Canadian NHL Teams

[Neon_Matrix]

Calgary Flames-see oil industry.

This argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Care to explain why not?

They just kept the name Flames from the Atlanta franchise, taken from the burning of Atlanta during the Civil War. It doesn't have anything to do with the Alberta oil industry.

The Washington White Wash would be a WICKED name if the Capitals ever change their name. It would represent how the White House got its name from the White House being burned down by us!!!!

Canada was it's own country back in 1812?

By us I mean the loyalists and the British living north of the 49th parallel.

[rams80]

Calgary Flames-see oil industry.

This argument doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Care to explain why not?

They just kept the name Flames from the Atlanta franchise, taken from the burning of Atlanta during the Civil War. It doesn't have anything to do with the Alberta oil industry.

The Washington White Wash would be a WICKED name if the Capitals ever change their name. It would represent how the White House got its name from the White House being burned down by us!!!!

Canada was it's own country back in 1812?

By us I mean the loyalists and the British living north of the 49th parallel.

I thought the Royal Navy burned Washington-the Canadians were too busy rebuilding what is now Toronto after some US soldiers decided to play arsonist.

[Shmee]

Wow. That got out of hand quickly.

I have nothing against patriotism for any country, and I'm glad that Canadians are as proud to be citizens of their country as much as I am of mine.

It just surprised me that there were so many teams with such similar names when a lot of people talk about how they hate when foreigners think that one city (usually Toronto) represents all of Canada.

[Neon_Matrix]

Wow. That got out of hand quickly.

I have nothing against patriotism for any country, and I'm glad that Canadians are as proud to be citizens of their country as much as I am of mine.

It just surprised me that there were so many teams with such similar names when a lot of people talk about how they hate when foreigners think that one city (usually Toronto) represents all of Canada.

Doesn't it? Well, you could argue we represent most of the world!

[HedleyLamarr]

By us I mean the loyalists and the British living north of the 49th parallel.

So you're saying the British burned down the White House, correct?

[IceCap]

By us I mean the loyalists and the British living north of the 49th parallel.

So you're saying the British burned down the White House, correct?

No, he's saying Canadian colonists who were living under British control control burned down Washington. Unlike you guys, we didn't piss and moan every time the British decided to, oh I don't know, actually try to run their empire.

By 1812 Canada was still under British control, but already had a great amount of home rule. The force that tourched Washington was a Canadian force, that because of Canada's colonial status, was working under the control of the British military.

[Bleujayone]

Okay fellas, everybody needs to take it down a notch. While many of these skewed history lessons are slightly facinating, we've actually brought up most of these points before in many other threads- some far more civil than others. I think a bigger point has come from this which is nobody here likes to have their patriotism questioned. Many of us will go to great lengths to not only justify it, but to weigh the value of someone else's in the process.

Regardless of which country you're from, it's quite clear that everbody here is patriotic to some degree or another. Both countries have quite a few sports teams that could be considered symbols of national pride. Both peoples are quite capeable of expressing pride, overbearing their pride, and having their pride bruised. And regardless of HOW each country got here, the fact of the matter is that we're all here in the present now. We need to respect one another without things degrading into a petty "I'm better than you" schoolyard argument.

And since we're bringing up things that have already been said, we already share so much in terms of history, society, and in this case on the board personal interests. It shouldn't have to be noted that we're all part of family. It is wrong to justify you sense of pride by tearing down someone else. People from both sides have been guilty of doing so, and it does nothing but hurt everyone. My advice to both my Yankee and Canuck bretheren is that we should show more confidence in our own personal patriotic pride by not partaking in belittling someone else's.

[leopard88]

"The Star-Spangled Banner" is the national anthem and I will always honor it.  "God Bless America" is sappy drivel that can't hold the former's C flat, doesn't deserve to be treated like the anthem, and only reminds me of that bastard bin Laden and his fostering of religious extremism.

that's for another part of the boards, but I had to say it.

Tell that to a true Philadelphia Flyers fan. For us (disregard my Whalers avatar, in honor of my wife) the song means an awful lot, irrespective of your rant. Go to the Flyers website and you can read the whole story:

http://www.philadelphiaflyers.com/history/katesmith.asp

Last time played at a game (to my knowledge) Game 6 of the Eastern Conference Finals vs Tampa Bay. I was there, and if you were, the song would probably have new meaning to you.

