Josh Hancock dies in auto accident

[Milo Meningocele]

Who cares if Justin says "we", really.. who the cares, its not really a big deal, why ruin threads with pointless arguing. I know its really fun for some of you to sit behind your computers and ruffle everybodies imagnary feathers, but really, cant you just sit back and relax... you dont have to type out EVERYTING that crosses your mind. If we did, some of you probably would have seeked me out and beat the crap out of me by now.

Everyone, chill. For real.

I don't think many people care that he refers to the Cards as "we". A lot of people do that; and while annoying, it's not a big deal. The main issue here is that he not only refuses to back off of--but continues to assert his inane belief that he "is a Cardinal".

Oh, and the word is "sought".

well, I dont really care if the issue is "we" or "I'm a Cardinal", its still pointless to bicker. Are you gonna change his mind? Probably not. If you do, why? How will anything be different?

oh, and the grammar police bit is wearing thin, since we're on the subject, like you bring up in every topic you post in.

Sorry, slugger. It's been said over and over again--this is a message board, using the printed word as our medium. If you can't use it to communicate effectively, maybe sports radio is more your speed.

[Fred T. Jane]

I can't believe all of your are bashing him over vocabulary, esspecially in a thread about the death of a 29 year old no matter the circumstances. Shame on you.

Horsefeathers. Milo made quite the succinct statement in putting the whole thing in perspective, and instead of just moving on, he pulled the "*sniffle* Everyone's picking on the poor persecuted Cardinals Fan" routine out of one side of his mouth whilst pretending to be on the high road with his "I'm not going to discuss this further" statements. It's no small wonder that the thread is in the current state that it's in.

As for Hancock's death, it seems the only reason for folks here thinking it was a tragedy was that he was a baseball player. Despite me knowing these folks on a much more local level in comparison to Cardinals fans and Hancock, I sure didn't say "Gee, they feel like a family member" about the five people under 21 have been killed here in Gueydan in similar circumstances, including the girlfriend of a former neighbour. Is it a tragedy for a person to die even under such self-inflicted circumstances? Definitely. Is it enough to grieve as though you knew them on a personal level? That's beginning to be a stretch.

He's not delutional. He knows he's not a part of the organization as an employee. He knows he's a fan of the team. We're all fans of teams to different levels. Some are casual. Some more die hard. Regardless, anyone that pays for a ticket, jersey, hat, etc. has supported the team. Without the fans there are no professional sports.

Beaver Biscuits. His posts and line of thinking go right along the same lines as folks on the Kop End of Anfield.

Its vocabulary. If cardinals' fans say they are "Cardinals" then so be it. I don't think its a very big number that do, but I don't see how its any different than the out of the woodwork Red Sox fans calling themselves "Red Sox Nation". And trust me, I've heard plenty of Cubs fans, Yankees fans, and others call themselves the team name. "We're all Cubbies..."

Just because other fans do it doesn't make it acceptable.

I think if you want to start a thread on how you find it annoying that people say "we" when they refer to the team they support, that's fine. But this thread should be about Joshua Morgan Hancock's tragic death, how the Cardinals', their fans, and baseball fans are dealing with it, and news related to the accident. It shouldn't be a pissing war between everyone and a die-hard cardinals' fan.

Hate to sound so harsh, or even be accused of Craven-esque behaviour, but if this discussion has your panties so twisted, you could always crack open the Moderators' Panel and split the topic. It may save everyone 'round these parts some heartburn.

DEAD!: Your sig is priceless. You sir win the Internets.

[Joshawaggie]

Who cares if Justin says "we", really.. who the cares, its not really a big deal, why ruin threads with pointless arguing. I know its really fun for some of you to sit behind your computers and ruffle everybodies imagnary feathers, but really, cant you just sit back and relax... you dont have to type out EVERYTING that crosses your mind. If we did, some of you probably would have seeked me out and beat the crap out of me by now.

Everyone, chill. For real.

I don't think many people care that he refers to the Cards as "we". A lot of people do that; and while annoying, it's not a big deal. The main issue here is that he not only refuses to back off of--but continues to assert his inane belief that he "is a Cardinal".

