is notorious for poor attendance at their teams games.

I dunno, maybe because I don't live in an NBA city and don't have a favourite NBA team, I don't understand the appeal of the rare visits of other teams and their stars. If it makes any jilted Heat fans feel any better, however, there's a pretty decent chance Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili will step foot in Miami in June.