2016 NHL Playoffs, Rite of Spring: "You thought God was an architect"

[The_Admiral]

17 minutes ago, smzimbabwe said:

I've been a Penguins fan since before Mario Lemieux was playing for them, so while I'm happy at making the finals, I just gotta ask - why all the hate for them? Maybe it's because I've followed them for so long that I don't see what's wrong with them, but I am actually surprised at the level of hatred towards them. My best friend just texted me that he's rooting for San Jose because "anybody but the Pens". Why are they so despised? I thought that maybe they would have a mild dislike of them, but did not image the levels to which this hatred is across the land.

 

1) There's a perception that NBC force-feeds the Penguins to the American audience, which fosters a lot of resentment. Same with the Blackhawks. Of course, the Pens and Hawks have had elite talent, name recognition, and championships, so it's hard to get too caught up in that while the real NBC force-feeding has been with the perennially tripping-at-the-finish-line Rangers and their seemingly endless supply of dudes named Ryan or something. 

 

2) Sidney "Cindy" Crosby has the perception of being a big whiny diaper baby who's either getting every borderline call or bitching about the few he doesn't get. I dunno, kinda hard to separate perception and reality on this one.

 

3) The Steelers exist, which makes people resent any further joy for the people of western PA. It's kind of a funny little world-is-upside-down moment when people from goddamn Raleigh-Durham are like "hey, you guys from a mid-sized city in an economically depressed region, you've had it too good!"

[IceCap]

We've got an all-around knowledgeable and grounded Sharks fanbase here (well we do now, at any rate) but the "other" Sharks fans have really soured me on the whole thing. 

 

So go Pens. I'll be happy for the Sharks fans here if they pull it off though. 

 

Also yay to an all "Next Six" Stanley Cup matchup :trollface:

 

EDIT-

Perds fans crowing after another second round exit? Really? I mean I know I have no room to talk as a Leafs fan, but at least I've fully accepted the futility of following my team. 

[FiddySicks]

For me, it stems from the rivalry with the Flyers.

 

I'm more of a Sharks fan now due to location and actually getting to see them on TV, but when I first started watching hockey as a kid, the Flyers were on quite a bit due to national coverage and they pretty quickly became my favorite hockey team (Also, NHL 98 was the first hockey game I ever got, and Lindros was on the cover. I just kinda ran with it). They had some pretty crazy playoff matchups vs the Pens (I think something like the longest ever post season game was played between them), and some bad moments like the Kasperitis hit on Lindros, so they became easy to hate. Then they ended up lucking into two superstars back-to-back because they played in a Dog Igloo, and one of those super stars was a generational talent golden boy who scored the game winner against the USA in 2010. 

 

 

So yeah, the Pens can sit on a fence post.

[Magnus]

Quote

I've been a Penguins fan since before Mario Lemieux was playing for them, so while I'm happy at making the finals, I just gotta ask - why all the hate for them? Maybe it's because I've followed them for so long that I don't see what's wrong with them, but I am actually surprised at the level of hatred towards them. My best friend just texted me that he's rooting for San Jose because "anybody but the Pens". Why are they so despised? I thought that maybe they would have a mild dislike of them, but did not image the levels to which this hatred is across the land.

The only time I cheer for Crosby is when he wears the (red) maple leaf. Dude's been held up as the Second Coming since before he was drafted, and while he did score an Olympic gold medal winning goal, he's not Gretzky-in-his-prime. Nobody will be. It's bordering on (perhaps surpassing) Trudeaumania 2.0 to me, all the love he gets - not just from actual sports fans, but from puck bunnies who know little to nothing about the sport, and just like saying things like "I'm so wet" whenever they see a picture of him. Trust me, I've dated a couple of these girls. It caused fights.

Pens suck. Go Sharks.

[Sport]

14 minutes ago, smzimbabwe said:

I've been a Penguins fan since before Mario Lemieux was playing for them, so while I'm happy at making the finals, I just gotta ask - why all the hate for them? Maybe it's because I've followed them for so long that I don't see what's wrong with them, but I am actually surprised at the level of hatred towards them. My best friend just texted me that he's rooting for San Jose because "anybody but the Pens". Why are they so despised? I thought that maybe they would have a mild dislike of them, but did not image the levels to which this hatred is across the land.

