NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[leopard88]

On 10/2/2021 at 10:20 PM, the admiral said:

 

The Bears are proposing a domed stadium with artificial grass, try to keep up

 

. . . and played on old school artificial turf for about 20 years (+/- and I don't feel like looking it up) after moving to Soldier Field.

[BBTV]

2 hours ago, Sec19Row53 said:

I guess this is just semantics - but the NFL doesn't consider the Packers a Milwaukee team. They are based in Green Bay, but Milwaukee gets the benefit of having the games broadcast. 

 

Those are two entirely different things. 

 

Forgive me if I missed part of the debate and if this is irrelevant info, but according to Wikipedia, the NFL considers the Packers market to include Milwaukee as well as Green Bay, which matters because Milwaukee would be included in a blackout despite being more than 75 miles away (and anything 75 miles from Milwaukee would be included as well.)

 

"An exception to the 75-mile rule is the Green Bay Packers' market area, which stretches out to both the Green Bay and Milwaukee television markets "

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_television_blackout_policies#Two-team_secondary_markets

[Sec19Row53]

34 minutes ago, BBTV said:

 

Forgive me if I missed part of the debate and if this is irrelevant info, but according to Wikipedia, the NFL considers the Packers market to include Milwaukee as well as Green Bay, which matters because Milwaukee would be included in a blackout despite being more than 75 miles away (and anything 75 miles from Milwaukee would be included as well.)

 

"An exception to the 75-mile rule is the Green Bay Packers' market area, which stretches out to both the Green Bay and Milwaukee television markets "

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_television_blackout_policies#Two-team_secondary_markets

Yep - that's all well and good. My initial objection was to the statement that the NFL considers the Packers a Milwaukee team. Semantics, but they're considered Green Bay's team, with the Milwaukee secondary market getting homefield consideration.

[BBTV]

3 hours ago, Sec19Row53 said:

Yep - that's all well and good. My initial objection was to the statement that the NFL considers the Packers a Milwaukee team. Semantics, but they're considered Green Bay's team, with the Milwaukee secondary market getting homefield consideration.

 

Oh I haven't seen anything that says that the Packers are 'Milwaukee's team'.  I'm interpreting the quoted line as that Milwaukee isn't a secondary market, but that Green Bay's home market includes Milwaukee.  So maybe it's kinda like both city's teams?  

 

"Though the city currently has no National Football League team, Milwaukee[1] is considered a home market[2] for the Green Bay Packers."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Bay_Packers_home_games_in_Milwaukee#:~:text=Though the city currently has,for the Green Bay Packers.

 

 

Then there's this (have to subscribe to read it, so I'm only posting what I can get out of the Google search result)
 

https://madison.com › wsj › sports › football › professional

 

"Dating to when the Packers split home games between Green Bay and Milwaukee, they're the only NFL team that has two home primary TV markets,"

 

So yeah it's semantics.  Does "home market" mean it's that city's team?  Or is it just a label that is meaningless for purposes other than TV blackouts?  We'll never know.

[The_Admiral]

Primary/secondary designations are meaningless in Wisconsin, where all the affiliates are showing every Packers game anyway. There are the far western counties that are part of the Twin Cities media market, and those will go Vikings over Packers when it comes down to one or the other, but even the Cities wind up airing Packers games for Minnesota when they can. (The Kenosha-to-Lake-Geneva Disputed Zone gets Chicago and Milwaukee TV stations, so everyone's happy.)

 

A more interesting case is Harrisburg, which the NFL has dictated must carry every Ravens road game to the exclusion of Steelers games, which most people in south-central PA would rather be watching. However, Harrisburg is closer to Baltimore (and DC) than it is to Pittsburgh, and there's nothing anyone can really do about it other than pay for Sunday Ticket.

[BBTV]

2 hours ago, the admiral said:

 

A more interesting case is Harrisburg, which the NFL has dictated must carry every Ravens road game to the exclusion of Steelers games, which most people in south-central PA would rather be watching. However, Harrisburg is closer to Baltimore (and DC) than it is to Pittsburgh, and there's nothing anyone can really do about it other than pay for Sunday Ticket.

