Charlotte Hornets?

[rams80]

I grew up close to Charlotte and remember when they came into existence. The notion that there is something sacrosanct about the original Hornets identity is almost as crazy as the acrimony over whether Horncats/Bobnets are or aren't a successor to the original team. In any event, while I am glad the name and colors are being reintroduced in Charlotte I would hope they soft-sell any other connections to the prior Hornets incarnation since it inevitably reminds me of George Shinn, the proto-Sterling mysognist owner.

I can agree with that. And again, if they want to use the Hornets name and colour scheme, that's cool. It's the re-writing of history that bothers me.

I also don't get the appeal behind the Hornets name and identity. The Revolutionary War thing always seemed silly because the city's named after British royalty. The team itself never accomplished anything of note. Yeah, the Bobcats sucked wind but the name made sense in that it seemed regionally appropriate and they had a unique look at first. I guess I just don't get the appeal and nostalgia behind the Hornets name. You want to continue the proud tradition of never making it past the second round of the playoffs? At least there's a NBA Championship up for grabs in the Supersonics/Thunder debate...

In their defense, the Bobcats never even won a playoff game.

[jakepled]

The NBA is simply doing what they should've done in '02.

They're simply saying when New Orleans relocated they became an entirely new franchise. The old team stays behind.

This is really making people upset.

Good.

Do you know why it's getting people upset? It's because this whole thing is an exercise in massive delusional group think. It's an entire fanbase wilfully ignoring reality. It's bad enough that the actual history of the game is being tampered with. It's made worse by a large group of people collectively closing their eyes and humming really loud, hoping if they do it hard enough history will somehow contort itself into their desired shape.

I don't care about the team reusing the Hornets name, jake. I care about the integrity of the past. Which as been violated so an entire fanbase can play make-believe.

So then the Clippers, who used to be the Celtics until 1978, have 13 NBA titles in their illustrious history, right?

Nah. The franchises and organizations stayed intact even if the personnel changed. Nice try moving the goalposts though.

Charlotte is the largest city in NC....

The largest city in a state is called the Queen City....

Derp

[guest23]

The city and its fans now have a history of giving up on 2 expansion franchises. Granted they were both in protest to incompetent ownership. I suppose the 3rd time is the charm for the nba and basketball fans to figure this experiment out. If this one fails charlotte will earn the reputation of America's #2 Worst Pro Sports City right behind ATL.

[rams80]

KUDOS to the NBA and both franchises for doing the right thing. I've long been in favor of the City and its people claiming what happened in their city. Some call it revisionist history but I'd say trying to claim the players and championships from another city as your own is just as revisionist.

Let the histories remain in the places where the history was actually made.

Why should sports fans be treated like historically marginalized minorities and communities again?

[Sport]

I also don't get the appeal behind the Hornets name and identity.

Yeah, but they never accomplished anything. It's like if Atlanta got another NHL team and they desperate fought for the rights to the Atlanta Thrashers' identity and records.

I think it's because the Hornets symbolize the city of Charlotte becoming a major league city. The team put the city on the map and even if they didn't win big they still accomplished a lot and were a big part of the NBA at that time. This was before the NFL's Panthers. Their merchandise was a huge seller in the 90's. It's a huge seller in throwback merchandise. It's not analogous to the Thrashers because Atlanta never latched onto the team the way Charlotte latched onto the Hornets and fans outside of the city never took to the Thrashers the way fans outside of Charlotte took to the Hornets. There is something to this. They were a cultural phenomenon that the Thrashers never were. The Thrashers don't have grantland articles about their starter jackets http://grantland.com/the-triangle/charlotte-hornets-starter-jackets-an-appreciation/. for instance.

As for why the Hornets identity is better than the Bobcats. That's not even hard. The Bobcats are named the Bobcats because Bob Johnson was their original owner. It was a name fueled by one man's ego. A man who wasn't even the owner for very long. The logo was amateurish and the colors were too similar to a more established team called the New York Knicks. Virtually any identity is better than the generic college garbage that was the Charlotte Bobcats identity. That the Hornets is replacing it is even better.

You don't like the Charlotte Hornets identity? You got a problem with the Mighty Ducks? You weren't a child of the 90's. You're a time traveler.

[Xist2inspire]

There really should be a new rule, across all sports, that once a team moves, the identity is dead. The current team has to change its name upon relocation, and the former city cannot reclaim that name should a franchise return there. A bit extreme, yes, but the mess that the Browns deal created has to stop somewhere.

In the MLS I believe the San Jose Earthquakes, Portland Timbers, Seattle Sounders and Vancouver Whitecaps all acknowledge and embrace their histories even though all have operated as several different franchises in several different leagues since the 70s. Makes sense since many of the same fans that were cheering and crying with the Sounders in '74 are still cheering and crying with them in 2014.