I'll quote the link you provided:

Over 31 years ago, on December 11, 1969, Kate Smith's recording of "God Bless America" was first played at a Flyers game. The Flyers beat the Toronto Maple Leafs, 6-3, at the Spectrum that night. That's where it all began, and "God Bless America" became "our song." Smith was enchanted by this flamboyant hockey team that found her rendition of the American folk classic to be a good luck charm. So much so that she performed the song live at the Spectrum on four occasions:

The song "means an awful lot" to Flyers fans because it is a "good luck charm." Lost most Orioles fans, I happen to like "Thank God I'm A Country Boy" because the Orioles play it during the 7th inning stretch (must to the consternation of Peter Angelos, who keeps trying to push "Take Me Out To The Ballgame" down our throats, to the point where parts of both are now played ). That does not make either song a suitable "alternative" to the actual national anthem, "The Star Spangled Banner." I'm not sure why "God Bless America" suddenly has to be treated as one.

While were at it (and moving even further off topic), can Bud Selig make the Yankees stop using Ronan Tynan's version of "God Bless America" to ice visiting teams' pitchers during playoff games? The irony is that the Yankees haven't won a World Series since adopting the practice (maybe the baseball gods have seen through their false patriotism ).

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

Regardless of which country you're from, it's quite clear that everbody here is patriotic to some degree or another.

Well, just for the record, I'd like to say that there is at least one person here (me) who is fervently anti-nationalist and repudiates patriotism. (True that this whole discsussion is better for another board; just wanted to throw in that correction of a blanket statment.)

[gbasalmon]

By us I mean the loyalists and the British living north of the 49th parallel.

So you're saying the British burned down the White House, correct?

No, he's saying Canadian colonists who were living under British control control burned down Washington. Unlike you guys, we didn't piss and moan every time the British decided to, oh I don't know, actually try to run their empire.

By 1812 Canada was still under British control, but already had a great amount of home rule. The force that tourched Washington was a Canadian force, that because of Canada's colonial status, was working under the control of the British military.

I was debating whether or not to post, but my summer job as a tour guide at Old Fort Niagara wouldn't let me not post. IIRC, the Toronto (or York) incident would be the Americans blowing up a powder magazine at Fort York, which incidentally killed Zebulon Pike, of Pike's Peak fame. Some time after that, in late 1813, the American militia who abandoned Fort George also burned down Newark (which later became Niagara-On-The-Lake), which is one of the main reasons that I've seen given that the White House was torched. Sorry if I bored anyone, but it's the future history teacher in me talking...

[nwtrailtrekker]

NHL aint the only ones...

Vancouver Canadians (MILB) comes to mind. not to mention plenty of canadian influence in logos

maple leafs, ottawa lynx, ottawa senators, vancouver giants, vancouver canadians, and pretty much any other team in canada will incorperate the leaf somewhere.

[illinirox1]

maple leafs, ottawa lynx, ottawa senators, vancouver giants, vancouver canadians, and pretty much any other team in canada will incorperate the leaf somewhere

And So will Mcdonalds

[VitaminD]

maple leafs, ottawa lynx, ottawa senators, vancouver giants, vancouver canadians, and pretty much any other team in canada will incorperate the leaf somewhere.

, dude...

Now turn that argument around, and count up the American teams that wear a.) stars; b.) red and/or white and/or blue; or c.) both. When you're finished, abandon this point. We get it. Teams wear symbols of the nations where they play. Gotcha.

[redsfan39]

maple leafs, ottawa lynx, ottawa senators, vancouver giants, vancouver canadians, and pretty much any other team in canada will incorperate the leaf somewhere.

, dude...

Now turn that argument around, and count up the American teams that wear a.) stars; b.) red and/or white and/or blue; or c.) both. When you're finished, abandon this point. We get it. Teams wear symbols of the nations where they play. Gotcha.

You're plopping me right? No fluffing way!

[wman]

The song "means an awful lot" to Flyers fans because it is a "good luck charm."

