Bills may play in Toronto

[Viper]

It sounds like a lot of people are operating under the continued delusion that Canada is "America Junior", with funny extra "u"s thrown in words to be contrarian.

As some have mentioned, the CFL is a big deal in Canada. The league operates soundly, the style play is ingrained into Canadian culture, and the economics are such that top-level teams can be sustained in Canadian cities from coast to coast. Just because Toronto is a large, English-speaking North American city does not mean that the Canadians are going to roll over and jettison their football.

In the end, sad to say, the brand of football that fans in Canada at large might prefer will probably carry little weight in this matter - it's what football fans the corporate sector in metro Toronto (whom the NFL and any Toronto team ownership would be counting upon heavily for season ticket sales, luxury suite bookings, sponsorships, ad revenue, etc.) would prefer. If corporate Toronto decides to switch its allegiance from the Argos to some NFL team that moves there, it's bye-bye Argos and probably bye-bye CFL, regardless of what the rest of Canada thinks.

It'd be like the Giants and Jets fleeing New York.

Umm... the Giants and Jets both did flee New York. Neither team has even played in New York state for about a generation, but last time I checked, the NFL is still doing kinda-sorta okay in spite of this. And NYC fans apparently don't mind that "their" teams are actually playing in Sopranoland either.

Nearly 40% of Canada's entire population lives in greater Toronto; depriving their anchor market of their game would basically forsake a historic piece of Canadian culture to have another piece of Americana rammed down their throats. The 5th largest Canadian city (Edmonton) isn't even half the size of the 5th largest city in the US (Phoenix); it's about the same size by population as Columbus, Ohio - our 15th largest city. Even Metro Calgary barely has 1 million people; by comparison, metro Cincinnati (#25) has twice that. The CFL couldn't maintain itself without Toronto, and no matter how many Canadian fans the NFL has, I can't see most Canadians being willing to let their own culture be subjugated at the hands of the US.

Unfortunately, as I mentioned above, I can see corporate Toronto effectively taking that decision out of most Canadians' hands.

[lopernv]

IMO, if I were to move the Bills to Toronto, I would suggest that the stadium would be built in nearby Mississauga

Mississauga is the world's biggest suburb, not a city, IMO of course.

[lopernv]

Nearly 40% of Canada's entire population lives in greater Toronto; depriving their anchor market of their game would basically forsake a historic piece of Canadian culture to have another piece of Americana rammed down their throats. The 5th largest Canadian city (Edmonton) isn't even half the size of the 5th largest city in the US (Phoenix); it's about the same size by population as Columbus, Ohio - our 15th largest city. Even Metro Calgary barely has 1 million people; by comparison, metro Cincinnati (#25) has twice that. The CFL couldn't maintain itself without Toronto, and no matter how many Canadian fans the NFL has, I can't see most Canadians being willing to let their own culture be subjugated at the hands of the US.

I think the CFL is bigger where there is no NFL team near, like Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Saskatchewan, Hamilton (to a certain extent). I think the Seahawks are bigger in Vancouver (just a guess) and the Bills are bigger in Toronto.

[hormone]

What about season tix holders? Will their price be reduced? How can the city be for this? Aren't they losing money in hotels, parking, food, concessions, etc?

[STL FANATIC]

I don't want to piss anybody off, but the CFL is inferior because of talent level.

The best players in the world by in large play in the NFL. Yes, the games are a little different, but they're close enough that players can make the adjustment. And they do if they get the opportunity to play in the NFL. Similarly, NFL retreads make the adjustment to play in the CFL.

From the little amount of CFL I've been able to watch, I've enjoyed it. But the league is technically inferior to the NFL.

[DEAD!]

I don't want to piss anybody off, but the CFL is inferior because of talent level.

The best players in the world by in large play in the NFL. Yes, the games are a little different, but they're close enough that players can make the adjustment. And they do if they get the opportunity to play in the NFL. Similarly, NFL retreads make the adjustment to play in the CFL.

From the little amount of CFL I've been able to watch, I've enjoyed it. But the league is technically inferior to the NFL.

Yes, the talent is inferior. That's because we just don't pay the players enough...

I don't know if the majority of the NFL retreads can make the adjustment in the CFL, particularly the linemen. You won't find too many 300 lb linemen in the CFL. The skilled positions, I think, are more able to make the adjustment.

[CC97]

I don't want to piss anybody off, but the CFL is inferior because of talent level.