 

Here's my reasons:

 

1. They benefit from the same Pittsburgh sports luck that the Steelers also get and that's not to say that Pittsburgh don't have good players or well run teams, but that Pittsburgh sports on the whole run into positive luck at mathematically absurd rates. The Steelers have had a losing record once in the last 15 years and that landed them Roethlisberger at #11. The Penguins have been bad in two periods since the early 80's and it's landed them Lemieux (the franchise savior in more ways than one) and Crosby. Two hall of famer, all-time players fall into Pittsburgh's lap, while other franchises go through down periods for much longer and wind up with Ryan Nugent-Hopkins or whatever or don't even win the lottery. Crosby had the same odds of landing in Columbus as he did Pittsburgh, but we were a new franchise and Gary Bettman thought you needed him more. This will be the 7th time I've seen the Penguins or Steelers play for a championship, not to mention the many other years where they narrowly missed out and it's just too much. The city is due for about 15 years of really bad teams. And I realize they had the Pirates, who were taking the brunt of the Penguins and Steelers success, but the Pirates are good now so that's out the window. 

 

2. During the aforementioned down periods you couldn't find a Penguins fan and the team was destined for Kansas City. I was rooting against a move at the time. I paid $10 for a seat on the glass in 2003 at Mellon Arena. They're a marquee franchise now, but I remember a very recent time when they weren't and what's particularly irksome is most Penguins fans seem to have erased that era from their memories either because they weren't a fan then or because they refuse to admit they were ever a part of the real NHL with us bottom feeders. Also, being as objective as I can here, I've seen all 30 NHL teams at Nationwide Arena plus the Thrashers and no fanbase is more obnoxious or annoying than Pittsburgh. Buffalo used to be bad, Detroit is sometimes bad, Chicago was getting annoying for a little bit there, but the Pittsburgh fans who come into Natiownide Arena are far and away the worst behaved visiting fans I've ever seen at a sporting event. The one level headed Penguins fan I know was at the game with me and even he commented on how boorish his fellow guinos were behaving. 

 

3. Crosby is the most annoying superstar I can remember. 

 

[The_Admiral]

The Penguins' struggles were largely the fault of Howard Baldwin, a spendthrift and simpleton who came a hairsbreadth from running the NHL out of Hartford, Minnesota, and Pittsburgh.

[The_Admiral]

Top three scorers from the 2016 Penguins:

 

Crosby, 36G, 49A, 85 pts.

Letang, 16G, 51A, 67 pts.

Kessel: 26G, 33A, 59 pts.

 

Top three scorers from the 1996 Penguins:

Lemieux, 69G, 92A, 161 pts. (2.3 pts/gm in '96 on the heels of HAVING CANCER, good gravy)

Jagr: 62G, 87A, 149 pts.

Francis: 27G, 92A, 119 pts.

 

MAKE HOCKEY GREAT AGAIN
 

[Kramerica Industries]

4 hours ago, McCarthy said:

 

Here's my reasons:

 

1. They benefit from the same Pittsburgh sports luck that the Steelers also get and that's not to say that Pittsburgh don't have good players or well run teams, but that Pittsburgh sports on the whole run into positive luck at mathematically absurd rates. The Steelers have had a losing record once in the last 15 years and that landed them Roethlisberger at #11. The Penguins have been bad in two periods since the early 80's and it's landed them Lemieux (the franchise savior in more ways than one) and Crosby. Two hall of famer, all-time players fall into Pittsburgh's lap, while other franchises go through down periods for much longer and wind up with Ryan Nugent-Hopkins or whatever or don't even win the lottery. Crosby had the same odds of landing in Columbus as he did Pittsburgh, but we were a new franchise and Gary Bettman thought you needed him more. This will be the 7th time I've seen the Penguins or Steelers play for a championship, not to mention the many other years where they narrowly missed out and it's just too much. The city is due for about 15 years of really bad teams. And I realize they had the Pirates, who were taking the brunt of the Penguins and Steelers success, but the Pirates are good now so that's out the window. 

Malkin is also better than pretty much every #1 overall pick, aside from Sid and McDavid (potentially) since he was drafted, too. So that only furthers your theory.

[KittSmith_95]

Going to cheer on Robo-Sharks here.

 

You know who deserves the Cup more than anyone on these 2 teams? Patty Marleau. They guy's played 18 seasons, had a quiet but solid career and him and Joe should retire after the season if they do win the Cup.

 

Plus..... It'll be fun seeing the Sharks not choke in the playoffs.

 

 

[Alex Houston]

They use "yinz" and "yuze" for Christ sake. At least in Chicago the term "youse" is somewhat close to being grammatically correct.

