Super Bowl XLII

[gingerbreadmann]

I'm not going to reply to the whole post there Mantle, but some quick thoughts:

-I don't know, but I think this team with Matt Cassel leading the team is just a smidgen less potent, right?

-I admit the AFC East is weak, but they played some quality out of conference opponents, many on the road(Indy, Dallas, Giants, etc.)

-I didn't know sarcasm when responding to a silly prediction was considered classless

-Anyone who still says Brady can't perform under pressure is bull****. I have no idea how you could say that. He didn't produce a 4th-quarter drive to take the lead, did he? Oh yeah, he did, even last night. It's the DEFENSE that couldn't hold when it mattered most, even though Brady was off much of the night.

Just my initial reactions to your response.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

By the way, I'd take Brady over Eli any day.

Your post was good, but this is the only part I wanted to highlight. Yes, my avatar notwithstanding, Tom Brady is the quarterback I'd want for my team. Remember, the Giants D beat the piss out of Brady and the Pats all night long, but they STILL needed a couple of miracles with 30 seconds to go in order to pull out the win. Any other team in there, and the Giants would have won going away. They squeaked out a three point win and needed several miracles to make it happen.

Any notion that the Patriots are somehow a bad team is ridiculous on its face. They were 30 seconds from a perfect, dominant season, and that says quite a bit. I think the team is led by a self-important cheating douchebag, and much of its fanbase is frustratingly annoying, but you cannot question the ability or heart of any of the players.

[Fred T. Jane]

I have seen the Patriots offense described this year as a knock off on the GSOT offense. (I don't think its a complete clone-you need two reliable deep threats for starters, but I agree it shares aspects with it.) Points #1 and #2 are the best ways historically to stop the GSOT offense. Maybe Coughlin and his DC busted out some old game tapes from the Martz-era Rams to go with his game tapes from Week 17.

The one flaw with the GSOT was that its complexity means "Plan B" may not exist-not enough time to throw one together. Just a thought.

I'm pretty much a Philistine when it comes to dissecting play calling, but the Patriots offence looked to me this season more like a generic college spread offence with a single deep threat and a not-quite-existential running game. By comparison Martz's offence was much more vertically oriented and was much more willing to hand the ball off than the Patriots seemed to be.

[Roger Clemente]

I decided to send Bill Simmons an e-mail. I felt I might as well post it here.

<begin>

In 2004, Boston stomped back unexpectedly from overwhelming odds and history breathing down their neck and crushed New York's ability to ever chant the number 18 again as a sign of epic failure.

So funny how exactly 1200 days later, New York just did the same thing to Boston and put the number 18 right back again on top of that pedestal of epic failure. Only this time, the 19 that used to accompany is not going to see the light of day.

Humbling isn't it?

<end>

[Epiphanic]

Oooooooookay. First off, to answer your MVP question, they'res a certain guy named, oh what was it, I think his name is Brad Favre,

Actually, I think his name is Brett.

no sorry BRETT Favre.

Oh you made a joke. I get jokes.

He plays for this team called the Green Bay Packers and had what we football fans like to call a "stellar" season.

Are you suggesting that I'm not a football fan because I don't think that Mr. Favre should have the MVP? Maybe you're suggesting that if I was a football fan I'd understand what a "stellar" season is. Clearly I should yield to your "stellar" football fan opinion. (Did I use the adjective right?)

And also, he is in his late thirties, nearing forty,

I, not being a football fan, didn't know that being old was a prerequisite for being MVP.

and played some incredible football, even better than my fav player, Peyton Manning, in my opinion. My MVP vote would glady go to him.

So play better than Peyton Manning, get your MVP vote. Got it.

Here's a few QB stats from this past season

Peyton Manning's QB Rating = 98.0 (rank: 4)

Brett Favre's QB Rating = 95.7 (rank: 6)

Tom Brady's QB Rating = 117.2 (rank: 1)

Manning's TD/INT = 31/14

Favre's TD/INT = 28/15

Tom Brady's TD/INT = 50/8

Manning's Yd Avg = 7.8 (rank: T-3)

Favre's Yd Avg = 7.8 (rank: T-3)

Tom Brady's Yd Avg = 8.3 (rank: 1)

Looking at various QB stats I say the pecking order is this: Brady > Manning > Favre. Favre didn't play better than Manning (it was close) but still wins the MVP over a guy that played better than both of them?