Oh, and the word is "sought".

well, I dont really care if the issue is "we" or "I'm a Cardinal", its still pointless to bicker. Are you gonna change his mind? Probably not. If you do, why? How will anything be different?

oh, and the grammar police bit is wearing thin, since we're on the subject, like you bring up in every topic you post in.

Sorry, slugger. It's been said over and over again--this is a message board, using the printed word as our medium. If you can't use it to communicate effectively, maybe sports radio is more your speed.

Well, I'm not gonna argue with you anymore, since it wasn't really my intent to start an argument with a single poster, but I'll just say that one error hardly constitutes being unable to communicate effectively. We all make mistakes, point it out to someone who over and over again makes horrific mistakes, not for every misplaced comma or "teh"s. It angers people, and an angry person spells more badlier,er.

Like you said, it's a message board..... could go both ways....

Peace!

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Yeah? Tnak and Gitlin have probably somewhat agreed with something I've said at some point, too.

I always agree with you. I think you're funny.

And I think STL FANATIC is a valid member of this forum too. We all have quirks. Me busting on his STL homerism -- which I would otherwise care not at all about -- one of mine.

By the way, if I could extend the discussion, I do the "we" thing. I know it's stupid. I know I'm not a member of the Syracuse Orange (I didn't even go to the school), the Bills, the Sabres or the Wizards. In fact, the only team I have a legitimate right to do that with -- the Washington Huskies -- I don't. "We" is shorthand. "We" is easier than typing or saying "My favorite team." That's all. However, I certainly don't think I'm part of the organization. If I were a shareholder in the Packers, then that might be different. Otherwise, it's just laundry.

But back on point, three cheers for Mile Menoblahblahblah.

[BB61]

I'm not arguing his use of "we". I use that term a lot. "We're winning." That doesn't bother me. It's his insinuation that he's an actual member of the organization, which he's not. He's a part of the Cardinals family, yes. I respect that. He's not a Cardinal.

Anyway, you're right, Justin. We agree to disagree.

As for this whole consversation being in bad taste considering that i was supposed to serve in memoriam of a young life, well... it seems like most "serious" threads are turned into a circus at some point anyway. You have a lot of opinionated people here. It's going to happen. Like I said before -- A man is dead, the victim of his own mistake. A young life will never be fulfilled, and those who are close to the organization should be allowed to mourn them as they wish. I think considering the poster's reputation (which is akin to another member's affiliation with a certain party *coughTNAKcough*), this was bound to happen.

Fred T. Jane gets an honorable mention for his two uses of animal excrement in the same post.

[Phil]

I'm not arguing his use of "we". I use that term a lot. "We're winning." That doesn't bother me. It's his insinuation that he's an actual member of the organization, which he's not. He's a part of the Cardinals family, yes. I respect that. He's not a Cardinal.

I'm not singling you out, Brian. However, I find it amusing that so many have continued to make this distinction. There is absolutely no difference between the two statements. Whether I say "I am a University student" or use the nominative plural pronoun to refer to myself inclusively as part of the greater body of university students, it effectively achieves entirely the same end. Yet while so many admit to the use of the latter, the use of the former is villainized, to the point of implying the existence of mental illness?

As for Hancock's death, it seems the only reason for folks here thinking it was a tragedy was that he was a baseball player.

I'd say your off base here. I'm quite certain that any rational person would react similarly to the death of a non-athlete, given the same familiarity with the person. It just so happens that you're among a group of sports fans, so lo and behold, the story is relevant and the athlete happens to be a person with which this group in particular is familiar.

Its vocabulary. If cardinals' fans say they are "Cardinals" then so be it. I don't think its a very big number that do, but I don't see how its any different than the out of the woodwork Red Sox fans calling themselves "Red Sox Nation". And trust me, I've heard plenty of Cubs fans, Yankees fans, and others call themselves the team name. "We're all Cubbies..."

Just because other fans do it doesn't make it acceptable.

It's not acceptable purely on the basis of other fans doing it, but it shows that it is not uncommon. And lest we forget, the burden of proof of such action being "unacceptable" is on the accuser, and I don't see a compelling, empirical case for that anywhere here. If there's a psychologist in the house who would like to make a ruling on whether such action is so despicable or dangerous that it should be prohibited, I'd be willing to listen. In the absence of that, I'd appreciate it if those of you holding the torches and pitchforks would back off on the judgmental and disparaging attitudes and "live and let live".

