Division 1 College Conference Realignment

[rams80]

This would be a disaster I think, and could create complete havoc in the NCAA, some one needs to bring the Stop Reel Line Mint signs and stand outside the NCAA offices. Not that the current system is perfect but this could create a giant mess that will get bloated and eventually implode.

You know what the NCAA can currently do about conference expansion?

*crickets*

Some regulatory body, huh?

[Dilbert]

If this absolutly has to happen then it should be this:

Let the Big Ten have Missouri and Nebraska. It will leave the Big XII to a respectable ten schools.

The Big Ten can also take Rutgers but the Big East will take Navy or Army.

[rams80]

If this absolutly has to happen then it should be this:

Let the Big Ten have Missouri and Nebraska. It will leave the Big XII to a respectable ten schools.

The Big Ten can also take Rutgers but the Big East will take Navy or Army.

They just kicked Temple out a decade ago. There's no way they will introduce another Temple-caliber program into the Conference.

[mania]

Let the Big Ten have Missouri and Nebraska. It will leave the Big XII to a respectable ten schools.

That would make a ton of sense for the Big XII. Fits the name perfectly. And I'm sure every conference member would just be over the moon about losing the championship game that brings in a LOT of money every year. Perfect!

[LightningRide75]

I think the Big Ten will go to 14 teams for now and then to 16 later on down the road.

[CubsFanBudMan]

None of this has happened, and I don't think it is likely to (in this manner).

The Big Ten will be operating on some fairly simple formulas (although geography and especially academics will continue to play key roles).

Total Conference Revenue / 11 Schools = X

Revenue of Potential New Member School + Revenue Generated from New Market Exposure = Y

Y must be ≥ X

Of course a 12th team allows for a conference football championship game, but that revenue is peanuts compared to what we're talking about here.

If that condition isn't satisfied, don't expect a school to get invited. This is the case for schools like Mizzou, Nebraska, Rutgers, and even Pitt.

Now, there are some big fish out there that definitely meet this criteria. They are Texas and Notre Dame. They bring in enough revenue to make that formula work a couple of times over, and that being the case, you might see the Big Ten willing to bring in a couple of the afforementioned schools to create a "Super Conference". For one thing, I can see where building such a conference would project to bring in many extra dollars down the line even if the return isn't immediate. But the bigger reasons are about Texas and Notre Dame themselves. In the case of Texas, it's long been rumored that they and TAMU might be a packaged deal (and Tech might be part of that, too.) In the case of Notre Dame, they may only be willing to relinquish their status as an independent if their hand is forced by the creation of a few really large conferences--their AD has even said as much.

Another point to be made about Notre Dame is that they would actually make more money in the Big Ten and have fairly similar exposure compared to where they are now. What they would lose is their status as a prestigious independent (instead becoming a member of a prestigious conference). To this point, they've valued that prestige over a few extra millions, and that's totally fine. Some people however seem to have the impression that they're actually making more money as an independent than they would in the Big Ten, and that's not the case.

I may be reading your post wrong, but it suggests to me that you don't think a three-school expansion of Missouri, Nebraska, Rutgers would be worth it. Or that the Big Ten might find that to be the case. Rest assured the Big Ten will expand, even without a slam dunk like Notre Dame and/or Texas.

Using your formula, I believe "Y will be ≥ X" in almost every scenario, including "just" adding Missouri, Nebraska, Rutgers. It's just a matter of how much greater "Y" can go. No doubt the Notre Dame and Texas talk is an effort to maximize it. But I never believed that the Big Ten was adding only one school.

The three most important words are "Big Ten Network." Even adding Missouri, Nebraska, Rutgers has its benefits. Namely, adding live sports programming to the network and adding subscribers. A lot of talk revolves around getting into New York, but locking up the states of Missouri and Nebraska is nothing to sniff at. And Rutgers gives the network a shot at getting at least some of the New York market. I also like the Missouri-Nebraska-Rutgers rumor because it sets up conference divisions nicely, preserving traditional rivalries and giving Penn State the eastern one its wanted.