Ok, so Brady got the TD record,

Throwing more TD passes in a single season than any QB in history sounds pretty "stellar" to me.

but be honest. This is the best season Farve has just about ever had.

So Brett has his best year ever so he deserves it even if other players have a better year? I'm learning more about the MVP with each line!

And MVP stands for Most Valuable Player. The Pats have like 300 weapons on that team, all equal in value. No player on that Packer squad was more valuable than Favre. That's my stand.

That's your opinion. I'm sure I could find many other football fans that think Brady is the most valuable player on the Patriot team.

And I'm not on any high horse. Nor was I ever. I was just pointing out that the Patriots "humble pie" was really bull crap, especially how Brady was laughing at Buress's prediction. YOU TELL ME WHAT KIND OF CLASS THAT IS? And now Brady deservingly looks like the cocky jock who finally got it handed to him because they didnt even score 17, like what Brady laughed at. So if you're gonna tell anyone to get off thier high horse, tell New England to. I don't see how calling the cocky out makes me cocky at all.

Tell me, what kind of class did Plaxico exhibit by calling out the league's most potent offense? Just sayin'.

His three rings came in games where he didnt really have extreme defensive pressure. And I think the real person who stood up to pressure was a little future hall of famer named Adam Vinateri. You're gonna give Brady the credit for those rings? Please. Brady didnt kick two straight Super Bowl winning field goals. Vinateri did.

Yes. I am giving credit to Brady for those victories. He led the drive to get within range for Vinateri to make the winning FG. That's not to say that he's the only person that deserves credit, but he certainly deserves some of it.

As for that schedule, you play the Jets, Bills, and Dolphins twice in a year. Now tell me that's not a cupcake schedule.

None of those teams had the balls to really try and rush him, other than Philadelphia and Baltimore, maybe Indy.

Well you can blame the NFL alignment and scheduling rules for that schedule then. What about the Giants and Cowboys? I pointed them out for a reason. Yeah the other AFC East teams were kinda weak, but it's not like they had a choice in those teams. Also if I remember correctly, a few months ago you were saying that Colt Brennan was the greatest NCAA QB ever and shouldn't be punished for playing a schedule that he has no control over. Now Tom Brady does essentially the equivalent in the NFL and you reverse course? What's up with that?

You're gonna just use numbers to tell me all that? Numbers dont mean a thing, buddy. It's what you actually do during that game.

And numbers are what help us compare and analyze what happened during said game.

Was Shawne Merriman in Brady's afce in that one game? Heck no. I did'nt see Dallas make much pressure. either. they thought tight secondary coverage would do the trick, but not even close. The G-Men were the only team i've seen this whole season that actually knew what to do and rush the pretty boy. They rushed him the whole game and sacked him hard. If he didnt get sacked, he got hit pretty hard, and if it was neither of the two occuring, he got his hand hit and he fumbled the ball. See what I mean, the giants actually RUSHED him in the game, unlike the Bolts, the Boys, and some other teams.

Those same G-Men were beaten by that same Tom Brady in Week 17.

I can't stand teams like the Patriots who get all the headlines and all the spot light. We must have forgotten this season that there were 31 other teams in this league. Now, I can't be happier. It's the NFL again, not the PFL (Patriots Football League) and now ESPN can take that freaking ridiculous "PATRIOTS" ticker off thier bottom line and focus on the other teams in football. I'm sorry, I really am. But I just can't be happier.

Yeah, I hate it when potentially historic teams dominate the headlines at the expense of mediocre teams, too.

[rams80]

I have seen the Patriots offense described this year as a knock off on the GSOT offense. (I don't think its a complete clone-you need two reliable deep threats for starters, but I agree it shares aspects with it.) Points #1 and #2 are the best ways historically to stop the GSOT offense. Maybe Coughlin and his DC busted out some old game tapes from the Martz-era Rams to go with his game tapes from Week 17.

The one flaw with the GSOT was that its complexity means "Plan B" may not exist-not enough time to throw one together. Just a thought.

I'm pretty much a Philistine when it comes to dissecting play calling, but the Patriots offence looked to me this season more like a generic college spread offence with a single deep threat and a not-quite-existential running game. By comparison Martz's offence was much more vertically oriented and was much more willing to hand the ball off than the Patriots seemed to be.

I didn't say it was a complete clone...