Hate to sound so harsh, or even be accused of Craven-esque behaviour, but if this discussion has your panties so twisted, you could always crack open the Moderators' Panel and split the topic. It may save everyone 'round these parts some heartburn.

It's unfortunate, but no such tool is available to us moderators. As a result, we have higher expectations from our membership in terms of sensitivity and respect.

[KDubK414]

This Josh Hancock situation hit home a lot for me.

I briskly browsed through this last page, seeing all the wrangling and negativity of it. So I am posting kinda blindly to what others have said or felt, maybe getting this thread back on track?

That beng said. I feel kinda wierd about Josh's death. I have lost A LOT of close ones to me, most notably MY MOM!!! Plus I have felt close to quite a few Sports and Entertainment deaths. As far as the sports ones go, the ones that impacted me the most are Dale Earnhardt, Reggie White(though retired), my one and only Packer game I attended till now he was there, and ran with the (G) Flag outta the tunnel and across the field! Also with musicians like Dave Williams from Drowning Pool, saw him 4 days before he died, and Stevie Ray Vaughn, I saw the hill he died on many times at Alpine Valley. And wrestlers, saw and even said hi to a few of them... Andre the Giant, Owen Heart, Mr. Perfect, and Eddie Guerrero just weeks/months before they did too!!!

Everytime something bad happened, usually when someone close would pass on, my mom would say "Life goes on." It's her words that helped me get over her passing on at the time. It still hurts and makes me sad that she isn't here sometimes. She was a Cubs fan and kinda made me one too I made my FIRST trip to Wrigley, and she wasn't there to talk about it She woulda been so proud

My point is that we have all felt loss in some point in our lives. It's up to those that are still living to carry on the memories, yet move on and make the best of thier lives. A Lot of people know how to. But, there are some that don't. For the Cardinals, they should take on his spirit and plug along. There are players among the league that have known him as well, like Jeff Suppan who did what Josh woulda wanted. That's to go out and play hard!!!!

Josh Hancock was a big part of St. Louis winning the World Series, and a really good pitcher. Most of all though, he was a stellar Human!!!

Kyle

[leopard88]

Every team has a fan base. In the case of the Red Sox, it's "Red Sox Nation". Other teams nicknames for their own fan bases as well. The fan base uses a collective "we" when referring to the team. It doesn't make them a part of the team, just the fan base. "We" (the Red Sox) won the World Series in 2004. It doesn't make me a member of the Red Sox. I am no more a member of the Red Sox than Chris Creamer (a Jays fan), JQK (Yankees), Tank (Mets), Joel_fiasco (Tigers), etc.

In the many times I have seen members of the fan base call the their teams "us" and "we" during highs and lows of the team, I have never seen a fan refer to himself as a member of the team itself.

You are a Cardinals fan. You are not a Cardinal, unless you cash a paycheck every 2 weeks in the name of the St. Louis Cardinals Baseball Club.

If you want to grieve as a member of the Cardinals fan base, baseball in general, sports in general, or humanity, no one should stop you. It is a very sad situation that looks more frightening and irresponsible the more news that comes out about it.

But presenting yourself under the delusion that you're a part of the team is very sad, and considering the past instances of "homerism" that have blinded you, is not a pretty picture at all.

Yea, I agree.

. . . and have nothing more to add.

Oh, yeah . . . R.I.P. Josh Hancock.

[McCall]

I am so F***ing sick of hearing all this "you can't say we because you're not a payed employee of the organization" Bulls***. It's f***ing disgraceful in a thread about a man who lost his life. Have some decency. If you don't like our usage of terms, start another thread where your free to bitch and gripe all you want with no expectations of being labeled an @$$hole. However, this is not the place for that and it's all the disrespectful jerks that have turned this into that kind of thread. STLFanatic stated how he was feeling about the loss of a player on his favorite team, a team he has grown up rooting for. And then all you guys start jumping on him for using the word "we"....I mean a simple little thing that you couldn't let slide and had to go off on him about. Grow the f*** up. Shees. I thought I had more respect for some of you. Some I had expected it from. And others have tried telling you this is not the place for it. But you just ignore them and try to find something to rip about on them.