That's nice, but note that I said if a team "moves," not "folded." If any of the original versions of those franchises moved to another city, kept the name for about 3+ years, then rebranded and are still around today, and the history books don't acknowledge that, then that's not good at all. If at any point did any of those franchise move away, became something different, then folded, and the history books didn't acknowledge that, something's wrong. If the history books treat any of those franchises as a single, unbroken franchise rather than the heirs to a legacy, then they're wrong.

I think a lot of people are missing the point here. Nobody's trying to say that Charlotte fans can't honor the old Hornets. But be honest about it. The Charlotte Hornets did not close up shop in 2002 and return, unchanged, in 2014. Shinn happened, the New Orleans Hornets happened, the Charlotte Bobcats happened. There's no use in pretending it didn't.

[DaytonBlue]

I think soon they'll have to start having two sets of records, one for records for a city and one for records for a franchises. That's how I would handle it if I were the Hornets. I think if I was a Hornets fan I would want people to know how the original franchise was whisked away.

[Xist2inspire]

There really should be a new rule, across all sports, that once a team moves, the identity is dead. The current team has to change its name upon relocation, and the former city cannot reclaim that name should a franchise return there. A bit extreme, yes, but the mess that the Browns deal created has to stop somewhere.

I like being a Rams fan, so no, lets not do that.

That's if the Rams move, though.

And do you like being a Rams fan, or a St. Louis football team fan? Is your loyalty attached to the identity, or the city? Those are questions that situations like these bring up.

[rams80]

The NBA is simply doing what they should've done in '02.

They're simply saying when New Orleans relocated they became an entirely new franchise. The old team stays behind.

This is really making people upset.

Good.

Do you know why it's getting people upset? It's because this whole thing is an exercise in massive delusional group think. It's an entire fanbase wilfully ignoring reality. It's bad enough that the actual history of the game is being tampered with. It's made worse by a large group of people collectively closing their eyes and humming really loud, hoping if they do it hard enough history will somehow contort itself into their desired shape.

I don't care about the team reusing the Hornets name, jake. I care about the integrity of the past. Which as been violated so an entire fanbase can play make-believe.

So then the Clippers, who used to be the Celtics until 1978, have 13 NBA titles in their illustrious history, right?

Nah. The franchises and organizations stayed intact even if the personnel changed. Nice try moving the goalposts though.

Charlotte is the largest city in NC....

The largest city in a state is called the Queen City....

Derp

Except Cincinnati is the Queen City of Ohio and isn't the largest city in Ohio.

Now that's the kind of retcon that would make Hawkman's writers proud.

Again, your pissant city (and county, to reinforce the irony) is named after CHARLOTTE OF MECKLENBURG-STRELITZ, QUEEN OF GREAT BRITAIN AND IRELAND, ELECTRESS OF HANOVER (etc.) That's were the Queen City moniker came from.

That's where the moniker came from.

There really should be a new rule, across all sports, that once a team moves, the identity is dead. The current team has to change its name upon relocation, and the former city cannot reclaim that name should a franchise return there. A bit extreme, yes, but the mess that the Browns deal created has to stop somewhere.

I like being a Rams fan, so no, lets not do that.

That's if the Rams move, though.

And do you like being a Rams fan, or a St. Louis football team fan? Is your loyalty attached to the identity, or the city? Those are questions that situations like these bring up.

I like being a Rams fan. I will follow them anywhere.

[frosty06306]

Hey rams80, do you hate Charlotte and its inhabitants?

[JayMac]

I don't really care who's history is who's. But my two cents would be, a city should hold onto it's past. But I understand the other side of it too. Most importantly, since this is the sports logo section, I am most excited to see the jersey next month!

[rams80]

Hey rams80, do you hate Charlotte and its inhabitants?

I don't hate them. I do suspect they are secretly anglophiles and monarchists, but that is it.

That said, you have gotten everything you wanted. If Charlotte isn't a league leader in attendance from now until the heat death of the universe, the franchise should be taken away.

[jakepled]

The city and its fans now have a history of giving up on 2 expansion franchises. Granted they were both in protest to incompetent ownership. I suppose the 3rd time is the charm for the nba and basketball fans to figure this experiment out. If this one fails charlotte will earn the reputation of America's #2 Worst Pro Sports City right behind ATL.

Calling Charlotte a bad sports town is pretty stupid. The Hornets sold out every game for their first 10 seasons despite many losing seasons. The Carolina Panthers have sold out every single game in their 19 year history despite only having 4 winning seasons.

