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54 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

But the important point here is that the Brewers acknowledge their history, as do all baseball teams except the Nationals.

 

False statements like this is why this silly debate keeps popping up. Have you ever been to a game at Nats Park? Nats do honor Expos history. I guess they must wear Expo throwbacks for everyone to see on their TV. People here are more concerned with a uniform than Expo history being honored. lol. The franchise as the Washington Nationals has existed for only 11 years, and ownership has been busy trying to build a strong fan base here in DC. Excuse them if Montreal Expos throwbacks aren't a high priority right now. 

Sorry for the double post.

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2 hours ago, Gothamite said:

The Brewers acknowledge their Seattle history but don't wallow in it. 

 

As as for the Browns, I know that the original plan was to take the name. But once they decided to leave it behind, the history stayed with it.  That was very clear from the start.   

 

And leaving behind the franchise certificate was indeed an elegant solution.  You can't tar it with the Pelicans/Hornets mess any more than you can blame Bill Veeck or Charlie Finley for the Diamondbacks' new uniforms. 

 

 

Original plans don't always come to fruition, like in this example. If anyone really cared about history, they wouldn't approve the move of a 4x NFL champion when they still had fan support in viable market.  They'd force him to sell, maybe let him have the expansion franchise. The relatively elegant deal was the next best compromise.  People are acting like this was just another vagabond franchise move - not the most controversial attempted move of a historic team since the Dodgers and Giants. The league deserves some credit for salvaging and preserving the team of Brown and Graham when it nearly flushed it down the toilet with Oilers/Titans/Texans style minor league franchise churn - even if that is more honest, it's very inelegant.

 

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3 hours ago, daveindc said:

False statements like this is why this silly debate keeps popping up. Have you ever been to a game at Nats Park? Nats do honor Expos history. 

 

If that were true, then they wouldn't have put the retired numbers back into circulation.

 

 

3 hours ago, daveindc said:

I guess they must wear Expo throwbacks for everyone to see on their TV. 

 

Yes, exactly.

 

 

3 hours ago, daveindc said:

The franchise as the Washington Nationals has existed for only 11 years, and ownership has been busy trying to build a strong fan base here in DC. Excuse them if Montreal Expos throwbacks aren't a high priority right now. 

 

So, then, wear the Expos throwbacks on the road. The Orioles wore their St. Louis Browns throwbacks when they visited the Cardinals.  The Nationals could wear Expos throwbacks the next time they visit Toronto, preferably on Canada Day.

 

Better still, they could move an entire three-game home series up to Montreal, perhaps to coincide with the fête nationale.  It would be guaranteed to draw 50,000 per game to Olympic Stadium, and would attract media attention comparable to a World Series.  This would win the team a lot of goodwill in Quebec; and they'd sell Expos jerseys and hats by the boatload throughout the province, in addition to elsewhere in Canada. And this course of action would in no way detract from their brand-building as the Nationals down in Washington.

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4 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

Better still, they could move an entire three-game home series up to Montreal, perhaps to coincide with the fête nationale.  It would be guaranteed to draw 50,000 per game to Olympic Stadium, and would attract media attention comparable to a World Series.  This would win the team a lot of goodwill in Quebec; and they'd sell Expos jerseys and hats by the boatload throughout the province, in addition to elsewhere in Canada. And this course of action would in no way detract from their brand-building as the Nationals down in Washington.

 

Wow. Pass the bong!

 

Please allow me to remind you why the Expos left for DC:

 

montreal-05-02-01-expos-tony-armas-jr-pi

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5 minutes ago, Cujo said:

 

Wow. Pass the bong!

 

Please allow me to remind you why the Expos left for DC:

 

montreal-05-02-01-expos-tony-armas-jr-pi

 

And now look at that park when the Blue Jays played exhibition games up there:

 

usa-today-8497919.0.jpg

 

A three-game series in Montreal would draw well, even if the city couldn't support a Major League team full-time.

 

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Can we just let the Nationals live up being the latest Washington D.C. baseball team, with only cursory trips into their franchise's past? A "ring of honor" for the former retired numbers (but still having them in circulation, like the Blue Jays' "ring of honor" players), an occasional throwback, and so on (and certainly not a series in Montreal) are more than enough to honor their past as the Expos. The Nationals should treat the Expos like the Orioles treat the Browns, by making minuscule references to them.

 

My rule of thumb with relocations centers on the team name/colors. Did the name and/or colors stay the same? They should actively acknowledge the franchises' past. If the name and/or colors changed? They are free to do what they want with their past. Honor it, downplay it, ignore it, etc. As long as the record books don't change, things should be good.

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44 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

And now look at that park when the Blue Jays played exhibition games up there:

 

usa-today-8497919.0.jpg

 

A three-game series in Montreal would draw well, even if the city couldn't support a Major League team full-time.

 

 

Still seeing many empty seats up top...

 

The Nats have washed their hands of the non-supportive baseball fans of Montreal -- and quite frankly, I'm glad they have.