If any of my language was offensive to those who had not posted anything disrespectful or in defense of the integrity of this particular thread, I greatly apologize and meant no disrespect to you. If any of you who had been offended by Fanatic's use of the word "we", I sure as hell hope you still have some respect for yourself after what this thread turned into, cuz I don't think I have any for you anymore.

And go ahead, rip me apart for this if you want. I don't care. Just not in here. Not this thread.

I'll end on a relevent statement for this topic, a simle prayer (I am a Catholic as well by the way):

May God Bless the Hancock Family and all of the Cardinals, and Cardinals fans, as well as those in Major League Baseball and anywhere else who were fortunate to have had the oppurtunity to either play with or simply know Josh Hancock. May He rest in Peace for Eternity. Amen.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

It wasn't the "we," it was the "I am a Cardinal."

Weirdo.

[leopard88]

It wasn't the "we," it was the "I am a Cardinal."

Weirdo.

Exactly . . .

. . . minus the "weirdo" part, anyway (which I assume was sarcastic).

[Ez Street]

It wasn't the "we," it was the "I am a Cardinal."

Weirdo.

Couldn't just state it without using a word to try and insight further complications could you?

[DEAD!]

It wasn't the "we," it was the "I am a Cardinal."

Weirdo.

Couldn't just state it without using a word to try and insight further complications could you?

Viagra!

[DG_ThenNowForever]

It wasn't the "we," it was the "I am a Cardinal."

Weirdo.

Couldn't just state it without using a word to try and insight further complications could you?

No, no...I couldn't. "Weirdo" is funny, while "disrespectful jerk" and "@$$hole" are mean and angry. I wanted to diffuse the situation.

[BB61]

It wasn't the "we," it was the "I am a Cardinal."

Weirdo.

Couldn't just state it without using a word to try and incite further complications could you?

No, no...I couldn't. "Weirdo" is funny, while "disrespectful jerk" and "@$$hole" are mean and angry. I wanted to diffuse the situation.

You're the weirdo, weirdo.

[STL FANATIC]

You won't see me getting into anything else in this thread, or likely any other threads for some time.

But I do want to update the story.

Two things came out today, one definitely confirmed, the other not completley.

The first is that a small amount of marijuana was found in the wrecked explorer.

The second is that someone has come forward with a claim that Josh had a girlfriend, sounds like a dancer, and that he was text messaging her right up until the crash.

So you may have text-messaging as one of a few things impairing him when it happened.

We'll see. That's the latest on the what happened part of it.

As for the what's happening, the Cardinals are being a little more open about things and trying to determine what if anything they need to do as an organization.

[Sodboy13]

So he was stoned/drunk/over-tired and texting a stripper when he T-boned a tow truck.

When will Cardinal Nation start making the petition to enshrine this fallen hero in the Hall of Fame, like they did with DK57?

[rams80]

So he was stoned/drunk/over-tired and texting a stripper when he T-boned a tow truck.

When will Cardinal Nation start making the petition to enshrine this fallen hero in the Hall of Fame, like they did with DK57?

No. ('Course Kyle didn't belong in the Hall either...)

I'm dissappointed with the decisions he was apparently making, but I still feel bad for his family.

No comment one way or the other on the "We are Cardinals" thing...

[BB61]

So he was stoned/drunk/over-tired and texting a stripper when he T-boned a tow truck.

When will Cardinal Nation start making the petition to enshrine this fallen hero in the Hall of Fame, like they did with DK57?

No. ('Course Kyle didn't belong in the Hall either...)

I'm dissappointed with the decisions he was apparently making, but I still feel bad for his family.

No comment one way or the other on the "We are Cardinals" thing...

Sodboy -- I think he's automatically on the ballot for next season, just like Kyle was, correct?

rams80 -- ditto, on both counts.

[Sodboy13]

I'm dissappointed with the decisions he was apparently making, but I still feel bad for his family.

Agreed on that. It's a tragic loss for his family and loved ones, regardless of circumstance - perhaps even more tragic if his death was one so easily prevented. Hopefully, lessons can come from his behavior.

I hope you realize the certain subsection of Cardinal fans to which I was referring.