I think the Patriots wanted to go deep more-but the problem was Brady didn't have the time to do that.

The point about #1 and #2 being the best way to stop a GSOT offense is true, though.

[rams80]

You're gonna just use numbers to tell me all that? Numbers dont mean a thing, buddy. It's what you actually do during that game.

Wait, wait, wait....wasn't your argument about Colt Brennan's eternal greatness predicated entirely upon numbers?

Oh...and I'd take Brady over Eli as well, but my MVP vote this season would have gone to Randy Moss.

[Grish]

Finally maybe those in Boston can go back to being miserable. Not that I like NY but I am tired of hearing how great the Pats are, how Sox suffered etc. Boston and NY has won more then their fair share of Championships, but maybe this will bring back some of the old MISERABLE BOSTONIAN FLAVOR to the sports world again.

God, this is the kind of crap I hate. Hating a team, their fans, and the city just because their teams are successful. Why not hate on your own team for once for not being able to take the steps to win their own championships? Spygate aside, the Pats and Red Sox have done great because the people in the organizations know what it takes to win, and go out there and get the players and coaches that it takes to win a championship.

Interesting that is not what Boston fans said prior to 2001. It was always envy of New York, I don't hate the team because of their sucess, I dislike whinning Boston fans who act like it is only them who has to suffer. I will not get in the reality of sport... that is a sperate issue.

[mantleisthebest7]

You're gonna just use numbers to tell me all that? Numbers dont mean a thing, buddy. It's what you actually do during that game.

Wait, wait, wait....wasn't your argument about Colt Brennan's eternal greatness predicated entirely upon numbers?

Oh...and I'd take Brady over Eli as well, but my MVP vote this season would have gone to Randy Moss.

Yes and no. You forgot to mention the 22 career NCAA records and unbelievable heart (3 rushing TDs on a sprained ankle in one game? Wha?) I happened to talk about. Infact, alot more of that than just numbers. Before you tar and feather me, make sure you go back and read the thread and EVERYTHING that I said.

And IDK where youre getting the idea that i'd take Eli over Brady......I'd still take 5 or 6 QB's over Eli.

[mantleisthebest7]

Oooooooookay. First off, to answer your MVP question, they'res a certain guy named, oh what was it, I think his name is Brad Favre,

Actually, I think his name is Brett.

no sorry BRETT Favre.

Oh you made a joke. I get jokes.

He plays for this team called the Green Bay Packers and had what we football fans like to call a "stellar" season.

Are you suggesting that I'm not a football fan because I don't think that Mr. Favre should have the MVP? Maybe you're suggesting that if I was a football fan I'd understand what a "stellar" season is. Clearly I should yield to your "stellar" football fan opinion. (Did I use the adjective right?)

And also, he is in his late thirties, nearing forty,

I, not being a football fan, didn't know that being old was a prerequisite for being MVP.

and played some incredible football, even better than my fav player, Peyton Manning, in my opinion. My MVP vote would glady go to him.

So play better than Peyton Manning, get your MVP vote. Got it.

Here's a few QB stats from this past season

Peyton Manning's QB Rating = 98.0 (rank: 4)

Brett Favre's QB Rating = 95.7 (rank: 6)

Tom Brady's QB Rating = 117.2 (rank: 1)

Manning's TD/INT = 31/14

Favre's TD/INT = 28/15

Tom Brady's TD/INT = 50/8

Manning's Yd Avg = 7.8 (rank: T-3)

Favre's Yd Avg = 7.8 (rank: T-3)

Tom Brady's Yd Avg = 8.3 (rank: 1)

Looking at various QB stats I say the pecking order is this: Brady > Manning > Favre. Favre didn't play better than Manning (it was close) but still wins the MVP over a guy that played better than both of them?

Ok, so Brady got the TD record,

Throwing more TD passes in a single season than any QB in history sounds pretty "stellar" to me.

but be honest. This is the best season Farve has just about ever had.

So Brett has his best year ever so he deserves it even if other players have a better year? I'm learning more about the MVP with each line!

And MVP stands for Most Valuable Player. The Pats have like 300 weapons on that team, all equal in value. No player on that Packer squad was more valuable than Favre. That's my stand.

That's your opinion. I'm sure I could find many other football fans that think Brady is the most valuable player on the Patriot team.

