MJWalker45 Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 He says they may not be Division One, but they don't want to be called Division Two. And he makes a lengthy reference to the National and American Leagues having been two separate, competing major leagues for decades.Frankly, it's insane. It's not going to happen; they don't have enough to offer US Soccer to vault themselves into the top-tier. Better to focus on being a really great second-tier league, and watch out for a rising USL.Only New York could truly compete against MLS teams as far as player wages. Even with their own stadiums, most NASL teams would balk at bringing in a big name player unless they could guarantee he fit their plans for the team. Atlanta will either be moving or be consumed by the MLS in 2017, San Antonio can expand but most likely wouldn't add on to their stadium unless they were going to the MLS. Minnesota could follow Atlanta and be brought into MLS or disappear depending on who gets franchise 24. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Yeah, it's a pipe dream.I understand the USL wanting to reclaim the second-division status they used to have, but don't see where the NASL has any real shot to be more than they are right now. They can stabilize, be a very solid second division, but they're undeniably second division. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosrs1 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 I think it all depends on how you define "minor." If its anything not the established league, then yes NASL is a minor league. If its leagues that develop players for other leagues, then in no way are they minor league. They've (the league and its teams) have always maintained that their goal is to be the best league they can be. Right now that means 2nd division. They haven't out and said they want to apply for 1st division status, but it honestly wouldn't shock me if US Soccer approves the USL to be the 2nd division, that they would apply for 1st. I believe their take would be they are more like the ABA, the AFL, or the WHL. A alternate league that could prove to be real competition to the established league. They don't consider themselves minor by any means. That doesn't mean they hope there is a merger. Perhaps the opposite. I don't think they've ever discussed that. The only thing they've talked about is being a world class league and they support promotion and relegation. With them taking on the reserve teams for several MLS sides I think they'd stop at 2nd tier status. To pretend they weren't supporting MLS would be counterproductive to their working arrangements. I think MLS would be happy to assist them in earning second tier status just to help beef up their argument that the MLS is supporting soccer across the board, not just trying to stay on top.I think you misread that. The implication was that if USL applies for D2 that NASL might try for D1, not USL.USL is firmly entrenched at the minor league level now with the majority of their league made up of MLS affiliates and MLS farm teams. NASL in theory could try to move up, but seeing as they don't even meet the full D2 requirements yet I find it highly unlikely NASL would ever be able to make that jump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Which is why I think the NASL should focus on becoming a "true" Division 2 league, just a step below MLS, with competitive teams, deep pockets and the best players they can snag. Separate themselves from the low-level farm teams populating much of the USL right now. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportstar1212 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 The most likely scenario I see happening would be for top NASL teams to be just as good, if not better than MLS bottom feeders, and the two leagues start a promotion/relegation system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcgd Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Just to be clear, I don't think they should apply for D1. And I agree, no reason to be something you aren't. They can be the alternative MLS/USL pro. Build off being independent and not having the restrictions MLS has.I think part of the reason why the NASL isn't expanding at the same rate is the restrictions they have in regards to ownership value and opperating costs. It's not easy to find someone with $20 million that wants to own a 2nd division soccer team that is most likely going to lose money. Obviously $20 million is rich, but it's not flush a million down the toliet every year rich. From the expenses, If your an owner that has that value, why spend all that extra money when USL contracts are cheaper and your costs are lower because of smaller stadiums?I think as we watch the independent teams in USL do ok but not great this year, they'll understand the appeal of NASL a bit more. The NASL needs to do a better job of selling those differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norva Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 The most likely scenario I see happening would be for top NASL teams to be just as good, if not better than MLS bottom feeders, and the two leagues start a promotion/relegation system.No.Pro/rel will never happen here, thank goodness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosrs1 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 The most likely scenario I see happening would be for top NASL teams to be just as good, if not better than MLS bottom feeders, and the two leagues start a promotion/relegation system.Yeah that's not happening. MLS has it's lower league, and they're clearly setting up their system to mirror MLB/MiLB, NBA/NBADL, and NHL/AHL. The US is a franchise system country and no amount of dreaming about pro/rel is going to change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Pro/rel was already spectacularly unlikely, but these developments make it even more so. You'll never get there if the lower divisions are outright farm clubs, and if there's such a huge gulf between the first and second divisions. