MLB Stadium Saga: Oakland/Tampa Bay/Southside

[bosrs1]

21 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

So yeah, sorry about not giving you guys the San José rights back. My big question is, how’d the A’s even get them in the first place?

 

The teams used to share them, which made sense. The A’s did the Giants a solid in he 90’s. Let that be a lesson to you, never help anyone, it’ll just blow up in your face. 

[SFGiants58]

1 minute ago, bosrs1 said:

 

The teams used to share them, which made sense. The A’s did the Giants a solid in he 90’s. Let that be a lesson to you, never help anyone, it’ll just blow up in your face. 

...if only because the A’s wanted to be the closest team to downtown SF. Nothing is ever as pure as it’s made out to be.

[bosrs1]

24 minutes ago, dont care said:

They’ve been saying that do 2 decades now. Sure there are lulls and casinos go out of business, to them be demolished and build an even bigger resort but vegas has adjusted with the times and will continue to be successful until the businesses in Vegas stop adjusting and it’s no longer adult Disney in America.

Eventually Vegas is going to bomb out. There just isn’t enough water to support Vegas and there never has been. They’ve been living on borrowed time for decades. A same for Phoenix. And being in the middle of the desert, there’s no other source of water for either other than the Gila in AZ for Phoenix. Vegas lacks even that.  

[bosrs1]

1 minute ago, SFGiants58 said:

...if only because the A’s wanted to be the closest team to downtown SF. Nothing is ever as pure as it’s made out to be.

 

Never heard that particular take. Not that I imagine it holds much water. Oakland teams have never had much appeal in SF or the peninsula. 

[Digby]

Knowing what we know now about environmental effects and urban policy— the multipurpose stadiums had a point. Keep the Trop!

[TrueYankee26]

3 hours ago, bosrs1 said:

 

Nah they'll be fine. They all still root for the Warriors. And most of them were Giants fans already, which has been part of the problem. 

Was this before or after San Franciscans gentrified Oakland? Seems Alameda is not so much an oasis of A's fans in a desert of Giants fans after all.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

12 minutes ago, Digby said:

Knowing what we know now about environmental effects and urban policy— the multipurpose stadiums had a point. Keep the Trop!

 

You're not wrong.

 

The Sounders and Seahawks share a giant  stadium downtown and it's awesome for everyone.

[bosrs1]

1 hour ago, TrueYankee26 said:

Was this before or after San Franciscans gentrified Oakland? Seems Alameda is not so much an oasis of A's fans in a desert of Giants fans after all.

 

 

Before. Though SF emptying out into the east bay hasn’t been helping matters. The Giants made major inroads in the Bonds/roids era, sealed the deal with the World Series runs, and stuck the knife in the A’s locally when they killed San Jose. I mean more power to them as it was well played and the A’s owners have been clueless off field for 30 years now. 

[dont care]

15 hours ago, bosrs1 said:

Eventually Vegas is going to bomb out. There just isn’t enough water to support Vegas and there never has been. They’ve been living on borrowed time for decades. A same for Phoenix. And being in the middle of the desert, there’s no other source of water for either other than the Gila in AZ for Phoenix. Vegas lacks even that.  

Vegas (and the rest of the states that tap from lake Meade) have made vast improvements in water conservation and recycling. If they do run out it won’t be due to water usage but instead massive drought but by then the whole world would be ending because nothing would be getting water in the entire country.

[bosrs1]

Just now, dont care said:

Vegas (and the rest of the states that tap from lake Meade) have made vast improvements in water conservation and recycling. If they do run out it won’t be due to water usage but instead massive drought but by then the whole world would be ending because nothing would be getting water in the entire country.

 

 

Speak for yourself. We've just opened a giant desal plant near San Diego and have a couple more planned for the area. SoCal may be in the near desert and desert, but we've got direct access to the largest body of water on Earth. 

[Sport]

Agreed. As much as I love the new FC Cincinnati stadium the ideal perfect world solution would've been that it never had to be built and they'd play their home games at Paul Brown Stadium. Instead PBS takes up tons of space on our riverfront unused by the public for well over 300 days a year. We have 4 stadiums for 3 pro sports teams and a college football team who uses theirs maybe 7 times a year. It's pretty crazy when you actually think about what these teams do for the city and how often the facilities get used. 

 

I grow more horrified by each new stadium. The Rams spent 5 billion for Sofi and now all these rich guys think that's the going price and the next guy will spend 6 billion. The Rangers spent 1.2 billion to replace a 25 year old stadium and for the life of me I can't figure out where the money went. Somebody in Arlington, Texas is up to something fishy with that monstrosity. 

 

FC Cincinnati, however, just spent 250 million for a seating capacity around 26,000 and I think MLB teams should be taking notes from these Soccer Specific Stadiums. They're smaller, but they're still impressive and nice places to visits. There's gotta be ways to go about it that are economical yet still makes fans feel like they're in a big league facility. Take, IDK, 400 million and build a nice, intimate, contained facility with 30K seats, and put a simple sliding roof on it if you need AC because you live in a place too hot for people to exist. But there's absolutely no reason we need to be spending the GDP of St kitts and Nevis on a baseball stadium other than the billionaires want to measure wallets against other billionaires.  

