World Baseball Classic 2009

[See Red]

Do I want Grady Sizemore to get hurt in this thing? No, but he'd still be going down playing for the Red, White, and Blue.

This doesn't terribly matter to me, and I guess that's why this argument keeps going in circles.

Nor does it matter too terribly much to the Cleveland Indians. They're paying him to do a job, and if he can't do it as a result of an injury he gets during the WBC... that's a problem.

Back to the Jeter point... if Derek Jeter gets hurt during the World Baseball Classic, Team USA's chances of winning a meaningless tournament are slightly hindered (that's debatable, actually, but I won't get into it here) -- the Yankees, however, lose a $21 million player for X amount of time in games that actually matter.

[The_Admiral]

Albert Pujols dropped out today.

[rams80]

So admiral,

So Y-O-U-'-R-E saying that if a guy makes 20million dollars then he should not be able to represent his country in international contract? And the World Series is not an international event. It is a club competition. If it truly was a world series then it would pit the MLB champ against the Japanese League champ. Until that happens, the World Series is nothing more than the United States Baseball club champion. Just like the Boston Celtics are not the World Champions unless they take on the Euroleague champs. Until that happens, they are NBA Champions, nothing more, nothing less. END OF STORY!

You need to watch soccer to fully appreciate the difference between club and international competitions, and what it means for players represent their nations.

Now on to the competition itself. I absolutely love the idea. I'd be a fan of having (1) host nation, hosting this every 4 years. I have no doubt that if organizers keep up their efforts, that the WBC will be up there in stature and magnitude with the World Series.

I think the point he was trying to make was that professional ball clubs pay way too much money to their star athletes to have them go down before the season even starts because of an exhibition tournament. Patriotism is one thing, but money is definitely another. And it's not even that someone is a fan of "money and contracts" more than they are baseball, but it's just common sense. Hell, the Angels just pulled Lackey from the WBC for that exact reason. They're paying their athletes too much to have them get hurt in a volunteer tournament (and if it's not, it's pretty damn close) that most people will forget about by May.

Fair enough point, no ball club would want to see their star player go down in an "exhibition game." But one day the WBC will be just as important to athletes as the World Series is....you have to start somewhere. But from what I gathered from Admiral's point, he was saying that the WBC isn't an elite competition, and that the World Series is a the only competition that should matter. I could be wrong in my interpretation of his comments. But we'll see.

Baseball and soccer are apples and oranges. Yes, the World Cup trumps club play in soccer. (For now...IIRC at least some club teams are starting to rethink releasing their stars for international national teams.) The World Baseball Classic, however, lacks the history to trump club play. And I doubt it ever will. Baseball lacks the international presence in order for a WBC to gain traction on the international sporting level like the World Cup, and therefore the importance to everyone involved.

Also, in baseball (and basketball and hockey, as I seem to recall you arguing), there is not a club team outside of the North American leagues that could win a 7 game series against those league champions. That's why the world champions moniker is rightly trotted out for those leagues.

[The_Admiral]

Joel Piniero, Jair Jurrjens, and Scott Kazmir opted out of representing Puerto Rico, the Netherlands, and the United States, respectively. In Piniero's case, it was because Jose Oquendo told him "don't bother, you're bad." For Kazmir, as with teammate Grant Balfour, he opted out at the request of his club. We learned all season long that the minds at the Tampa Bay Rays kinda "get" this whole baseball thing.

[Breakwood]

Japan's Final Roster has been set:

Pitchers: Daisuke Matsuzaka (Boston Red Sox); Hideaki Wakui (Seibu Lions); Satoshi Komatsu (Orix Buffaloes); Yu Darvish (Nippon Ham Fighters); Shunsuke Watanabe (Lotte Marines); Masahiro Tanaka (Rakuten Eagles); Hisashi Iwakuma (Rakuten Eagles); Takahiro Mahara (Softbank Hawks); Toshiya Sugiuchi (Softbank Hawks); Tetsuya Utsumi (Yomiuri Giants); Tetsuya Yamaguchi (Yomiuri Giants); Minoru Iwata (Hanshin Tigers); Kyuji Fujikawa (Hanshin Tigers).

Catchers: Kenji Johjima (Seattle Mariners); Shinnosuke Abe (Yomiuri Giants); Yoshiyuki Ishihara (Hiroshima Carp).

Infielders: Akinori Iwamura (Tampa Bay Rays); Hiroyuki Nakajima (Seibu Lions); Yasuyuki Kataoka (Seibu Lions); Munenori Kawasaki (Softbank Hawks); Michihiro Ogasawara (Yomiuri Giants); Shuichi Murata (Yokohama BayStars).

Outfielders: Ichiro Suzuki (Seattle Mariners); Kosuke Fukudome (Chicago Cubs); Atsunori Inaba (Nippon Ham Fighters); Yoshiyuki Kamei (Yomiuri Giants); Norichika Aoki (Yakult Swallows); Seiichi Uchikawa (Yokohama BayStars).

I wonder if Yu Darvish will live up to the hype.