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnclearInitial Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Pro/rel was already spectacularly unlikely, but these developments make it even more so. You'll never get there if the lower divisions are outright farm clubs, and if there's such a huge gulf between the first and second divisions.I don't think farm club are a huge problem for pro/rel.After all, Spain has farm clubs that can get to the second division, and in Germany they can get to the third. The real reason pro/rel is unlikely is because it will be mighty hard to convince MLS owners to diminish the value of their franchise in the medium/short term Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DG_ThenNowForever Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Couldn't you do pro/rel between USL and NASL? 1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said: and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJWalker45 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 All three leagues would have to agree and I can't see MLS owners signing on to risk losing money in a second or third division. If I pay $100 million for my franchise and someone else pays $20 million, I want to avoid being in the same league. That's really the most likely sticking point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 And cities spending $200M to build a stadium for a major league franchise don't want to find themselves a minor-league town before it's even opened. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcgd Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Yeah, can't imagine any owners wanting to be in the same league as someone paying less than they did in expansion fees...Not disagreeing with you that they don't want the value of their teams going down, but the expansion fee argument won't hold water when a majority of the teams paid well less than the current rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-kj Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Shares of businesses cost different amounts at different times. Buy some t-shirts and stuff at KJ Shop! KJ Branded | Behance portfolio POTD 2013-08-22 On 7/14/2012 at 2:20 AM, tajmccall said: When it comes to style, ya'll really should listen to Kev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Exactly. I don't think City Football Group minded paying in 2013 twenty times what the Fire's owners paid in 1997. That's a far cry from a group in, say, Milwaukee buying an NASL franchise for $20M in 2017 and winning promotion to MLS the following year. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DG_ThenNowForever Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Right, but couldn't pro/rel work solely between USL and NASL?Granted, it would be kind of pointless without a top league to aspire to, and it would force USL to accept third tier status, but it would be kind of fun. 1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said: and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 No. It still couldn't work, because people and cities investing in the second division won't want to risk getting bumped down to the third. Not quite as steep a comedown as from MLS, perhaps, but still too much to stomach when you're putting in tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars. The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosrs1 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Pro/rel was already spectacularly unlikely, but these developments make it even more so.You'll never get there if the lower divisions are outright farm clubs, and if there's such a huge gulf between the first and second divisions.I don't think farm club are a huge problem for pro/rel.After all, Spain has farm clubs that can get to the second division, and in Germany they can get to the third. The real reason pro/rel is unlikely is because it will be mighty hard to convince MLS owners to diminish the value of their franchise in the medium/short termWell that and can you believe the not-gonna-happen scenario of a top league where New York has been relegated and a smaller town like Rochester is in the top flight? The US media and general public just wouldn't be able to take a league like that seriously.Right, but couldn't pro/rel work solely between USL and NASL?Granted, it would be kind of pointless without a top league to aspire to, and it would force USL to accept third tier status, but it would be kind of fun.Considering NASL was created out of rouge USL teams and the two management teams despise each other... not likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twi Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 To the surprise of no one, Iron Lion Firm once again destroyed personal property of another team's fans. This time against a tailgate set up in the parking lot. They weren't even playing Charleston, yet they destroyed some of the Battery fans' stuff. Will be interesting to see if there are any more issues this week, as those two teams, Houston, and NYC are playing a tournament. Edit: Appears it was Atlanta fans' stuff that was destroyed/stolen. The San Jose Ultras left/were asked to leave their match in Sacramento this weekend also. How the heck does diminishing another person's or group's enjoyment of a match enhance one's own? I HATE that crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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