The best players in the world by in large play in the NFL. Yes, the games are a little different, but they're close enough that players can make the adjustment. And they do if they get the opportunity to play in the NFL. Similarly, NFL retreads make the adjustment to play in the CFL.

From the little amount of CFL I've been able to watch, I've enjoyed it. But the league is technically inferior to the NFL.

Yes, and Ricky Williams dominated when he was up here. (not really)

[JH42XCC]

If either the Bills or Vikings move to Toronto, they might be renamed the Argonauts after the current CFL team in Toronto, if and when they fold. But I hope the Argos don't fold when either team move into their neighborhood.

Speaking of the Argos, shouldn't they have their own stadium by now in Mississauga, or on the campus of York University, or maybe where the old Exhibition Stadium used to stand? Well I guess that never happened.

[DDR]

If either the Bills or Vikings move to Toronto, they might be renamed the Argonauts after the current CFL team in Toronto, if and when they fold. But I hope the Argos don't fold when either team move into their neighborhood.

Speaking of the Argos, shouldn't they have their own stadium by now in Mississauga, or on the campus of York University, or maybe where the old Exhibition Stadium used to stand? Well I guess that never happened.

Has that been mentioned as a possibility in the media or anywhere else, or is that your random speculation similar to if I said they might be renamed the Toronto 51st-Staters?

[DEAD!]

If either the Bills or Vikings move to Toronto, they might be renamed the Argonauts after the current CFL team in Toronto, if and when they fold. But I hope the Argos don't fold when either team move into their neighborhood.

Speaking of the Argos, shouldn't they have their own stadium by now in Mississauga, or on the campus of York University, or maybe where the old Exhibition Stadium used to stand? Well I guess that never happened.

well ... The Argos train in Mississauga, (Mississauga is running out of available space) they tried York, that did not turn out well, and Exhibition Stadium is now BMO field. I say, if they try to find their own place, they try to find places north of Toronto like Vaughan. They have plenty of room up there.

[STL FANATIC]

I don't want to piss anybody off, but the CFL is inferior because of talent level.

The best players in the world by in large play in the NFL. Yes, the games are a little different, but they're close enough that players can make the adjustment. And they do if they get the opportunity to play in the NFL. Similarly, NFL retreads make the adjustment to play in the CFL.

From the little amount of CFL I've been able to watch, I've enjoyed it. But the league is technically inferior to the NFL.

Yes, and Ricky Williams dominated when he was up here. (not really)

Right. Didn't say every NFL player would dominate in the CFL.

Are you really arguing that the best football players don't aspire to play in the NFL?

Maybe I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. But it seems to me, that the NFL is the goal.

[Phil]

Would the NFL actually let Toronto get an expansion/moved franchise before LA? I just don't see it happening without a franchise in LA.

Does the NFL have much of a say in relocation? I mean doesn't the final decision of where to move a team really come down to who the owner is (barring something rediculous that the NFL could stop). Also the relocated team's conference may come into play. Would the NFL want LA to have an AFC team with San Diego so close? You could change the conferences, but there might be some big time changes since the team would be moving across the country and switching conferences.

I'm pretty sure the NFL Board of Governors have veto power on any move; that said, the owner would have to be the initiate the whole move, and so if he doesn't want to go to LA, the team's not going.

[Phil]

I don't want to piss anybody off, but the CFL is inferior because of talent level.

The best players in the world by in large play in the NFL. Yes, the games are a little different, but they're close enough that players can make the adjustment. And they do if they get the opportunity to play in the NFL. Similarly, NFL retreads make the adjustment to play in the CFL.

From the little amount of CFL I've been able to watch, I've enjoyed it. But the league is technically inferior to the NFL.

Yes, and Ricky Williams dominated when he was up here. (not really)

Right. Didn't say every NFL player would dominate in the CFL.

Are you really arguing that the best football players don't aspire to play in the NFL?

Maybe I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. But it seems to me, that the NFL is the goal.

I agree that that's the goal, but that doesn't always guarantee that the top talent exists solely in the NFL.

For instance, imagine if Drew Bledsoe had been a little more resilient... it's not impossible to imagine that Tom Brady or Tony Romo might never have seen extended playing time, time enough to make an impression and earn the starting job. Would they have made it elsewhere? Perhaps, but what happens when the next year, the highly-touted draft pick comes along, the guy with the physical tools that Brady or Romo don't have...? Suddenly you're third or fourth on the depth chart, with a quarter of a pre-season game determining whether you're earning a cool half-million in Texas or negotiating for a tryout with the Hamilton Tiger-Cats.