Everything I've read suggests that the Big Ten holds landing Nebraska in the same regard as Notre Dame and Texas. Should that be the case? Probably not anymore. But Notre Dame isn't really Notre Dame anymore, either.

As a Big Ten fan, I'd welcome the opportunity to see the Irish beaten regularly in conference play, but I think the Big East would be a nice fit for Notre Dame. Join up in football in what post-expansion would be considered by the mainstream media to be a weakened conference that the Irish would be projected to win every year. (And then fail to do so.) The problem is Notre Dame doesn't want to share that BCS money they only have to win 9 games to get.

I think the Big Ten will go to 14 teams for now and then to 16 later on down the road.

The Big Ten has stated a 12-18 month timeframe, but it sounds like the first three could be locked up sooner, with the possibility of adding two more at the back end of that timeframe. So you could be right.

Despite the unusual outreach, adding Rutgers does make sense and here's why: its close proximity to New York City (#1 Ratings Market!) and further encroaching on and possible puncturing of the Big East Conference.

The invitation to Notre Dame does not make any sense, at least from an academic standpoint, since they are not a part of the Association of American Universities.

And membership in said association is invitation-based. I'm pretty sure such an invitation would be forthcoming were Notre Dame to join the Big Ten.

I could be wrong, but I believe joining the AAU was a previous Big Ten expansion hangup -- for Notre Dame. Something about the values not matching up with a Catholic university.

[ESTONES6]

Well. Nebraska and Mizzou are shoe-ins. That will take the total to 13. I think where the Big Ten screws up is taking Rutgers over Syracuse. I think the Orange fan base is bigger than Rutgers and is closer to "Big Ten Country." ESPN reports that someone familiar with the situation is saying to think outside of the box, like Georgia Tech or Maryland - neither of which I agree with.

As for the Notre Dame idea. I understand ND has the great TV contract, but with the ESPN and Big Ten Network contracts, it will be a lateral move. I think where ND has to think about is the National Title hopes. ND is not going to get into a BCS title game being independent. But if they join the Big Ten, they have a shot at beating a good OSU, Michigan, Nebraska, Penn State teams, and getting that 1 or 2 rank at the end of the season.

Now the reports I am reading and hearing about is that the Big Ten wants to expand to 16 teams... but get this: With 4, 4 team divisions in 2 leagues. I am guessing it is a way to increase the Big Ten season 2 games in order to avoid that super long lay off between their end of season and BCS bowl games.

I think if the Big Ten were smart, they would invite Nebraska, Mizzou, Syracuse, West Virginia and Notre Dame. However, I do NOT think they want to double up with schools in the same state, which is why I think if Notre Dame denies the invite, they should go after a team like Virginia Tech or Louisville. Looking at the map, those 2 schools fall right into Big Ten country, and it would set up an easy break down of rivalries and divisions.

Teams I have heard are on short list: Nebraska, Mizzou, Notre Dame, Rutgers

Teams that are also in consideration: Pitt, Maryland, Georgia Tech, Syracuse, Vanderbilt

The 5 Teams that I would make the most sense: Nebraska, Mizzou, West Virginia, Syracuse, and Notre Dame. WV brings in Pitt for the Backyard Rivalry, Pitt also plays Penn State. ND already has established rivalries with teams in the Big 10. Nebraska has a national fan base. Syracuse brings in the NY audience.

It is going to be interesting wither way... a 4 team, 4 division, 2 conference Mega Conference. The only way I think that works is a 3 year rotation. School 1 plays the other 3 teams in it's A division, plus division B... that's 7 games. Then leave it to the schools to schedule 5 at large games. This would allow 3 tune-up games to start the year, and 2 games for out of conference schedule. Then school 1 from A plays all its teams plus division B... and so on and so fourth.

Obviously, they are going to have to align the divisions so OSU and Michigan can play in the Big Ten championship, as well as play every single year - making the Michigan vs OSU game an at-large game.

