Marlins ditching teal in new color scheme

[Lights Out]

There's no single magic number. But a great young team, stocked with stars, should be drawing better than they are.

They're currently 10th in the AL in attendance - much better than what they used to draw. Another deep playoff run and/or a World Series title will probably boost those numbers even further.

[Gothamite]

There's no single magic number. But a great young team, stocked with stars, should be drawing better than they are.

They're currently 10th in the AL in attendance - much better than what they used to draw. Another deep playoff run and/or a World Series title will probably boost those numbers even further.

It sounds so impressive when you say it that way - "10th in the AL in attendance".

But in context - "10th out of 14 teams" - it's hardly anything to be proud of.

[bcdevil]

There's no room for a third team. Like I said before, it's the equivalent of saying a third team can work in Chicago.

I am not advocating moving the Rays to NJ but I don't agree with your analysis. The NY metropolitan area has 20 million people, Chicago has half of that. Northern NJ alone has 4+ million people. They're not equivalent at all. As the crow flies, I live about 16 miles each from 2 MLB teams(Mets fan in a family of Yankee fans). If I want to go to a game at either place, more often than not, I have to give myself 2 hours to get there. If I could get to an MLB game in a half hour or less, I would go much more often than I do now, which is about 10 times a season.

[NYYNYR]

There's no room for a third team. Like I said before, it's the equivalent of saying a third team can work in Chicago.

I am not advocating moving the Rays to NJ but I don't agree with your analysis. The NY metropolitan area has 20 million people, Chicago has half of that. Northern NJ alone has 4+ million people. They're not equivalent at all. As the crow flies, I live about 16 miles each from 2 MLB teams(Mets fan in a family of Yankee fans). If I want to go to a game at either place, more often than not, I have to give myself 2 hours to get there. If I could get to an MLB game in a half hour or less, I would go much more often than I do now, which is about 10 times a season.

Sorry if this is done wrong. First post. Miami Flag

Could we see the possible incorporation of these colors, above? Not a true, true orange, but we can keep the orange and replace teal with this green. Nice.

~NYYNYR (a Yankee/ Ranger fan)

[CubsFanBudMan]

So, the problem is... what, exactly?

The roof?

The outfield dimensions?

What exactly is forcing all the Tampa Bay area baseball fans to avoid watching the best team in baseball live and in person?

If they need a state-of-the-art stadium with all the distractions or a pretty backdrop to justify buying tickets, then it proves my point - lousy baseball market.

Well, that argument has worked for other teams for years, most notably the other one in the state that is getting theirs built right now.

Again, it's only June 14. The 1984 Cubs really kicked into full gear on June 23 and they only averaged 26,000. The latter number is irrelevant, but the date isn't. Attendance should pick up in the summer for a team this good. It did by 5,000 a game in 2008 and if it does that again it will climb the rankings considerably. (Good point on the summer night games.)

And remember this is only the third year of Rays baseball being anywhere near competitive. The problem might be that the market itself was tainted by years of neglect. Florida was hit hard by the economy and maybe they didn't show up in droves last year because they got out of the gate slow. But they still built on that 5,000 increase. I just don't know if we've really had a chance to see what the market can be. These might be the years to form an opinion on the market.

I might not have thought it a few years back, but I think Tampa Bay is a salvageable market. Again, where are they going to go? And why shouldn't the A's or some other team be put there first.

(If loving the Marlins in teal is wrong, I don't want to be right.)

[Gothamite]

Again, where are they going to go?

Ay, there's the rub.

Were there another available market, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation. That lack is the only thing keeping the Rays from relocation talk.

[SilverNRed]

This should probably go into the Grind your gears thread, but it is kind of on (the new) topic so I will just say it here. I have lived down in the Tampa Bay region for a year now (thats a gear grinder itself) and the vocal support for the Rays is fantastic, but people are always coming up with excuses as to why they don't go to games. It's too far away (Wrong, it's right off of the highway and easy to get to), it's too expensive (Some of the cheapest tickets in MLB for one of the best teams), the Trop is a horrible building (It's not great, but compared to some of the old 70's donuts it's nice for the average fan.) But the number one excuse is parking. "$20 for parking is insane!" say the locals. Nevermind the fact that there are five dollar lots all over the place if you don't mind walking 3 blocks.

If the best thing you can say about the Trop is that it's pretty good compared to the concrete donut stadiums that were built in the 1970's, that's fairly alarming.

I think the big knock is that it's indoors. Tropicana Field looks like a giant gymnasium that just happens to be hosting a baseball game. A big part of baseball's appeal is that it's our summer sport and that you're outside in the sun when you're watching it. That goes double for an area like Tampa Bay where people revel in being outside in the warm weather. (Isn't that why people move there?)

Here in Seattle, being at Safeco Field is wildly different (and better) when the roof is open than it is when it's closed. I love that park but I don't know how often I'd fight traffic after work to get to a game if I knew the roof was going to be closed permanently.