My point was there's no need to rip the song. If you've ever had the honor of hearing "God Bless America" before a Flyers game, you'd understand that while it's a good luck charm, it's also taken seriously, and as a sign of patriotism. In fact the song was initially played as a sign of patriotism--people in the building (and many other buildings) were ignoring the national anthem outright. People took notice--some complained, others liked it. So it was done again sporadically, and some one eventually noticed the Flyers won almost every time it was played. Thus the "good luck charm" was born. But it's origin was patriotic.

PS--I actually saw John Denver get up on the dugout at Camden Yards a few weeks before his death and sorta lip sync to the recording. Was really cool.

[Steve-O]

NHL aint the only ones...

Vancouver Canadians (MILB) comes to mind. not to mention plenty of canadian influence in logos

maple leafs, ottawa lynx, ottawa senators, vancouver giants, vancouver canadians, and pretty much any other team in canada will incorperate the leaf somewhere.

It is because we only have a tenth of your population and very little major (or semi-pro) sports teams.

So, when we do get one, we try to include the fact that we are Canadian. Hell, it is a great marketing strategy, it's a good way to get a whole lot of Canucks behind you.

[VitaminD]

maple leafs, ottawa lynx, ottawa senators, vancouver giants, vancouver canadians, and pretty much any other team in canada will incorperate the leaf somewhere.

, dude...

Now turn that argument around, and count up the American teams that wear a.) stars; b.) red and/or white and/or blue; or c.) both. When you're finished, abandon this point. We get it. Teams wear symbols of the nations where they play. Gotcha.

You're plopping me right? No fluffing way!

Not even a little bit.

The point I am arguing against is the contention that "pretty much any [other] team in Canada will incorporate the Leaf somewhere." OK, fine.

But before you start ripping on the Canadians for incorporating a national symbol into many of their sports teams, look at teams in your own country first. I'll even throw out the colors portion of my response, since red and blue are primary colors that just so happen to be our national colors.

How many teams use "American" symbols in their logos and wordmarks and nicknames? Quick survey:

NYC - teams have Statue of Liberty icons (Rangers), a nickname for Americans (Yankees) and a top hat bedecked with stars and stripes (Yankees).

PHILADELPHIA - team named for the year of the Revolution (76ers), team named for the symbol of FDR's New Deal (Eagles), team using a national icon in its logo (Phillies), team using stars in its logo (Phillies, 76ers)

BOSTON - team named for those who fought in the Revolution (Patriots) and a team named for the Revolution itself.

WASHINGTON - team named for being our nation's capital (Capitals), team using stars (Capitals, Nationals), team named "Nationals" that could be renamed for government officials (Senators).

I'll not go on from here because I don't have all night. And it isn't just at the major league level. Rochester Americans AHL hockey, for example.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing. What I am saying, is it's kinda foolish to blast Canadians for showing national pride when we do it just as commonly.

[tommytimp]

Part of the mythos surrounding "God Bless America is that it was written by a Russian Jew, Israel Ballin, whio changed his name to Irving Berlin to mildly assimilate himself to American culture. He wrote roughly 4 million songs, and "God Bless America" means so much to so many because he basically lived the American Dream and then wrote about it.

Topic? Ottawa's uniforms (Sens) don't have a whole lot of "Canadian content." Except for the color. But they rule nonetheless.

[cajunaggie08]

I know in my country, we went ahead and named a pro football team after the country. Ok so Texas isnt a country, as much as we think it is sometimes. But how many other staes could get away with naming their team after the state directly like that. Ok so maybe we'r enot quite gettign away with it caus ei know many people dont like the name, but its a name and we're sticking to it.

[aerodynamix]

NHL aint the only ones...

Vancouver Canadians (MILB) comes to mind. not to mention plenty of canadian influence in logos

maple leafs, ottawa lynx, ottawa senators, vancouver giants, vancouver canadians, and pretty much any other team in canada will incorperate the leaf somewhere.

If that's the case, then how come there was no Maple Leaves of any sort on any of the Toronto Phantoms logos? I mean, they did share the same house as the Leafs and the Raptors and all....

Correct me if I'm wrong...just in case.