 

At least as of the mid '90s there was somewhat of an Orioles and Washington Bullets fan base in the Harrisburg / south-central PA area.  I'm basing that solely on going to a sports-card convention there in '93 and all the people doing autographs were Orioles and Bullets (Tom Gugliota!)

 

But I doubt there's much - if any - of a Ravens base there.  Outside of the Delaware and maybe Lehigh Valley, PA is covered by the Steelers.

[Luigi74]

13 hours ago, the admiral said:

A more interesting case is Harrisburg, which the NFL has dictated must carry every Ravens road game to the exclusion of Steelers games, which most people in south-central PA would rather be watching. However, Harrisburg is closer to Baltimore (and DC) than it is to Pittsburgh, and there's nothing anyone can really do about it other than pay for Sunday Ticket.

I always assumed the NFL does this to help boost the number of Sunday Ticket subscribers.

[BBTV]

48 minutes ago, Luigi74 said:

I always assumed the NFL does this to help boost the number of Sunday Ticket subscribers.

 

These rules were in place long before Sunday Ticket was a thing.

[leopard88]

12 hours ago, BBTV said:

 

At least as of the mid '90s there was somewhat of an Orioles and Washington Bullets fan base in the Harrisburg / south-central PA area.  I'm basing that solely on going to a sports-card convention there in '93 and all the people doing autographs were Orioles and Bullets (Tom Gugliota!)

 

But I doubt there's much - if any - of a Ravens base there.  Outside of the Delaware and maybe Lehigh Valley, PA is covered by the Steelers.

 

York County has a lot of Maryland transplants and thus of lot of Ravens fans.  As far as I know there, are also still a few WFT stragglers left from the days when they held training camp in Carlisle.  Otherwise, Central PA is generally Steelers country.

 

As for baseball, I think it is still more Orioles territory than Pirates and Phillies, partly because of the transplants and partly because of the years of Orioles success in the 60s, 70s and 80s.

[The_Admiral]

My guy Ben Joravsky had a good piece in the Reader:

 

Quote

For real, Crain’s? You don’t know the answer to that question? C’mon, you’ve been covering the same handouts-to-the-rich, trickle-down-to-everyone-else economy I’ve been covering. So I think we all know who won’t be paying for the new stadium.

The Bears! The team on whose behalf it would be built.
...
 

The Bears are so cheap that Mike Ditka—I assume everyone at Crain’s knows who he is—once proclaimed that they throw nickels around like manhole covers.

Greatest line MAGA Mike ever uttered—almost enough to make me forgive him for all the right-wing drivel he’s uttered over the years.

He was talking about Papa Bear George Halas, who founded the team. But as any Bears player can tell you, it also applies to the McCaskeys, Halas’s descendants, who currently run the show over there.

That’s why I confidently predict that the Bears won’t offer a nickel—or manhole cover—for their new playpen. Even though, again, they’re the ones who will profit from it. 

No, the whole point of the Bears agreeing to buy Arlington International Racecourse is to fire up the bidding war between Arlington Heights and Chicago as to which set of saps will pick up the bill.

So, who’s going to pay for Papa Bear’s stadium? The property taxpayers in whichever city loses that bidding war. And by losing I mean “wins.”

At the moment, my money’s on Arlington Heights, as their city leaders seem to be frothing at the mouth at the prospect of wasting public dollars on a really bad football team.

And their means for paying for the stadium will probably be my old friend—Mr. TIF.

And now Arlingtonians, or whatever you call citizens of Arlington Heights—time for a brief primer on tax increment financing.

A TIF is a surcharge your leaders slap on your property tax. The money goes into a bank account largely controlled by your leaders, only to be withdrawn for alleged economic development schemes, no matter how harebrained.

In this case, that scheme is a stadium for the Bears, who don’t need one ’cause Soldier Field is more than adequate. And they don’t deserve one, because they really do suck.

In short, Arlington Heights, it looks as though your thirsty leaders are getting ready to give millions, and millions, and millions of your property tax dollars to the McCaskeys so they can build a stadium that will make their team even richer than it is. Last I looked, the Bears were valued at $4 billion.

So that’s my answer to the question Crain’s posed.

 

[GDAWG]

So once the Bears head to Arlington Heights, how many NFL teams will be in their suburbs?