[pcgd]

Source:

http://www.810whb.com/article/3527

Denial:

http://my.journalstar.com/post/Husker_Extra_Group/Husker_Extra/blog/perlman_report_untrue.html

15 months ago, that "source" issued a similar "news" report, confirming Mike Shanahan as the new Chiefs head coach. Todd Haley was actually hired.

I should have used quotes as well...I meant to imply that I didn't believe it as a legit source...

[Ben5]

Well. Nebraska and Mizzou are shoe-ins. That will take the total to 13. I think where the Big Ten screws up is taking Rutgers over Syracuse. I think the Orange fan base is bigger than Rutgers and is closer to "Big Ten Country." ESPN reports that someone familiar with the situation is saying to think outside of the box, like Georgia Tech or Maryland - neither of which I agree with.

As for the Notre Dame idea. I understand ND has the great TV contract, but with the ESPN and Big Ten Network contracts, it will be a lateral move. I think where ND has to think about is the National Title hopes. ND is not going to get into a BCS title game being independent. But if they join the Big Ten, they have a shot at beating a good OSU, Michigan, Nebraska, Penn State teams, and getting that 1 or 2 rank at the end of the season.

Now the reports I am reading and hearing about is that the Big Ten wants to expand to 16 teams... but get this: With 4, 4 team divisions in 2 leagues. I am guessing it is a way to increase the Big Ten season 2 games in order to avoid that super long lay off between their end of season and BCS bowl games.

I think if the Big Ten were smart, they would invite Nebraska, Mizzou, Syracuse, West Virginia and Notre Dame. However, I do NOT think they want to double up with schools in the same state, which is why I think if Notre Dame denies the invite, they should go after a team like Virginia Tech or Louisville. Looking at the map, those 2 schools fall right into Big Ten country, and it would set up an easy break down of rivalries and divisions.

Teams I have heard are on short list: Nebraska, Mizzou, Notre Dame, Rutgers

Teams that are also in consideration: Pitt, Maryland, Georgia Tech, Syracuse, Vanderbilt

The 5 Teams that I would make the most sense: Nebraska, Mizzou, West Virginia, Syracuse, and Notre Dame. WV brings in Pitt for the Backyard Rivalry, Pitt also plays Penn State. ND already has established rivalries with teams in the Big 10. Nebraska has a national fan base. Syracuse brings in the NY audience.

It is going to be interesting wither way... a 4 team, 4 division, 2 conference Mega Conference. The only way I think that works is a 3 year rotation. School 1 plays the other 3 teams in it's A division, plus division B... that's 7 games. Then leave it to the schools to schedule 5 at large games. This would allow 3 tune-up games to start the year, and 2 games for out of conference schedule. Then school 1 from A plays all its teams plus division B... and so on and so fourth.

Obviously, they are going to have to align the divisions so OSU and Michigan can play in the Big Ten championship, as well as play every single year - making the Michigan vs OSU game an at-large game.

I think you are off base on a couple points here. First off, I don't know how much ANY New York team has a foothold in the NYC market. From what I understand, Penn State is just as big in the city, if not bigger than Rutgers and Syracuse. It is my opinion that people from New Jersey think Rutgers is the New York team, but that is just wishful thinking.

West Virginia is not really an option. Geographically, academically, number of teeth, etc. I don't think they will look there. Louisville won't bring in a big enough market. Virginia Tech or Georgia Tech would be interesting, but neither in Big Ten country. Not even close. No way they bring in Vandy. They have almost no football presence.

Finally, Ohio State and Michigan will be in the same division. The idea is that hopefully at least one of them will be leading the division and the winner will either go to the conference championship game or spoil it for the other guy. Having them play twice a year would cheapen their regular season game. Having them not play at all in a season (if they both don't make the championship game) would be even worse.

[Gothamite]

I think you are off base on a couple points here. First off, I don't know how much ANY New York team has a foothold in the NYC market. From what I understand, Penn State is just as big in the city, if not bigger than Rutgers and Syracuse. It is my opinion that people from New Jersey think Rutgers is the New York team, but that is just wishful thinking.