 

I don't hate the Pens. Despite wanting the Steelers to be deported overseas, I like their logos and color scheme and think they're the most tolerable team from the Allegheny range. But like Ads said, they're on NBC too much, Crosby gets too much accolades as the "golden child" of the NHL and like McCarthy said, they go from teasing a move to Missouri to marquee team in the league. I wouldn't mind seeing the Pens win another Cup sometime in a few years, but the Sharks have earned this title. The chokers are due for their moment in the sun and I really hope that happens. If they lose, I'll still appreciate the ride in hindsight, but I've had to eat crow by a bunch of people I know - sometimes not even sports fans - backed on the lackluster performance of the Sharks. I've paid my dues. Let luck fall my way for once.

[Crabcake]

Reasons I hate the Pens:

 

1. They always beat the Caps. I know that's not a particularly objective reason to hate, but tough. 

 

2. Crosby, to me, is on the level of Brady, A-Rod, Ronaldo, etc. of "whiny superstars that always seem to win/get their way". 

 

3. Everything about the Pens oozes obnoxiousness to me. Everything from their stars, to their local announcer, to their goal song seems obnoxious to me. 

 

4. They just don't seem likable. I mean, it's not impossible to like a successful team to be liked (see: 2015-16 Leicester City, 2007 Giants, etc.). To me, it just seems impossible to like the Pens. 

 

I know those aren't exactly objective reasons to hate a exam, but heir my reasons  

[Coast2CoastAM2006]

If only. 

 

 

[teddthebucfan]

I've been putting off commenting about all this on account of the fact that my remarks would most likely seem sanctimonious and/or conceited, not to mention it would be really petty and somewhat hypocritical to argue over the morality of which teams you root for or against. Some of the complaints made are perfectly logical, some are to be expected in any good fun rivalry, and some are really stupid and petty. That's all I'm going to say. I'm fine with my team playing heel.

 

1 hour ago, Alex Houston said:

They use "yinz" and "yuze" for Christ sake. At least in Chicago the term "youse" is somewhat close to being grammatically correct.

 

That being said, I will fight you in real life if you start disparaging the Westsylvanian Dialect.

[The_Admiral]

1 hour ago, Crabcake47 said:

3. Everything about the Pens oozes obnoxiousness to me. Everything from their stars, to their local announcer, to their goal song seems obnoxious to me.

 

Paul Steigerwald is terrible, but Mike Lange on the radio side is most excellent. He doesn't know whether to cry or wind his watch! I've read from Pens fans that Steiggy was fine as Lange's sidekick, but for whatever reason is awful in a lead role. 

 

1 hour ago, Crabcake47 said:

4. They just don't seem likable. I mean, it's not impossible to like a successful team to be liked (see: 2015-16 Leicester City, 2007 Giants, etc.). To me, it just seems impossible to like the Pens.

Now this is interesting. You may be on to something here. It's not that the Penguins are expressly unlikable so much as there's kind of an empty feeling. The Blackhawks, despite Patrick Kane's best efforts to the contrary, seem to be mostly agreeable, as long as you're not some message-board bitch who gets hung up on "seeing new teams." (The Perds make the second round for the third time in six years: "ahhh, something new!") They play an entertaining style that ranges from run-and-gun to Harlem Globetrotters-esque possession control. The L.A. Kings are the best villains a league could ask for, a team you love to hate but also hate yourself for loving. Pace Evgeni Malkin, the Penguins today, to most people, I would wager are just "Sidney Crosby's team," and that water doesn't run too deep.

 

As a personality -- with the disclaimer that hockey has you fleshing out some very rough sketches --- Sidney Crosby's greatest attribute has always been that he's a blank slate. He's polite, safe, and agreeable, but short of the Good Canadian Boy par excellence that Jonathan Toews is (who must have come to feel more than a little burdened by always having to be stoic and dour for appearances' sake). He's not quite as taciturn on the ice, but he's really just the victim of unfavorable framing there and can't be seen saying and doing anything other captains don't say and do. Crosby is undoubtedly one of the most talented hockey players in the world, but age and concussions have taken some of the shine off. Meanwhile, there's so much elite talent around the NHL now that Crosby is "merely" one of several highly exceptional players, not one who towers above the rest like Gretzky or Lemieux did, so he can't just traffic in being The Best with no further responsibilities. So what is Sidney Crosby to us? I don't really know. Why do I care? This is why we need the United States and Canada to sign a treaty banning all use of "The Next One," because all it's done is take a surefire Hall of Famer and arguable best player of a generation in Sidney Crosby and make us sit here and dwell upon his shortcomings. (On the other hand, Eric Lindros was just a stupid prick and I'm glad he got fat.)