And I'm not on any high horse. Nor was I ever. I was just pointing out that the Patriots "humble pie" was really bull crap, especially how Brady was laughing at Buress's prediction. YOU TELL ME WHAT KIND OF CLASS THAT IS? And now Brady deservingly looks like the cocky jock who finally got it handed to him because they didnt even score 17, like what Brady laughed at. So if you're gonna tell anyone to get off thier high horse, tell New England to. I don't see how calling the cocky out makes me cocky at all.

Tell me, what kind of class did Plaxico exhibit by calling out the league's most potent offense? Just sayin'.

His three rings came in games where he didnt really have extreme defensive pressure. And I think the real person who stood up to pressure was a little future hall of famer named Adam Vinateri. You're gonna give Brady the credit for those rings? Please. Brady didnt kick two straight Super Bowl winning field goals. Vinateri did.

Yes. I am giving credit to Brady for those victories. He led the drive to get within range for Vinateri to make the winning FG. That's not to say that he's the only person that deserves credit, but he certainly deserves some of it.

As for that schedule, you play the Jets, Bills, and Dolphins twice in a year. Now tell me that's not a cupcake schedule.

None of those teams had the balls to really try and rush him, other than Philadelphia and Baltimore, maybe Indy.

Well you can blame the NFL alignment and scheduling rules for that schedule then. What about the Giants and Cowboys? I pointed them out for a reason. Yeah the other AFC East teams were kinda weak, but it's not like they had a choice in those teams. Also if I remember correctly, a few months ago you were saying that Colt Brennan was the greatest NCAA QB ever and shouldn't be punished for playing a schedule that he has no control over. Now Tom Brady does essentially the equivalent in the NFL and you reverse course? What's up with that?

You're gonna just use numbers to tell me all that? Numbers dont mean a thing, buddy. It's what you actually do during that game.

And numbers are what help us compare and analyze what happened during said game.

Was Shawne Merriman in Brady's afce in that one game? Heck no. I did'nt see Dallas make much pressure. either. they thought tight secondary coverage would do the trick, but not even close. The G-Men were the only team i've seen this whole season that actually knew what to do and rush the pretty boy. They rushed him the whole game and sacked him hard. If he didnt get sacked, he got hit pretty hard, and if it was neither of the two occuring, he got his hand hit and he fumbled the ball. See what I mean, the giants actually RUSHED him in the game, unlike the Bolts, the Boys, and some other teams.

Those same G-Men were beaten by that same Tom Brady in Week 17.

I can't stand teams like the Patriots who get all the headlines and all the spot light. We must have forgotten this season that there were 31 other teams in this league. Now, I can't be happier. It's the NFL again, not the PFL (Patriots Football League) and now ESPN can take that freaking ridiculous "PATRIOTS" ticker off thier bottom line and focus on the other teams in football. I'm sorry, I really am. But I just can't be happier.

Yeah, I hate it when potentially historic teams dominate the headlines at the expense of mediocre teams, too.

I respect your opinions. I really do. and I'm not out there just to prove them wrong.

My problem is all this "we're not worthy" - like praise to the Patriots when there were three or four other teams that played stellar football as well. And I wasnt questioning your status as a fan at all. I agree, I shoudlnt have used that choice of words, I'll admit that. I was just trying to prove a point that some of us in football world appreciated Favre's season alot more than Brady's.

I never said "if you have a better season than Peyton, you get the MVP. I'm not really sure where you got that. What I meant was that I thought FAvre had a better season than Manning, and that is all I meant. I thought that, even though Manning is and will forever be my favorite player, Favre deserved an MVP vote more than Peyton.

I agree Brady had a great season. I'm just questioning his value. You forget 23 of his 50 TDs went to Randy Moss, and If I had to choose a Patriot in a pickup game, Id personally choose Wes Welker, because I believe far and beyond he was not neccessarily the best reciever, but the most valuable and dynamic on the Patriots team and perhaps in the whole league. You also have to equally credit guys like Lawrence Maroney and the whole Pats front line. Without them, we wouldnt even be talking about Brady. So all I was doing was questioning his value because I personally think, and this is only my opinion, even Wes Welker was more valuable this season than Brady.

About the Brady-Brennan schedeule question, Brady is far and beyond better than Brennan,. you guys make it sound like I think Brady should be a backup or something - and that is entirely different. I have commented numerous times that Brady is a great player. I learned during the Sugar Bowl that Brennan isnt a system quarterback, just an unfortunately underopposed one, meaning the lack of great teams in his conference and schedule eventuall did no good for him - I am humble enough to admit I was wrong on that part. I think I may have posted that in the thread, but if I hadnt, I want you to know that that was my honest opinion watching the sugar bowl. On this part, you are entirely correct. Please accept that I accept that.