I can confirm this - Rutgers has some footprint in the market, but that's very recent. Before 2006, I doubt any New Yorkers could have told you where Rutgers is (and to this day, I doubt that many could tell you it's a public school). Syracuse has been trying like heck to get in with ad campaign claiming they're NYC's local college. I don't think either claim is very strong at this moment. NYC is unusual, a large city without any real hometown college football program.

I think the only claim Penn State has on the city is their occasional appearances on YES (the Yankees' network), which extends into Pennsylvania. For what it's worth, Notre Dame has a presence on YES as well.

[rams80]

Despite the unusual outreach, adding Rutgers does make sense and here's why: its close proximity to New York City (#1 Ratings Market!) and further encroaching on and possible puncturing of the Big East Conference.

The invitation to Notre Dame does not make any sense, at least from an academic standpoint, since they are not a part of the Association of American Universities.

And membership in said association is invitation-based. I'm pretty sure such an invitation would be forthcoming were Notre Dame to join the Big Ten.

I could be wrong, but I believe joining the AAU was a previous Big Ten expansion hangup -- for Notre Dame. Something about the values not matching up with a Catholic university.

Seeing as Notre Dame would have been a Big Ten member as of the early 2000s before some very last minute cold feet on Notre Dame's part, any AAU issues are overblown. There's also the 1998 invitation to join the Big Ten that Notre Dame turned down.

---------------------------------

The Big Ten is looking at Rutgers and/or Syracuse not because they are New York's official college teams, but because they would be cause for the Big Ten Network to expand its basic cable base to New York, which among other things has a large current Big Ten alumni base living in the region.

[Gothamite]

Yeah, the Big Ten has wanted Notre Dame for a long time. I understand why - seems like a great fit.

[ESTONES6]

Well. Nebraska and Mizzou are shoe-ins. That will take the total to 13. I think where the Big Ten screws up is taking Rutgers over Syracuse. I think the Orange fan base is bigger than Rutgers and is closer to "Big Ten Country." ESPN reports that someone familiar with the situation is saying to think outside of the box, like Georgia Tech or Maryland - neither of which I agree with.

As for the Notre Dame idea. I understand ND has the great TV contract, but with the ESPN and Big Ten Network contracts, it will be a lateral move. I think where ND has to think about is the National Title hopes. ND is not going to get into a BCS title game being independent. But if they join the Big Ten, they have a shot at beating a good OSU, Michigan, Nebraska, Penn State teams, and getting that 1 or 2 rank at the end of the season.

Now the reports I am reading and hearing about is that the Big Ten wants to expand to 16 teams... but get this: With 4, 4 team divisions in 2 leagues. I am guessing it is a way to increase the Big Ten season 2 games in order to avoid that super long lay off between their end of season and BCS bowl games.

I think if the Big Ten were smart, they would invite Nebraska, Mizzou, Syracuse, West Virginia and Notre Dame. However, I do NOT think they want to double up with schools in the same state, which is why I think if Notre Dame denies the invite, they should go after a team like Virginia Tech or Louisville. Looking at the map, those 2 schools fall right into Big Ten country, and it would set up an easy break down of rivalries and divisions.

Teams I have heard are on short list: Nebraska, Mizzou, Notre Dame, Rutgers

Teams that are also in consideration: Pitt, Maryland, Georgia Tech, Syracuse, Vanderbilt

The 5 Teams that I would make the most sense: Nebraska, Mizzou, West Virginia, Syracuse, and Notre Dame. WV brings in Pitt for the Backyard Rivalry, Pitt also plays Penn State. ND already has established rivalries with teams in the Big 10. Nebraska has a national fan base. Syracuse brings in the NY audience.

It is going to be interesting wither way... a 4 team, 4 division, 2 conference Mega Conference. The only way I think that works is a 3 year rotation. School 1 plays the other 3 teams in it's A division, plus division B... that's 7 games. Then leave it to the schools to schedule 5 at large games. This would allow 3 tune-up games to start the year, and 2 games for out of conference schedule. Then school 1 from A plays all its teams plus division B... and so on and so fourth.

Obviously, they are going to have to align the divisions so OSU and Michigan can play in the Big Ten championship, as well as play every single year - making the Michigan vs OSU game an at-large game.

