spartacat_12 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 At the end of the day, I think the success of Vegas will be determined on the ice. When you look at all of the sunbelt success stories so far (Nashville, Dallas, San Jose, Anaheim, Tampa) compared to the failures (Arizona, Atlanta, Carolina), there's one main difference, a well managed hockey operations department that's been able to consistently win. It seems like the expansion draft rules are setting up this new team to be decent much quicker than the previous expansion, so hopefully George McPhee is up to the task. Now, back on topic. I don't love the Knights name, but I don't hate it either. The NHL clearly doesn't want any sort of gambling connotations, so I really can't think of anything better. I really hope that they can come up with a simple, yet unique logo & uniform set, but based on what we've heard so far I don't think it's going to happen. Also, EA Sports just released a trailer that shows us more of the improved creation zone features in NHL 17: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnWis97 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I need to know. What's "OTH?" Disclaimer: If this comment is about an NBA uniform from 2017-2018 or later, do not constitute a lack of acknowledgement of the corporate logo to mean anything other than "the corporate logo is terrible and makes the uniform significantly worse." BADGERS TWINS VIKINGS TIMBERWOLVES WILD POTD (Shared) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 16 minutes ago, spartacat_12 said: hopefully George McPhee is up to the task. Does the task involve punching other team's coaches in the face? If not, then no. ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinturner95 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 It took EA this long to let us recolor current uniforms rather than just pick from the same 3 templates? But in all seriousness, the creation zone looks awsome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayMac Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 2 hours ago, OnWis97 said: I need to know. What's "OTH?" I would like to know, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gothamite Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 It appears to be a pejorative used by sunbelt fans against traditional markets, so "Old Time Hockey"? The Green Bay Packers Uniform Database! Now in a handy blog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnWis97 Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 5 minutes ago, Gothamite said: It appears to be a pejorative used by sunbelt fans against traditional markets, so "Old Time Hockey"? I'm an SJW and fan of OTH. OMG. Disclaimer: If this comment is about an NBA uniform from 2017-2018 or later, do not constitute a lack of acknowledgement of the corporate logo to mean anything other than "the corporate logo is terrible and makes the uniform significantly worse." BADGERS TWINS VIKINGS TIMBERWOLVES WILD POTD (Shared) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiddySicks Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 2 hours ago, bkknight95 said: It took EA this long to let us recolor current uniforms rather than just pick from the same 3 templates? But in all seriousness, the creation zone looks awsome! And I bet you still can't use it offline. On 11/19/2012 at 7:23 PM, oldschoolvikings said: She’s still half convinced “Chris Creamer” is a porn site.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1409 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 3 hours ago, spartacat_12 said: At the end of the day, I think the success of Vegas will be determined on the ice. When you look at all of the sunbelt success stories so far (Nashville, Dallas, San Jose, Anaheim, Tampa) compared to the failures (Arizona, Atlanta, Carolina), there's one main difference, a well managed hockey operations department that's been able to consistently win. The Canes have been to the eastern final three times between 97 and 2008, have made it to the Stanley cup final twice and won a cup yet they even had a hard time selling out deep in the playoffs... I know at least a dozen teams who would kill for such a stretch. People there just don't give a :censored: and the league doesn't want to admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacat_12 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 4 hours ago, jp1409 said: The Canes have been to the eastern final three times between 97 and 2008, have made it to the Stanley cup final twice and won a cup yet they even had a hard time selling out deep in the playoffs... I know at least a dozen teams who would kill for such a stretch. People there just don't give a and the league doesn't want to admit it. Except in the years between those three playoff runs they did nothing. The key to establishing sustained success is consistency. Despite not having won any Cups, San Jose & Nashville have grown loyal fanbases by making the playoffs more often than missing it, and continually drafting & accumulating quality players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1409 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 6 hours ago, spartacat_12 said: Except in the years between those three playoff runs they did nothing. The key to establishing sustained success is consistency. Despite not having won any Cups, San Jose & Nashville have grown loyal fanbases by making the playoffs more often than missing it, and continually drafting & accumulating quality players. The Canes made the playoffs two other times and finished 9th three times during that stretch... They also had their share of all-stars. They have honestly been one of the most successful "southern experiment" on the ice. It's has been another story in the stands... The Preds made the playoffs nine times in 17 seasons winning only three first rounds and the Lightning made the playoffs once in their first ten seasons, saying that they consistently won is a bit exaggerated... Carolina experiment has failed, time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerslionspistonshabs Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 In their first 11 seasons in Carolina, they were consistently good. They went to the Cup twice, including one Cup win, and another ECF. Sure, they've been garbage since 2008-09, but there were issues before that. They accomplished enough in their first decade to cement a fan-base in any market that cares. It's obvious the market is the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerGuyJordan Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 That's why, IMO, Carolina needs to go, now. The league is only going to kove one at a time out of the Sunbelt. They can make the fewest garbage excuses for Raleigh. Their numbers weren't great during the height of their on-ice success, a 67% average attendance and a "daddy stole our inheritance" lawsuit just screams "move 'em to Quebec. Quebecor can pick up the team for less than expansion, addressing the League's heartfelt concern for the Canadian dollar issue. Losing Raleigh's "potential hotbed" argument is far weaker than the other two flailing markets. Raleigh has had ample room to succeed. Some cities will succeed, pretty much no matter what the team's quality is. Some need the right management, marketing and a bit of success. Then there are going to be a