More "Offensive" NCAA Mascots.

[Korkie]

According to an ESPN.com article Utah (Utes) and Central Michigan (Chippewas) have been removed from the banned names list as well.

[Joshawaggie]

lets see, the Chippewa, Ute and Seminole nation have no problems, but now it looks like the Sioux are gonna hafta change...

[FiddySicks]

I'm offended by the nickname for the University of North Texas!!!

Accually, i think they changed it to the Eagles this season. Either that or ESPN.com is way off

[Seadragon76]

No, but nice try.

They've been the Mean Green since the 1970's, when 'Mean' Joe Greene played in Denton. They've also used the Eagles moniker too. It's just your choice of what you use.

[Gary]

lets see, the Chippewa, Ute and Seminole nation have no problems, but now it looks like the Sioux are gonna hafta change...

Have they appealed?

[Joshawaggie]

lets see, the Chippewa, Ute and Seminole nation have no problems, but now it looks like the Sioux are gonna hafta change...

Have they appealed?

there was a meeting between the Sioux tribe, and now all of a sudden they are offended....

[Cujo]

lets see, the Chippewa, Ute and Seminole nation have no problems, but now it looks like the Sioux are gonna hafta change...

Have they appealed?

there was a meeting between the Sioux tribe, and now all of a sudden they are offended....

North Dakota is better than that anyways. If the Sioux indians don't want the schools mascot to be called the Fighting Sioux, then UND can find a better name. And that goes for all schools involved. That's how I feel about all this bullplop.

[Joshawaggie]

I guess we could go back to the Fighting Flickertails like they used to be back in teh early 1900's...

[Redlands, CA]

I guess we could go back to the Fighting Flickertails like they used to be back in teh early 1900's...

LOL

[winghaz]

lets see, the Chippewa, Ute and Seminole nation have no problems, but now it looks like the Sioux are gonna hafta change...

What's funny is the Turtle Mountain Chippewa tribe in North Dakota has said the Sioux nickname is not offensive, that it's just fine.

One problem, though: The Chippewas and Sioux were old enemies.

What I would like to hear, however, is why Sioux is considered by some to be offensive.

[VitaminD]

What I would like to hear, however, is why Sioux is considered by some to be offensive.

And what I'd like to hear is what word or phrase or object exists that is 100% not offensive to anybody. Everyone has something they find objective or distasteful; the issue is how many likeminded people agree with the offended.

[redsfan39]

What I would like to hear, however, is why Sioux is considered by some to be offensive.

And what I'd like to hear is what word or phrase or object exists that is 100% not offensive to anybody. Everyone has something they find objective or distasteful; the issue is how many likeminded people agree with the offended.

persons are not dumb, people are dumb. thats why mobs all start when some moron says something like "yeah right!" and everyone joins in "yeah!"

[pcgd]

I got my alumni newsletter today from Carthage. In it they touched on the nickname dispute, that being the Redmen. The president wrote a long letter talking about how the name has never been ment to be used degroatory, and basically restating everything they've said so far: Screw you.

But the kinda interesting thing was, he said in this letter that Carthage was in a "unique situation." Although many teams had been called the Redmen before, all were forced to change their names, none did so in a democratic process. Therefore, he has decided that if a movement is broght forth by the students and faculty to change the name, it will be put to a vote by students, alumni, faculty, and area residents to determine the outcome. He ended by saying that "We will not be forced to change or not change our name by the NCAA."

Personally, I'd like to see it go. Like all things, its intentions were good at the time (Redmen was selected (supposidly) becaue the High School in Carthage Illinois, the original location of the college, was known as the Blue Boys.) The name has taken on a different meaning that many find offensive. Its a situation similar to the rebel flag in Mississippi. To many people, the flag waving had no racial meaning behind it, I mean they were waving supporting a team of players of all races. However, no matter what they intended, the Rebel flag DOES have a meaning now that is racial. Hense, correctly was ended.

[infrared41]

That should read WHite Liberals witrh nothing better to do.

I am a white liberal as well as a Cherokee liberal (I am what you right wingers like to refer to as a halfbreed) who does not have a problem with names like Seminoles and Illini. Redskins and Redmen truly offensive names and I do have a problem them. No one is called the Blackmen, Whitemen, or Yellowmen. And before the "Fighting Irish" debate even starts let me point out that it's one thing if you design your own caricature of your people but it's a different story when someone else characterizes your race or ethnicity in a stereotypical fashion. That is why it's not the same thing as Notre Dame's logo. It's not like the Native people designed the little Fighting Irish guy and can't figure out why the Irish don't like it. Hopefully this will help shed some light on the debate.

I also agree that if the Seminole and Illini nations are cool with FSU and Illinois then the NCAA should stay out of it. As we have seen over the years large white organizations don't have the greatest track record when it comes to making decisions for the Native people. The NCAA should stick to doing what it does best. Let me rephrase that, the NCAA should find something it's actually good at and start doing it.

Also, I think the Sioux are actually called Lakota so maybe their problem with it is that if you're going to use their name at least get it right.

[OnWis97]

That should read WHite Liberals witrh nothing better to do.