I think you are off base on a couple points here. First off, I don't know how much ANY New York team has a foothold in the NYC market. From what I understand, Penn State is just as big in the city, if not bigger than Rutgers and Syracuse. It is my opinion that people from New Jersey think Rutgers is the New York team, but that is just wishful thinking.

West Virginia is not really an option. Geographically, academically, number of teeth, etc. I don't think they will look there. Louisville won't bring in a big enough market. Virginia Tech or Georgia Tech would be interesting, but neither in Big Ten country. Not even close. No way they bring in Vandy. They have almost no football presence.

Finally, Ohio State and Michigan will be in the same division. The idea is that hopefully at least one of them will be leading the division and the winner will either go to the conference championship game or spoil it for the other guy. Having them play twice a year would cheapen their regular season game. Having them not play at all in a season (if they both don't make the championship game) would be even worse.

Well... Vandy, GT, and MD have all been mentioned by someone close to the situation, according to ESPN. They literally described it as "Think outside the box." Vandy could work. It's in Big Ten Country, and would be one of the lesser teams like NW and Illinois. It also brings them into the basketball discussion, which is why I think the Big Ten would rather have Syracuse before Rutgers.

West Virginia AND Virginia Tech both could work, and I think, would be ideal if they can't get Notre Dame. Geographically they work well, making a East and West conference, with a Division of Penn State, NY area team, VT, WV. East conference being the aforementioned teams + Ohio State, Michigan State, Indianan, and Illinois (Indy and Illi because it would break up Indy with Purdue and Illi from Northwestern).

As for OSU/Michigan. They will NOT be in the same division/conference. You would be crazy to think so. If they are smart, they will separate them so they have the possibility of OSU/Michigan for the Big Ten title and have National Title implications. It would NOT be smart to put them in the same division/conference. Since this is mainly a money-driven move, I don't think the Big Ten officials would be that naive to make that mistake.

There is no way the rivalry would be cheapened. Having a 2 game playoff, meeting in the regular season and then in the Big Ten Title game, extracting revenge or enforcing dominance. That is the Big Ten's dream.

[pianoknight]

As a NU fan, I hated the shotgun wedding between the old Big 8 and the SWC. When the Texas schools joined the league they were able to shoehorn in some deals that gave more favor to the South Division. The two division model also completed screwed the NU-OU rivalry, which has been seen as one of the more prominent rivalries in college football.

IF, and a big IF, the Big Ten takes NU and Mizzou, I'm on board. Here's why. Mizzou is technically Nebraska's oldest rival and that feud would stay intact. Honestly, I could careless about Kansas, KState or Iowa State and replacing them with teams like Indiana, Illinois or Minnesota would be a welcome change.

Next, the Colorado "rivalry." Let's be honest here, NU has never really considered it a rivalry and despite a few recent wins for the Buffs, NU still holds the series lead at 48-18-2. When you're ahead 30 games (years) it hardly seems like a rivalry. Dump CU, we don't need them.

Finally, assuming OU stays in the Big XII or moves to another conference, it frees up the universities to schedule the NU-OU game as a season opener every year. Consider that that series is 38-44-3 (Oklahoma ahead). Guess who Nebraska played against in their very first game in Memorial Stadium? Yup, Oklahoma. Which teams gave each other their only losses in 1964, 1966, 1971, 1975, 1978, 1979, and 1987, sidelining their National Title ambitions? Yup NU and OU.

As a Husker fan, of course I'm biased. But I'm thrilled about the possible schedule matchups. NU-OU every year as a season opener. NU-Michigan, NU-Ohio State, NU-Penn State! Who wouldn't want to watch those games every year? The Big 10 is all about tradition and legacy, which is something that both NU and Mizzou fit.

[BaltimoreFan]

Well... Vandy, GT, and MD have all been mentioned by someone close to the situation, according to ESPN. They literally described it as "Think outside the box." Vandy could work. It's in Big Ten Country, and would be one of the lesser teams like NW and Illinois. It also brings them into the basketball discussion, which is why I think the Big Ten would rather have Syracuse before Rutgers.