[crashcarson15]

So what some of you are saying, LeBron, Kobe, Melo, and the rest of those guys shouldn't have played in the Olympics?

[rams80]

So what some of you are saying, LeBron, Kobe, Melo, and the rest of those guys shouldn't have played in the Olympics?

Probably. That much basketball can end up tiring a player out when the playoffs roll around.

[The_Admiral]

Neither Kobe Bryant nor the Olympics are particularly important to me, and as I noted earlier, the novelty of the NBA's best taking on the world is gone because the NBA has become so international (though possibly to its detriment) and because no Team USA roster can capture people's hearts like the 1992 iteration. It's the same as the All-Star Game not meaning much anymore. Yeah, we see all these guys together, we see them play each other every week on ESPN and TNT, they're all marketed so well, on and on. The Dream Team, though, that was a thing.

[The_Admiral]

Oh, and this just in, Carlos Marmol is likely opting out of representing the Dominican Republic so that he can better compete for the closer's job.

[JayJaxon]

That Japan National team is looking pretty good.

[scottysprings]

That Japan National team is looking pretty good.

Seriously, I wouldn't at all be surprised with a repeat of '06.

[BJ Sands]

The timing of the event is completely ridiculous. How can we use this tournament to determine a world champion if the players aren't really in game shape? (Don't tell me that training extra hard in the offseason makes up for that. It doesn't.)

This is another reason why the soccer comparison is bogus. Many WC qualifiers are during the European season, and the WC itself comes pretty soon after the season. And saying that this could become as big for baseball as the WC is for soccer is way off. Not only is baseball not nearly as international as soccer, I think we're way too far along in the evolution of sports to be creating new traditions not built on the framework of old ones. Anything that comes about now will simply come off as contrived and derivative and a money grab.

The only way for this thing to have any legitimacy is for it to be played either during the season (no way that ever happens) or after the season. Until then, I'll be watching only to see which players stay healthy.

(Oh, and I know that the "you're not a baseball fan if you don't like this" argument was made a while ago, but that's plain foolishness.)

[Shumway]

I was looking through the caps for the WBC, and why, exactly, does the US need 3 caps for the tournament? They only had the solid navy for the first one, correct?

[patsox]

I was looking through the caps for the WBC, and why, exactly, does the US need 3 caps for the tournament? They only had the solid navy for the first one, correct?

They don't need three, but they can sell three.

[The_Admiral]

The only way for this thing to have any legitimacy is for it to be played either during the season (no way that ever happens) or after the season.

No way that happens either. It's silly. I'm starting to believe that the only reason some of the people here are so head-over-heels in love with the World Baseball Classic is that it gives them a reason to make concepts for The Netherlands and Italy.

[Shumway]

The only way for this thing to have any legitimacy is for it to be played either during the season (no way that ever happens) or after the season.

No way that happens either. It's silly. I'm starting to believe that the only reason some of the people here are so head-over-heels in love with the World Baseball Classic is that it gives them a reason to make concepts for The Netherlands and Italy.

I'm head-over-heels in love with the World Baseball Classic because it means more baseball. Period.

[patsox]

The only way for this thing to have any legitimacy is for it to be played either during the season (no way that ever happens) or after the season.

No way that happens either. It's silly. I'm starting to believe that the only reason some of the people here are so head-over-heels in love with the World Baseball Classic is that it gives them a reason to make concepts for The Netherlands and Italy.

I'm head-over-heels in love with the World Baseball Classic because it means more baseball. Period.

Me too. Any way I can watch Major Leaguers and other talented players play before the season starts that isn't Grapefruit/Cactus League action is good with me.

[FiddySicks]

The only way for this thing to have any legitimacy is for it to be played either during the season (no way that ever happens) or after the season.

No way that happens either. It's silly. I'm starting to believe that the only reason some of the people here are so head-over-heels in love with the World Baseball Classic is that it gives them a reason to make concepts for The Netherlands and Italy.

I'm head-over-heels in love with the World Baseball Classic because it means more baseball. Period.

Bingo. It makes that terrible stretch between the Super Bowl (or Pro Bowl ) and opening day just that much easier.

That and it makes March madness that much easier to ignore.

[Drew22]

Bingo. It makes that terrible stretch between the Super Bowl (or Pro Bowl ) and opening day just that much easier.

That and it makes March madness that much easier to ignore.

You take that back. Take it back.

[The_Admiral]

It's baseball, but it wasn't particularly good baseball, at least not as far as I can recall. Six months of the rollercoaster is fine by me. I don't need a month of a rusted-out tilt-a-whirl to get ready. I mean, I'll watch a spring training game here and there to whet my appetite, and I've enjoyed bits and pieces of the classic games on the MLB Network, but I don't need nor want a lot of March baseball. There's still hockey.

Anyway, Phil Rogers in the Tribune:

[Theodore Roosevelt] Lilly was given his presidential name because one of his great-grandfathers served alongside Teddy Roosevelt as a Rough Rider in the Spanish-American War. The Navy figures prominently in his family history, and this might be as close as he gets to submarine school or a covert mission with the Seals.

Why not do a tour in the WBC?

The hell?!?