 

 

[Red Comet]

Not to mention that solar powered desalination is becoming more and more of a thing.

 

Granted what MIT has is merely a small-scale functional prototype but I can only imagine that the demand for something like this plus drastic upscaling as fresh water sources get harder and harder to come by will only get bigger.   The conversation on water reminds me of what I heard about oil growing up and now the issue isn’t peak oil supply as it is peak oil demand. Difference in this scenario is that water is a hell of a lot more renewable than oil. You could probably repurpose those oil pipelines for water as oil demand keeps declining. Granted you’d have to clean the hell out of them but there you go.
 

If Vegas is going to decline, I don’t think water demand or supply will be the main factor so much as it is Vegas (and Nevada by extension) losing its exclusivity on sports gambling and thus down the line it’s relative exclusivity on high-end gambling+entertainment. And as more and more states legalize sports betting, the countdown to that time has long since begun.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Red Comet

[SFGiants58]

14 hours ago, bosrs1 said:

 

 

Before. Though SF emptying out into the east bay hasn’t been helping matters. The Giants made major inroads in the Bonds/roids era, sealed the deal with the World Series runs, and stuck the knife in the A’s locally when they killed San Jose. I mean more power to them as it was well played and the A’s owners have been clueless off field for 30 years now. 

If anything, the Tampa Bay threat was the best thing that could’ve ever happened for the Giants.

 

Hear me out, without the deal from the Naimoli group, the local group doesn’t by the team. No local group, no Bonds. No Bonds, no resurgence. No resurgence, no new stadium in China Basin.
 

That stadium (financed privately and with back door subsidies) made the domination of the Giants possible in that market, since the stadium was now a destination instead of a monument to Horace Stoneham’s immense stupidity. Without a “destination” park, the A’s fell behind for good. Add on the A’s failure to sustain success or make a big splash in free agency (like Bonds) and it’s no wonder why they fell behind.

[dont care]

1 hour ago, bosrs1 said:

 

 

Speak for yourself. We've just opened a giant desal plant near San Diego and have a couple more planned for the area. SoCal may be in the near desert and desert, but we've got direct access to the largest body of water on Earth. 

So that means even more water available for Vegas, I fail to see what your argument is?

[SFGiants58]

If you want to build a new stadium, just use the existing stadium and renovate it to the point of Theseus’ Ship. It worked for the Dolphins!

 

Seriously, Inter Miami should suck it up and play there. MLS in general should remove the SSS requirement from the league. 

[TBGKon]

17 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

If you want to build a new stadium, just use the existing stadium and renovate it to the point of Theseus’ Ship. It worked for the Dolphins!

 

Seriously, Inter Miami should suck it up and play there. MLS in general should remove the SSS requirement from the league. 

True, but Inter Miami built this on the site of old Lockhart Stadium in Fort Lauderdale, but still wants their own stadium in Miami proper.

 

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Lockhart looks great on TV and Miami will be underwater in like 10 years anyway. It's perfect just the way it is.

[bosrs1]

3 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

If anything, the Tampa Bay threat was the best thing that could’ve ever happened for the Giants.

 

Hear me out, without the deal from the Naimoli group, the local group doesn’t by the team. No local group, no Bonds. No Bonds, no resurgence. No resurgence, no new stadium in China Basin.
 

That stadium (financed privately and with back door subsidies) made the domination of the Giants possible in that market, since the stadium was now a destination instead of a monument to Horace Stoneham’s immense stupidity. Without a “destination” park, the A’s fell behind for good. Add on the A’s failure to sustain success or make a big splash in free agency (like Bonds) and it’s no wonder why they fell behind.

 

 

I don't think you'll find anyone who disagrees with that assessment. The Giants as they exist today are a direct result of that near move to what is now Tropicana Field. 

[bosrs1]

2 hours ago, dont care said:

So that means even more water available for Vegas, I fail to see what your argument is?

 

Not really. California's piece of the water rights to the Colorado River will still be utilized due to CA's own growing need and it's agricultural needs. And as they are senior to Nevada and Arizona's, California will continue to take priority. That's not going away even if CA takes some pressure off the water system in coming years from the cities from desal.  

[GDAWG]

3 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

If anything, the Tampa Bay threat was the best thing that could’ve ever happened for the Giants.

 

Hear me out, without the deal from the Naimoli group, the local group doesn’t by the team. No local group, no Bonds. No Bonds, no resurgence. No resurgence, no new stadium in China Basin.
 

That stadium (financed privately and with back door subsidies) made the domination of the Giants possible in that market, since the stadium was now a destination instead of a monument to Horace Stoneham’s immense stupidity. Without a “destination” park, the A’s fell behind for good. Add on the A’s failure to sustain success or make a big splash in free agency (like Bonds) and it’s no wonder why they fell behind.

 

Oracle Park is a beautiful stadium.  Better than that monstrosity the Rangers are playing.