You say the same Giants team lost to them in week 17. As I recall, that Giants team was a team just barely warming up a hot streak and at the time were nothing more than an eventual wild card team. Now, as I also recall, the Giants are a team that just finished the season on one of the most dominant hot streaks in along while and are everything more than a wild card team. Infact they happen to be world champions. I personally see a huge difference in those two teams. Accept the fact that this time around, the Giants played alot better football than the Pats.

I hate all the spotlight because fans of 31 other teams have to hear Patriots this and Patriots that. And if it were 1972, I can honestly say I'd say the same thing about the Dolphins. Heck, I say it all the time about teams like the Lakers, Red Wings, USC football and UNC basketball. What i'm saying is that Every time I pick up my Salt Lake Tribune, I dont want to see Tom Brady on the front page. I could care less for a Bill Belichick story on the right column. I want to see how my Ciolts did, I want to see hom my dad's Rams did, I want to see how my mom's Titans did. I want to see how my grandpa's Texans did. See what I mean? Alot of us are tired of all the talk. We want to hear about OUR teams. Patriot Nation isnt the whole nation. There are 31 OTHER TEAMS OUT THERE. Now that the Patriots finally lost, I can rest easy knowing the Colts will actually be a featured on a newspaper now, as with millions of other people and thier teams.

Again, I entirely respect your opinions and I am in no way intending to personally attack you. I just want to share my opinions as well, and that is all I am setting out to do. Say what you want about my age as well, that im 15 and to some people (not in particular you - i'm just saying some out there my think this and they have every right to) immature and under-educated, but all I'm gonna say is that though many of you disagree with my opinions, they are still MY opinions and unless I am proven wrong, I don't back down easy.

[ShinyHubCaps]

The point in his MVP argument was that MVP is not clearly defined, and a number of intangibles can make up how people vote. It's not that being old or having his best season ever is a requirement, but the loose definition of MVP makes everyone a candidate, and the ballot presence for Brady was ridiculous considering that his team was relatively stacked.

[Epiphanic]

I understand the MVP debate. I don't think it should necessarily go to the player with the best season (such as A-Rod's MVP when he was with the Rangers) but to the player that impacted his team the most. While you can certainly make an argument for Favre, Brady, many other players, what got me was the apparent (intended or not) attitude that selecting Brady as this year's MVP was some sort of travesty. When you deal with such intangibles all you have are subjective opinions that are half-validated by facts and half-validated by image. Favre had a great year. I'm not taking that away. I just think you can't unequivocally say that he was better (which he wasn't) or more valuable (which is debatable) than Tom Brady to their respective teams.

I had fun composing my previous two posts in this thread. I'm not out to convince you that Brady was a better choice than Favre for MVP because I know I won't no matter how much evidence can find and throw at you. Frankly, I don't really care one way or another. Brady was a fine choice for MVP and I'm not going to be one to say he shouldn't have got it. He was clearly the best statistically and if you go with the intangible stuff, I would venture to guess that New England wouldn't have gotten near 16-0 and we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Take that for what it's worth.

As for me, I'm gonna look forward to what's more important than football: Opening Day. Go Nats!

[Jigga]

I understand the MVP debate. I don't think it should necessarily go to the player with the best season (such as A-Rod's MVP when he was with the Rangers) but to the player that impacted his team the most. While you can certainly make an argument for Favre, Brady, many other players, what got me was the apparent (intended or not) attitude that selecting Brady as this year's MVP was some sort of travesty. When you deal with such intangibles all you have are subjective opinions that are half-validated by facts and half-validated by image. Favre had a great year. I'm not taking that away. I just think you can't unequivocally say that he was better (which he wasn't) or more valuable (which is debatable) than Tom Brady to their respective teams.

I had fun composing my previous two posts in this thread. I'm not out to convince you that Brady was a better choice than Favre for MVP because I know I won't no matter how much evidence can find and throw at you. Frankly, I don't really care one way or another. Brady was a fine choice for MVP and I'm not going to be one to say he shouldn't have got it. He was clearly the best statistically and if you go with the intangible stuff, I would venture to guess that New England wouldn't have gotten near 16-0 and we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Take that for what it's worth.