It serves to illustrate that making it in the NFL is as much taking advantage of the limited opportunities and generating tangible results in said opportunities as it is about being the best football player. Many great players have fallen through the cracks before, and many will continue to do so.

The NFL's money will continue to ensure that players aspire to play there, and that alone will ensure that the largest proportion of top talent ends up there was as well. But the CFL is loaded with individuals (let's see... Geroy Simon, Nik Lewis, Matt Dominguez, Milt Stegall, Derick Armstrong, Arland Bruce, Kerry Watkins - and those are just receivers) who probably could've made a decent NFL living if they had been the beneficiaries of a few NFLers on the depth chart ahead of them going down with Training Camp inuries. As it is, they happen to be well-suited for the Canadian game, and so they are well-compensated (if not extravagantly so) for their efforts north of the 49th.

Additionally, the CFL is conducive to the inclusion of fantastic talents who, for whatever reason, don't fit the NFL mold. Guys like Pinball Clemons, Charles Roberts, and even Doug Flutie were written off by the powers that be in The League because they were too small. They've all had great CFL careers, and in Flutie's case, he proved later that even a David can have success in a league of Goliaths.

The reality is that the NFL has better players, yes, but the CFL has enough quality talents combining with a highly entertaining brand of football to make it the best football league on the planet for hundreds of thousands of Canadians (and even a few outside of the Great White North) every year.

[JH42XCC]

If either the Bills or Vikings move to Toronto, they might be renamed the Argonauts after the current CFL team in Toronto, if and when they fold. But I hope the Argos don't fold when either team move into their neighborhood.

Speaking of the Argos, shouldn't they have their own stadium by now in Mississauga, or on the campus of York University, or maybe where the old Exhibition Stadium used to stand? Well I guess that never happened.

well ... The Argos train in Mississauga, (Mississauga is running out of available space) they tried York, that did not turn out well, and Exhibition Stadium is now BMO field. I say, if they try to find their own place, they try to find places north of Toronto like Vaughan. They have plenty of room up there.

Maybe I should add Etobicoke and Scarborough to the list of possibilities for a new Argos stadium.

[JH42XCC]

(deleted: double post)

[OMMF]

It'd be like the Giants and Jets fleeing New York.

Umm... the Giants and Jets both did flee New York. Neither team has even played in New York state for about a generation

I'm pretty sure the Jets have played a road game against the Bills at some point in the last 16+ years.

[njmeadowlanders]

It'd be like the Giants and Jets fleeing New York.

Umm... the Giants and Jets both did flee New York. Neither team has even played in New York state for about a generation

I'm pretty sure the Jets have played a road game against the Bills at some point in the last 16+ years.

Well I sure as heck wouldn't count what they did up at RWS back in Week 4 "playing"...that's for sure...

But like I've said, Buffalo goes back to the old AFL days...it'd be a real shame to see that (Boston/)NE-BUF and BUF-NYJ thing die....yeah it'd be the same franchise, but it wouldn't be the same...

It'd also be a shame to the city, their fans, the franchise as a whole, and on and on and on.

[Lee.]

I don't want to piss anybody off, but the CFL is inferior because of talent level.

The best players in the world by in large play in the NFL. Yes, the games are a little different, but they're close enough that players can make the adjustment. And they do if they get the opportunity to play in the NFL. Similarly, NFL retreads make the adjustment to play in the CFL.

From the little amount of CFL I've been able to watch, I've enjoyed it. But the league is technically inferior to the NFL.

meh, never mind, Phil was much more eloquent in his defense of the CFL than I was.

[illwauk]

The Bills DID play an exhibition game in Toronto against Green Bay in 1997. Was there as much speculation about the Bills moving there back then?

Either way, I don't like the idea of the NFL going to Toronto. The only way I could see the CFL surviving as something but a prairie-centered shell of its former self is if they were somehow able to keep Hamilton alive (which could happen if the Ti-Cats become the refuge for Argos fans in exile). And then successfully moved the former Argos to either Ottawa (which has already folded two teams) or Halifax (which might be too small).

BTW, LA will never get a team. The owners don't want a team there so they can always threaten to move there to get local taxpayers to pony up for a new stadium.

[BaltimoreFan]

BTW, LA will never get a team. The owners don't want a team there so they can always threaten to move there to get local taxpayers to pony up for a new stadium.

Not so sure about that. They can really just use any city can't then. If/When LA gets a team owners would just use Toronto or some other city. There will always be another city for them to threaten a move to.