[sky1324]

27 minutes ago, GDAWG said:

So once the Bears head to Arlington Heights, how many NFL teams will be in their suburbs?

It depends on how you define suburb, but my count is 13 including the Bears.

 

Chargers and Rams play in Inglewood

Patriots play in Foxborough

Cowboys in Arlington

Washington in Landover

Dolphins in Miami Gardens

Bills in Orchard Park

Jets and Giants in East Rutherford

49ers in Santa Clara

Cardinals in Glendale

Raiders in Paradise (the shakiest one, Paradise is basically just a part of Vegas that hasn't been annexed)

Bears in Arlington Heights

 

I'm pretty sure every other team plays within their city limits.

[kimball]

12 hours ago, QCS said:

It depends on how you define suburb, but my count is 13 including the Bears.

 

Chargers and Rams play in Inglewood

Patriots play in Foxborough

Cowboys in Arlington

Washington in Landover

Dolphins in Miami Gardens

Bills in Orchard Park

Jets and Giants in East Rutherford

49ers in Santa Clara

Cardinals in Glendale

Raiders in Paradise (the shakiest one, Paradise is basically just a part of Vegas that hasn't been annexed)

Bears in Arlington Heights

 

I'm pretty sure every other team plays within their city limits.

 

Yeah, the Raiders don't count here, though The Strip and Las Vegas as a whole are two completely different things.

[Red Comet]

The Chiefs are about as far away from downtown Kansas City as the Jets/Giants are from Manhattan but because it’s still inside the city limits, it doesn’t get brought up. Arrowhead is actually closer to Independence than downtown. 

[The_Admiral]

Lambeau Field is practically in Ashwaubenon and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that they redrew the city limits around "New City Stadium" to make sure it stayed in Green Bay. 

 

I'm not even opposed to less-than-downtown stadiums. I think it would be dumb to have a football stadium as the centerpiece of Chicago. But this is worse.

[LMU]

1 hour ago, the admiral said:

Lambeau Field is practically in Ashwaubenon and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that they redrew the city limits around "New City Stadium" to make sure it stayed in Green Bay. 

 

I'm not even opposed to less-than-downtown stadiums. I think it would be dumb to have a football stadium as the centerpiece of Chicago. But this is worse.

There's a clear notch in the boundary to do just that.

[The_Admiral]

I mean, if your city's entire identity is that you incongruously have a professional football team, you have to make sure you actually have the professional football team. I don't know that that's what they did, it just looks that way. 

 

The silliest move like this was how Maryland doesn't really have cities the way most states do, allowing the Rdskns to invent their home of "Raljon, Maryland," which is actually just Landover, which is really actually the "Summerfield census-designated place." Go SCDPFT.

[Crabcake]

Anytime the WFT or Landover gets brought up I think of the one I time I actually went to FedEx Field.  I vividly remember being in the car while we drove through what looked like a pretty standard upper-middle-class residential Maryland neighborhood, only for us to make a left turn and be staring at FedEx Field.  It was honestly one of the most jarring things I remember, because unlike most stadiums where you see it miles away and can kind of mentally prepare yourself for it, I don't remember any of that from FedEx.  We turned left and it was just there.

[The_Admiral]

If they wind up in Northern Virginia it'll be more of the same; perhaps more than anywhere else in America, there is no there there. It's like six counties that are all Tony Soprano's neighborhood except the residents kill more people than he did.

[kimball]

12 hours ago, Crabcake said:

Anytime the WFT or Landover gets brought up I think of the one I time I actually went to FedEx Field.  I vividly remember being in the car while we drove through what looked like a pretty standard upper-middle-class residential Maryland neighborhood, only for us to make a left turn and be staring at FedEx Field.  It was honestly one of the most jarring things I remember, because unlike most stadiums where you see it miles away and can kind of mentally prepare yourself for it, I don't remember any of that from FedEx.  We turned left and it was just there.

That was almost the same experience I had with the Rose Bowl. I got lost driving into LA and took an exit too early, drove through some neighborhoods looking for a good way to turn around and has up and then all of the sudden … BAM … Rose Bowl. 
 

Never expected it.