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4 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

Can we just let the Nationals live up being the latest Washington D.C. baseball team, with only cursory trips into their franchise's past? A "ring of honor" for the former retired numbers (but still having them in circulation, like the Blue Jays' "ring of honor" players), an occasional throwback, and so on (and certainly not a series in Montreal) are more than enough to honor their past as the Expos. The Nationals should treat the Expos like the Orioles treat the Browns, by making minuscule references to them.

 

Difference being the St. Louis Browns were gone fifty years before the Expos were. The Expos loom a little larger in baseball history by dint of having been around when baseball media was larger by several orders of magnitude.

 

Among the retired numbers are Gary Carter, Andre Dawson, and Tim Raines. Those are some pretty significant players to un-retire numbers for, no? We Expos-romantics aren't asking for too much from the Nationals (nor should we, because the Nationals have never proven capable of delivering too much), just some retired numbers on the outfield wall or the grandstand or wherever with some swooshy bubbly Ms around. Have your own traditions, by all means, just don't let the Expos disappear into the ether, that's all.

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3 minutes ago, Cujo said:

The Nats have washed their hands of the non-supportive baseball fans of Montreal -- and quite frankly, I'm glad they have.

 

"And I'm Jim Rome! CBS Sports Radio!"

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Just now, the admiral said:

 

"And I'm Jim Rome! CBS Sports Radio!"

 

Does this include the six second pause ------ of dead air?

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PHEE-nomenal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rack him.

 

 

 

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The Giants revealed the Mother's Day, Father's Day, Memorial Day, and Fourth of July caps/uniforms on their Twitter account yesterday. Caps are supposed to be a graphite with pink and blue logos, eyelets, and stitching, respectively. I believe Marine camo (not quite sure) for Memorial Day, but I don't know what's going on with the FOJ cap.

image.jpeg

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6 hours ago, Cujo said:

 

Wow. Pass the bong!

 

Please allow me to remind you why the Expos left for DC:

 

montreal-05-02-01-expos-tony-armas-jr-pi

 

I guess you are pointing out the :censored:ty pitcher our dear ownership got back in the Pedro Martinez trade? If so you're totally right, fielding a AAA ballclub is really why they ended up leaving for DC.

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5 hours ago, the admiral said:

 

We Expos-romantics aren't asking for too much from the Nationals just some retired numbers on the outfield wall or the grandstand or wherever with some swooshy bubbly Ms around.

 

Not talking about this I guess?

 

 

2010-08-10-dawson-cloth-comes-down-500x3

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The only thing that grinds my gears about the Nationals' treatment of the Expos' legacy was the "EST. 1905" patch. That was just pathetic. 

 

They have the Montreal ring of honour up though, with the Expos logo. That's nice. 

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14 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

This decison was, from a history-lover's point of view, tragic.  It left a poisonous wake, as it set a dangerous and ugly precedent. 

 

I'm a person who appreciates history and context and how we arrived at this point in the world. Here's where I don't care about the Cleveland deal -  History is a collection of events written down as they happen. In our reality, in this universe we're currently in, the league froze the Browns records and held them for a new version of the team while establishing Baltimore's team would be starting from scratch. That's how it happened and that can't be argued. Regardless of their intentions to be the Baltimore Browns when they first moved or at what point in the process the league decided to hold Cleveland's records, or historical precedent, this decision was made before the franchise played another game. It happened in real time. It wasn't done retroactively like the Hornets-Bobcats-Pelicans mess, and that's why I don't have a problem with the Cleveland deal. I look at it almost as if it's one big roster transaction where one team gave all of their players and staff to another team and took 3 years off.  

 

How is that history of it unfolding exactly as it did less valid a history than if the Cleveland Browns and all of their records move to Baltimore and become the Baltimore Browns? I mean, that's how it happened and that was the agreement in place before the 96 Ravens played a single game so I don't think it's dishonest to say that the Ravens are not the Browns because the Ravens have never once played a game operating as part of the Browns franchise.

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, the admiral said:

Among the retired numbers are Gary Carter, Andre Dawson, and Tim Raines. Those are some pretty significant players to un-retire numbers for, no?

 

tumblr_ly9i5xsjxE1qm9rypo1_1280.jpg

 

Right.  Keeping those numbers retired could have been done very quietly and uncontroversially.  Putting them back in circulation comes off as spiteful and ungracious, as an insult to these players (and to Rusty Staub, for whom no. 10 was also retired).

 

 

8 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

Can we just let the Nationals live up being the latest Washington D.C. baseball team, with only cursory trips into their franchise's past? A "ring of honor" for the former retired numbers (but still having them in circulation, like the Blue Jays' "ring of honor" players), an occasional throwback, and so on (and certainly not a series in Montreal) are more than enough to honor their past as the Expos.


"Cursory trips" into the franchise's past would be just fine.

exposx-inset-community.jpg

 

This was a great moment in Washington.  But, as mentioned above, the retired numbers are a rather big deal.

 

And an occasional throwback would be excellent!  I was asking for it only once!

 

The bit about the series in Montreal was just a flight of fancy; I don't actually expect them to do that.  (Though I do think that such an event would be a sellout, and would cause a media frenzy that would bring the franchise a great deal of goodwill.)  But a Canada Day game at Toronto, wearing Expos uniforms, is eminently doable. 

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