 

I suppose the lack of organizational continuity beyond Crosby and Malkin contributes to the lack of identity. They've gone to the Final three times in nine years and with a different coach each time. They're on their third coach in as many years, which is a punchline when it comes to the Oilers but shrugged off as circumstance with the Pens. Whether it's perception or reality, non-Crosby/Malkin/Letang players seem to come and go not just as a cost of doing business but without leaving a mark along the way. The Blackhawks (and adjust for home-team bias here) have had to send a score of players away, but so many of them played such big roles and left us with lasting memories, whether it was Byfuglien antagonizing Vancouver at every turn or Andrew Shaw trying to headbutt the puck into the net. It feels as though anyone else on the Penguins is just there until they're not: James Neal, Matt Niskanen, Jarome Iginla, Rob Scuderi, Paul Martin, David Perron, among others. They don't shape anything.

 

As I said earlier, I don't really go in for the groans about "the NBC teams" and how this sinister cabal is robbing America of the Nashville Predators-Anaheim Ducks features it wants and needs, but I can understand how a team with as much hype and exposure as the Penguins can leave you with some cognitive dissonance when they don't dominate on the level of other teams and don't even have the decency to undergo the grand pants-crappings of their rivals in Washington. I don't hate the Penguins, but I don't think I like them, either.

[IceCap]

3 hours ago, Alex Houston said:

I've paid my dues.

No, you haven't.

[TheGrimReaper]

5 hours ago, Crabcake47 said:

4. They just don't seem likable. I mean, it's not impossible to like a successful team to be liked (see: 2015-16 Leicester City, 2007 Giants, etc.). 

 

Ummmm, what? The 2007 Giants didn't do anything. Do you mean the Rockies?

[FiddySicks]

8 minutes ago, TheGrimReaper said:

 

Ummmm, what? The 2007 Giants didn't do anything. Do you mean the Rockies?

 

New York Giants. 

 

 

They're an odd case for me because both times they played in the Super Bowl, I wouldn't have rooted for them against anyone but the Pats. I really don't like the Giants, but I find it really hard to HATE them because they spoiled the Pats season twice. And the first one prevented what was probably going to be the most insufferable talking point any fanbase would ever have: "BEST FACKIN TEAM EVUAH!!!!". 

[TheGrimReaper]

4 hours ago, the admiral said:

It feels as though anyone else on the Penguins is just there until they're not: James Neal, Matt Niskanen, Jarome Iginla, Rob Scuderi, Paul Martin, David Perron, among others. They don't shape anything.

 

What about Dupuis, Kunitz, Talbot, etc.?

[TheGrimReaper]

3 minutes ago, Bucfan56 said:

 

New York Giants. 

 

 

They're an odd case for me because both times they played in the Super Bowl, I wouldn't have rooted for them against anyone but the Pats. I really don't like the Giants, but I find it really hard to HATE them because they spoiled the Pats season twice. And the first one prevented what was probably going to be the most insufferable talking point any fanbase would ever have: "BEST FACKIN TEAM EVUAH!!!!". 

 

Okay.

 

And yeah, completely agree, I don't like the NY Giants one bit, although I would've preferred the Pats to win in 2011(?). Eli having two rings and all this "is he better than Peyton, Marino, etc.?" crap was quite annoying... :censored: ESPN

[RedRenesis]

For the record here, people want to smear the Pens talking about how no one backed the franchise during the lean years in the early 2000's, and the franchise was getting ready to pack up for KC as if the two are linked, and they're not.  As Admiral noted previously the franchise was fresh off being driven into the ground and then they were trying to negotiate a replacement for the Civic Arena.  At around the time Jagr got traded the Pens were pretty open about the fact that they we're mailing it in until the lockout, and their sole goal was not to fold.  Thats when the Pens spent three years icing teams that would have struggled to compete in the AHL, and attendance plummeted.  

 

Also around this time Pennsylvania was exploring the idea of granting slots licenses, and one license was to be granted to Pittsburgh.  A group named Isle of Capri threw out a proposal to build the Pens an arena, for free, with no cost to the taxpayer if they got the Pittsburgh license.  A free arena was somehow deemed unsatisfactory and Isle of Capri was denied the license some time later.  It was then, after that proposal failed that Mario started showing up in KC, and the state eventually caved and built Consol.