I am a white liberal as well as a Cherokee liberal (I am what you right wingers like to refer to as a halfbreed) who does not have a problem with names like Seminoles and Illini. Redskins and Redmen truly offensive names and I do have a problem them. No one is called the Blackmen, Whitemen, or Yellowmen. And before the "Fighting Irish" debate even starts let me point out that it's one thing if you design your own caricature of your people but it's a different story when someone else characterizes your race or ethnicity in a stereotypical fashion. That is why it's not the same thing as Notre Dame's logo. It's not like the Native people designed the little Fighting Irish guy and can't figure out why the Irish don't like it. Hopefully this will help shed some light on the debate.

I also agree that if the Seminole and Illini nations are cool with FSU and Illinois then the NCAA should stay out of it. As we have seen over the years large white organizations don't have the greatest track record when it comes to making decisions for the Native people. The NCAA should stick to doing what it does best. Let me rephrase that, the NCAA should find something it's actually good at and start doing it.

Also, I think the Sioux are actually called Lakota so maybe their problem with it is that if you're going to use their name at least get it right.

Good post. I used to be hard core anti-native nickname, but I have sort of backed off--in part because I am a white liberal that should not determine what is offensive to other people.

But I wonder--The Semiole tribe is comfortable with FSU's name. How do they feel about the band playing the tomohawk chop? The tomohawk chop seems to me to be one of the most blatent displays of the "savage" stereotype. I tend to think that schools should not have their band play it, but then again, if it does not bother the people it is portraying, why should it bother me?

[OnWis97]

By the way:

I used to live in Peoria, IL. There was a town near there called Pekin (Peking, without the "g", so named because it is on the same longitude as Peking). Their high school used to be called the "Chinks." I kid you not. They changed in the mid-1980s.

I lived there 2000-2002. I once saw a guy wearing a jacket with the old name. I guess that guy was sticking to the PC-police, eh?

[Joshawaggie]

Also, I think the Sioux are actually called Lakota so maybe their problem with it is that if you're going to use their name at least get it right.

I understand this argument, but why has it taken this long to come to light.

Should the cities of Sioux Falls and Sioux City have to change their names?

[VitaminD]

And before the "Fighting Irish" debate even starts let me point out that it's one thing if you design your own caricature of your people but it's a different story when someone else characterizes your race or ethnicity in a stereotypical fashion. That is why it's not the same thing as Notre Dame's logo.

Better check your facts on that point.

"Fighting Irish" was every bit an anti-Irish and anti-Catholic slur directed at Notre Dame athletes by fans of other schools (most notably Northwestern) at the turn of the last century. At that time, not only was the entirety of Ireland under the rule of a foreign nation (Great Britain), but it wasn't fashionable to be non-Protestant and not of Anglo-Saxon [i.e. English] descent in the U.S.; both German and Irish immigrants were the targets of abuse, discrimination and violence. Athletic success drove the students to adopt the slur as an ironic badge of honor and pride at who they were and what they overcame.

I'm Irish and really couldn't give two cents about Notre Dame. But they took a derogatory term used by those who hated them and changed it to mean something else. Similar groups have done similar things with similar hurtful terms, but the phrase "fighting Irish" WAS a characterization of one race by another in a stereotypical fashion, which is just what you said it was not.

Choose your examples more carefully...

[worst. jersey. ever.]

i agree with infrared, that names like the seminoles and illini are not offensive, but the redskins and redmen are. i'm white, and conservative, so it insults me when people think that you have to be liberal to be openminded enough to realize that these mascots could be considered offensive to native americans. besides, i hate the redskins and wouldnt mind it if they ceased to exist

[infrared41]

and choose our examples more carefully

And before the "Fighting Irish" debate even starts let me point out that it's one thing if you design your own caricature of your people but it's a different story when someone else characterizes your race or ethnicity in a stereotypical fashion. That is why it's not the same thing as Notre Dame's logo.

Better check your facts on that point.

"Fighting Irish" was every bit an anti-Irish and anti-Catholic slur directed at Notre Dame athletes by fans of other schools (most notably Northwestern) at the turn of the last century. At that time, not only was the entirety of Ireland under the rule of a foreign nation (Great Britain), but it wasn't fashionable to be non-Protestant and not of Anglo-Saxon [i.e. English] descent in the U.S.; both German and Irish immigrants were the targets of abuse, discrimination and violence. Athletic success drove the students to adopt the slur as an ironic badge of honor and pride at who they were and what they overcame.

I'm Irish and really couldn't give two cents about Notre Dame. But they took a derogatory term used by those who hated them and changed it to mean something else. Similar groups have done similar things with similar hurtful terms, but the phrase "fighting Irish" WAS a characterization of one race by another in a stereotypical fashion, which is just what you said it was not.

Choose your examples more carefully...

My mistake on the Fighting Irish but the point remains valid. The Irish may have been a bad example but it does not make my position irrelevant. There is no need to get all in a huff over it. If you disagree with my position say so and why but don't use a poorly chosen example to try to make my overall thesis invalid and in the process try to smack me around a little. If you have a case against my position make it. Now that I have gotten that out of the way...

Despite your best efforts you actually made my point for me. The students chose the nickname Fighting Irish. It's not like a native council of the various nations was invloved in naming the Redskins, Indians, Redmen, Seminoles or Illini.

And for the record Irish is not a race neither is protestant, British, or German. Maybe we should both check our facts and choose our examples more carefully.

That said, where can I find the story of what you are referencing? Part of my family is of Irish descent so I would like to read more about the origin of the nickname.