As for me, I'm gonna look forward to what's more important than football: Opening Day. Go Nats!

There is nothing more important than football!

Can't wait until mid-June...when the team sucks and I'll finally be able to afford a ticket to the new stadium.

[rams80]

You're gonna just use numbers to tell me all that? Numbers dont mean a thing, buddy. It's what you actually do during that game.

Wait, wait, wait....wasn't your argument about Colt Brennan's eternal greatness predicated entirely upon numbers?

Oh...and I'd take Brady over Eli as well, but my MVP vote this season would have gone to Randy Moss.

Yes and no. You forgot to mention the 22 career NCAA records and unbelievable heart (3 rushing TDs on a sprained ankle in one game? Wha?) I happened to talk about. Infact, alot more of that than just numbers. Before you tar and feather me, make sure you go back and read the thread and EVERYTHING that I said.

And IDK where youre getting the idea that i'd take Eli over Brady......I'd still take 5 or 6 QB's over Eli.

The records are based on "numbers" and on the sprained ankle, I see you and raise one Byron Leftwich.

[JQK]

2007 NFL Season Stats

Vince Lombardi Trophy

Eli Manning - 1

Super Bowl MVP

Eli Manning - 1

Brady can have all the records. I'll be happy that my "mediocre, slack-jawed, slouching" quarterback having the only stats that count..

[NJTank]

You're gonna just use numbers to tell me all that? Numbers dont mean a thing, buddy. It's what you actually do during that game.

Wait, wait, wait....wasn't your argument about Colt Brennan's eternal greatness predicated entirely upon numbers?

Oh...and I'd take Brady over Eli as well, but my MVP vote this season would have gone to Randy Moss.

Yes and no. You forgot to mention the 22 career NCAA records and unbelievable heart (3 rushing TDs on a sprained ankle in one game? Wha?) I happened to talk about. Infact, alot more of that than just numbers. Before you tar and feather me, make sure you go back and read the thread and EVERYTHING that I said.

And IDK where youre getting the idea that i'd take Eli over Brady......I'd still take 5 or 6 QB's over Eli.

The records are based on "numbers" and on the sprained ankle, I see you and raise one Byron Leftwich.

I remember watching that game that took guts from Leftwhich, I'm shocked he has been such a bust in the NFL after that.

[Alphabet Man]

2007 NFL Season Stats

Vince Lombardi Trophy

Eli Manning - 1

Super Bowl MVP

Eli Manning - 1

Brady can have all the records. I'll be happy that my "mediocre, slack-jawed, slouching" quarterback having the only stats that count..

Exactly, its a team game. Stats mean nothing if you can't win it when it counts. And not sure who said it, but, its true that a champion team will beat a team of champions.

Anyway, I'm over the superbowl, back to the cricket.

[Swiss]

I decided to send Bill Simmons an e-mail. I felt I might as well post it here.

<begin>

In 2004, Boston stomped back unexpectedly from overwhelming odds and history breathing down their neck and crushed New York's ability to ever chant the number 18 again as a sign of epic failure.

So funny how exactly 1200 days later, New York just did the same thing to Boston and put the number 18 right back again on top of that pedestal of epic failure. Only this time, the 19 that used to accompany is not going to see the light of day.

Humbling isn't it?

<end>

At least you never will hear again the 18 sing at Yankee Stadium.

Time for an ad!!!

Did you see this Reebok ad about Perfectville? It really is funny.

[BlueSky]

Anybody seen a Super Bowl thread? It's around here somewhere...

[Drew22]

You're gonna just use numbers to tell me all that? Numbers dont mean a thing, buddy. It's what you actually do during that game.

Wait, wait, wait....wasn't your argument about Colt Brennan's eternal greatness predicated entirely upon numbers?

Oh...and I'd take Brady over Eli as well, but my MVP vote this season would have gone to Randy Moss.

Yes and no. You forgot to mention the 22 career NCAA records and unbelievable heart (3 rushing TDs on a sprained ankle in one game? Wha?) I happened to talk about. Infact, alot more of that than just numbers. Before you tar and feather me, make sure you go back and read the thread and EVERYTHING that I said.

Lets review, shall we.

Ouch.

Again.

Wow.

Greatest ever? No, Marcus Howard give your buddy Colt nightmares.