Charlotte sold out every game for a decade. Their reward for being passionate & loyal? The owner was caught in a sex scandal & then threatened to move the team or gut the roster indefinitely if they didn't give him money for a new arena. Charlotte told him to :censored: himself & he moved to New Orleans, where her lost the team to bankruptcy due to poor revenue.

When the new franchise came around the city was still hurt and upset over losing their team. Then Bob Johnson named the team after himself and hired all his buddies to run the team. The city never got behind it and told him to get lost.

Ever since MJ bought the team fans have began coming around. Note with the rebrand and Jordan's willingness to build a good team the fans will return. It'll be like the Hornets never left. Charlotte will pick up where they left off as one of the most passionate cities in the league.

No city would support the :censored: that Shinn & Johnson pulled.

[BShaw20]

MJ should move this team to Chicago, that would be awesome, and call it the Zephyrs.

[IceCap]

The NBA is simply doing what they should've done in '02.

They're simply saying when New Orleans relocated they became an entirely new franchise. The old team stays behind.

This is really making people upset.

Good.

Do you know why it's getting people upset? It's because this whole thing is an exercise in massive delusional group think. It's an entire fanbase wilfully ignoring reality. It's bad enough that the actual history of the game is being tampered with. It's made worse by a large group of people collectively closing their eyes and humming really loud, hoping if they do it hard enough history will somehow contort itself into their desired shape.

I don't care about the team reusing the Hornets name, jake. I care about the integrity of the past. Which as been violated so an entire fanbase can play make-believe.

So then the Clippers, who used to be the Celtics until 1978, have 13 NBA titles in their illustrious history, right?

Nah. The franchises and organizations stayed intact even if the personnel changed. Nice try moving the goalposts though.

Charlotte is the largest city in NC....

The largest city in a state is called the Queen City....

Derp

I think you missed the point entirely.

Besides, Charlotte's called "Queen City" because it's named after Queen Charlotte, wife of King George III. The guy the American revolutionaries rebelled against. So your "the name Hornets has Revolutionary War roots!" argument kind of falls flat.

[frosty06306]

Hey rams80, do you hate Charlotte and its inhabitants?

I don't hate them. I do suspect they are secretly anglophiles and monarchists, but that is it.

That said, you have gotten everything you wanted. If Charlotte isn't a league leader in attendance from now until the heat death of the universe, the franchise should be taken away.

Hmmmmmm OK then!

[jakepled]

An angry Canadian upset at this history move then says he doesn't understand the big deal with the Hornets moniker...

Charlotte Hornets were IT in the 90s. Their purple & teal bug was the hottest selling gear in the country. And the fans were the most passionate in the country.

It was a shortlived team in a small market but the Charlotte Hornets were incredibly popular. No city loved their team like Charlotte did.

[Sport]

The NBA is simply doing what they should've done in '02.

They're simply saying when New Orleans relocated they became an entirely new franchise. The old team stays behind.

This is really making people upset.

Good.

Do you know why it's getting people upset? It's because this whole thing is an exercise in massive delusional group think. It's an entire fanbase wilfully ignoring reality. It's bad enough that the actual history of the game is being tampered with. It's made worse by a large group of people collectively closing their eyes and humming really loud, hoping if they do it hard enough history will somehow contort itself into their desired shape.

I don't care about the team reusing the Hornets name, jake. I care about the integrity of the past. Which as been violated so an entire fanbase can play make-believe.

So then the Clippers, who used to be the Celtics until 1978, have 13 NBA titles in their illustrious history, right?

Nah. The franchises and organizations stayed intact even if the personnel changed. Nice try moving the goalposts though.

Charlotte is the largest city in NC....

The largest city in a state is called the Queen City....

Derp

I think you missed the point entirely.

Besides, Charlotte's called "Queen City" because it's named after Queen Charlotte, wife of King George III. The guy the American revolutionaries rebelled against. So your "the name Hornets has Revolutionary War roots!" argument kind of falls flat.

No it doesn't. A british general still said they were a "Hornet's nest of rebellion". The "Hornet's Nest" still became something of a civic nickname. That they didn't change the city's name doesn't mean that isn't true. What about the history of minor league baseball use?

Even if they're just named after Hornets because Hornets are cool and it has no connection to the city that's still 100X times better than being the Bobcats because a guy with a huge ego decided to name the team after himself.

[smith03]

I am glad the name the hornets is going back to charlotte but think people are just fooling themselves treating Hornets 2.0 as the same franchise as as the 1988-02 franchise that moved to New Orleans.

[hawk36]

It's so saddening that some people cannot see the historical crime being committed here by the NBA and the new Hornets. Enjoy the name; but don't mess with the facts of history. What they're doing is just foul.

What happened in Charlotte still happened in Charlotte. It's part of Charlotte's basketball history. I would argue that its a crime of history to pretend it didn't happen.