I could see Maryland being a dark horse candidate to join (this is assuming a 5 team expansion to make a super conference). Alot of Maryland fans have complained about the "pro-Carolina" officiating of the ACC. I've seen fans arguing to join the Big Ten years ago after bad games. If offered a spot, Maryland may take it.

Also I don't think geography is really relevant anymore. If the Big Ten wants to make a Super Conference, their going to get the 5 best teams they can. There's much less concern with travel distances these days.

[Seadragon76]

The way I see it, Notre Dame is the key to this arguement.

What I think might happen is Notre Dame saying no to the Big Ten (again) and actually jumping on board to be in the Big East. They're already members of the Big East in other sports, so to join the Big East for football makes logical sense.

One good thing out of this is the easier road towards a BCS bid for the Irish. Being in the Big Ten means playing and fighting off Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State, etc. I think that ND fans would rather beat up on Louisville, USF, and so forth and reach the BCS and the big bucks that way.

If Notre Dame says no the Big East, then they may have to force themselves into doing something that might not be good for the conference, like adding Army and Navy as football only members or even asking Villanova and Georgetown to move up to FBS level play.

[ESTONES6]

If ND says NO with this current offer... I could see The Big Ten only having 14 teams with Nebraska, Mizzou, and Rutgers. Then once ND comes to their senses, they will offer them the 15th position, with a 16th hinging on Pitt/WV/Cuse.

[pianoknight]

While ND makes a lot of sense, there's strong feelings against them to. JoePa maintains that they were given a chance back in the 90's when Penn State joined and since they declined once they shouldn't be offered again. Also the Big East does make a much easier route to the [edit] BCS [edit].

Of course the Pac 10, SEC and ACC are all looking to expand so this whole thing is a giant FUBAR.

What do you guys think about this? Assume NU and Mizzou stay put, and the Big XII adds Houston, TCU, Rice and North Texas. The new South Division would be the Texas schools (UT, A&M, TTU, Baylor, TCU, Houston, Rice, NTU) and the North Division would be the same (NU, CU, KU, KSU, MU, ISU) and they bump up Oklahoma and Ok State to the North.

[Seadragon76]

What do you guys think about this? Assume NU and Mizzou stay put, and the Big XII adds Houston, TCU, Rice and North Texas. The new South Division would be the Texas schools (UT, A&M, TTU, Baylor, TCU, Houston, Rice, NTU) and the North Division would be the same (NU, CU, KU, KSU, MU, ISU) and they bump up Oklahoma and Ok State to the North.

Uh, no.

If you do that, you might as well spilt the two divisions and turn them into the old Big Eight and SWC once again. The North teams being the Big 8 and the South teams being the SWC.

To me, a 16 team superconference is very dangerous and there is a precidence of having a conference that large failing. Look at the WAC during the mid 90's. Half of the schools in this enlarged WAC weren't happy with things and they left. Those eight formed the Mountain West Conference while the WAC was struggling for a while before Boise State joined in 2001.

[CubsFanBudMan]

Despite the unusual outreach, adding Rutgers does make sense and here's why: its close proximity to New York City (#1 Ratings Market!) and further encroaching on and possible puncturing of the Big East Conference.

The invitation to Notre Dame does not make any sense, at least from an academic standpoint, since they are not a part of the Association of American Universities.

And membership in said association is invitation-based. I'm pretty sure such an invitation would be forthcoming were Notre Dame to join the Big Ten.

I could be wrong, but I believe joining the AAU was a previous Big Ten expansion hangup -- for Notre Dame. Something about the values not matching up with a Catholic university.

Seeing as Notre Dame would have been a Big Ten member as of the early 2000s before some very last minute cold feet on Notre Dame's part, any AAU issues are overblown. There's also the 1998 invitation to join the Big Ten that Notre Dame turned down.

My point was that the AAU was not an issue for the Big Ten invitation before, but was one of the reasons Notre Dame had the cold feet you mention.

I'll have to look that up.