couple where the sport just won't take. The Hurricanes fansbase seem to have shown themselves to be the latter. Thunder Bay Lynx - International Hockey Association (2 seasons, 2017-18, 2019-20, 2018 Xtreme Cup Champions) | Houston Armadillos - Major League Hockey (2 seasons, 2016-18) | Minnesota Muskies - North American Basketball Association (1 season, 2017-2018) | Louisville Thoroughbreds - United League of Baseball (1 season, 2017, 2017 United Cup Champions) | Las Vegas Thunderbirds - International Basketball League (1 season, 2016-17, 2017 Champions) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerGuyJordan Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Also, if you want to argue about Carolina's inconsistency between good runs, please tell me why they are behind Columbus? Thunder Bay Lynx - International Hockey Association (2 seasons, 2017-18, 2019-20, 2018 Xtreme Cup Champions) | Houston Armadillos - Major League Hockey (2 seasons, 2016-18) | Minnesota Muskies - North American Basketball Association (1 season, 2017-2018) | Louisville Thoroughbreds - United League of Baseball (1 season, 2017, 2017 United Cup Champions) | Las Vegas Thunderbirds - International Basketball League (1 season, 2016-17, 2017 Champions) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianLion Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 10 minutes ago, BeerGuyJordan said: That's why, IMO, Carolina needs to go, now. The league is only going to kove one at a time out of the Sunbelt. They can make the fewest garbage excuses for Raleigh. Their numbers weren't great during the height of their on-ice success, a 67% average attendance and a "daddy stole our inheritance" lawsuit just screams "move 'em to Quebec. Quebecor can pick up the team for less than expansion, addressing the League's heartfelt concern for the Canadian dollar issue. Losing Raleigh's "potential hotbed" argument is far weaker than the other two flailing markets. Raleigh has had ample room to succeed. Some cities will succeed, pretty much no matter what the team's quality is. Some need the right management, marketing and a bit of success. Then there are going to be a couple where the sport just won't take. The Hurricanes fansbase seem to have shown themselves to be the latter. Quebec City will continue to be a market of last resort for the NHL much in the way Winnipeg was. It's a tiny non-U.S. metro that's already heavily hockey-saturated. Add that to the fact that the Canadian dollar is currently getting it's teeth kicked in and there isn't much appeal for the league at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Admiral Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 1 hour ago, tigerslionspistonshabs said: In their first 11 seasons in Carolina, they were consistently good. 1998: missed playoffs 1999: first round 2000: missed playoffs 2001: first round 2002: Stanley Cup Final 2003: missed playoffs 2004: missed playoffs 2006: Stanley Cup 2007: missed playoffs 2008: missed playoffs 2009: third round ♫ Can't get enough of that Golden Crisp consistency! ♫ ♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerslionspistonshabs Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 50 minutes ago, the admiral said: 1998: missed playoffs 1999: first round 2000: missed playoffs 2001: first round 2002: Stanley Cup Final 2003: missed playoffs 2004: missed playoffs 2006: Stanley Cup 2007: missed playoffs 2008: missed playoffs 2009: third round ♫ Can't get enough of that Golden Crisp consistency! ♫ My point- had you read my whole post- is that a new team that makes the playoffs 3 of it's first 5 years including a Cup final, would normally garner some significant interest and generate a fan-base in any market that cares, especially when said team WINS the Cup 3 seasons later. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems they've accomplished more in their short existence than some teams with double or triple the tenure. If they hadn't gone to the Cup final at least once, they would have been the Atlanta Thrashers first. It's a bad market. Carolina is a basketball, football and racing region. Not hockey. It won't work. It's the same with Phoenix. If it hasn't by now, it won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1409 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 1 hour ago, the admiral said: 1998: missed playoffs 1999: first round 2000: missed playoffs 2001: first round 2002: Stanley Cup Final 2003: missed playoffs 2004: missed playoffs 2006: Stanley Cup 2007: missed playoffs 2008: missed playoffs 2009: third round ♫ Can't get enough of that Golden Crisp consistency! ♫ Out of the six times they missed the playoffs, they finished 9th three times. I can understand people losing interest for a team consistently out of the race but they played some very competitive hockey during that period... 11 seasons 1 Stanley Cup 1 final 1 eastern final 2 first round losses 3 times barely out of the playoffs They have ranged from competive to excellent in 8 of their first 11 years. These are very very decent results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacat_12 Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 2 hours ago, tigerslionspistonshabs said: My point- had you read my whole post- is that a new team that makes the playoffs 3 of it's first 5 years including a Cup final, would normally garner some significant interest and generate a fan-base in any market that cares, especially when said team WINS the Cup 3 seasons later. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems they've accomplished more in their short existence than some teams with double or triple the tenure. If they hadn't gone to the Cup final at least once, they would have been the Atlanta Thrashers first. It's a bad market. Carolina is a basketball, football and racing region. Not hockey. It won't work. It's the same with Phoenix. If it hasn't by now, it won't. The Panthers made the playoffs in 3 of their first 6 seasons, including a Final. They followed that up with some of the inept management and became a joke. Now that the team finally has a competent front office that's building a young core that should compete for a long time, plus the grassroots efforts paying off, it's looking like hockey might finally solidify itself in South Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerGuyJordan Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Arizona, Florida and Carolina all belong on the list, but there are differences in the reasoning. Arizona, for instance. I think they are a market that could have work. The fact that they haven't, for so long, means it's time to pull the plug. They've been consistently mismanaged, including the Glendale move. Moving your hockey team to the outskirts, in a non-traditional market, is a bad call. I think that Florida only solidifies that. Thunder Bay Lynx - International Hockey Association (2 seasons, 2017-18, 2019-20, 2018 Xtreme Cup Champions) | Houston Armadillos - Major League Hockey (2 seasons, 2016-18) | Minnesota Muskies - North American Basketball Association (1 season, 2017-2018) | Louisville Thoroughbreds - United League of Baseball (1 season, 2017, 2017 United Cup Champions) | Las Vegas Thunderbirds - International Basketball League (1 season, 2016-17, 2017 Champions) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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