The part where the park has a crummy location probably factors in as well. And even if ticket prices are low compared to other MLB cities, it adds up: you're asking people with families to pile into the car, drive to some stadium that's out of the way, pay MLB prices to get in, and then sit inside on a nice summer night when you want to be outside. That sounds pretty bad.

All that said, the most disturbing thing about everything you wrote is that the Fabulous Sports Babe is apparently still active. The horror.

[IceCap]

There's no room for a third team. Like I said before, it's the equivalent of saying a third team can work in Chicago.

I am not advocating moving the Rays to NJ but I don't agree with your analysis. The NY metropolitan area has 20 million people, Chicago has half of that. Northern NJ alone has 4+ million people. They're not equivalent at all. As the crow flies, I live about 16 miles each from 2 MLB teams(Mets fan in a family of Yankee fans). If I want to go to a game at either place, more often than not, I have to give myself 2 hours to get there. If I could get to an MLB game in a half hour or less, I would go much more often than I do now, which is about 10 times a season.

The amount of people really isn't a factor. Sure, the numbers are there to theoretically split the market three ways, but realistically is it possible? The Yankees and Mets have a pretty tight grip on the region. There's no demand. The vast majority of those 20 million are loyal to the Yankees and Mets, they won't support a third team. A team in northern New Jersey is simply a ridiculous notion.

This should probably go into the Grind your gears thread, but it is kind of on (the new) topic so I will just say it here. I have lived down in the Tampa Bay region for a year now (thats a gear grinder itself) and the vocal support for the Rays is fantastic, but people are always coming up with excuses as to why they don't go to games. It's too far away (Wrong, it's right off of the highway and easy to get to), it's too expensive (Some of the cheapest tickets in MLB for one of the best teams), the Trop is a horrible building (It's not great, but compared to some of the old 70's donuts it's nice for the average fan.) But the number one excuse is parking. "$20 for parking is insane!" say the locals. Nevermind the fact that there are five dollar lots all over the place if you don't mind walking 3 blocks.

My biggest problem... the local ESPN Radio affiliate plays the Yankee games... all 162. Then the sports talk hosts (The Fabulous Sports Babe, remember her!) complain about people that have lived here for 20 years not supporting the Rays.

We can discuss the merits of cities being major league caliber (population, local business, money in the region, ect...) but sometimes I think a city should just pass the "does this town feel Major League" test. What does your gut say. For Tampa, my gut says "no." I mean, I know way to many born and raised locals that think hanging out at an Applebee's bar is a fun Friday night. That shouldn't happen in a major league city!

Teal is awesome!

Parking is an excuse that's being given? For the love of all that's Holy....can the team just move?

[-kj]

There's no single magic number. But a great young team, stocked with stars, should be drawing better than they are.

They're currently 10th in the AL in attendance - much better than what they used to draw. Another deep playoff run and/or a World Series title will probably boost those numbers even further.

It sounds so impressive when you say it that way - "10th in the AL in attendance".

But in context - "10th out of 14 teams" - it's hardly anything to be proud of.

This is a terrible argument. Let's say, hypothetically, that all fourteen teams sold out their stadiums. Would the bottom teams, based on stadium size, be in discussion for relocation? Why aren't we talking about the four teams below the Rays as needing to be moved?

[dgthree]

There's no single magic number. But a great young team, stocked with stars, should be drawing better than they are.

They're currently 10th in the AL in attendance - much better than what they used to draw. Another deep playoff run and/or a World Series title will probably boost those numbers even further.

It sounds so impressive when you say it that way - "10th in the AL in attendance".

But in context - "10th out of 14 teams" - it's hardly anything to be proud of.

This is a terrible argument. Let's say, hypothetically, that all fourteen teams sold out their stadiums. Would the bottom teams, based on stadium size, be in discussion for relocation? Why aren't we talking about the four teams below the Rays as needing to be moved?

Bottom 10 by attendance

1. Florida Marlins, 16,267

2. Cleveland Indians, 16,604

3. Toronto Blue Jays, 17,586

4. Pittsburgh Pirates, 17,828

5. Oakland Athletics, 17,838

6. Kansas City Royals, 19,586

7. Cincinnati Reds, 21,819

8. Tampa Bay Rays, 22,301

9. Chicago White Sox, 23,202

10. Baltimore Orioles, 23,719

Bottom 10 by % of stadium filled

1. Toronto Blue Jays, 35%

2. Cleveland Indians, 39%

3. Oakland Athletics, 41%

4. Florida Marlins, 45%

5. Pittsburgh Pirates, 47%

6. Arizona Diamondbacks, 48%

7. Baltimore Orioles, 49%

8. Tampa Bay Rays, 51%

9. Kansas City Royals, 51%

10. Cincinnati Reds, 52%

Top 10 by attendance

1. New York Yankees, 45,177

2. Philadelphia Phillies, 45,065

3. Los Angeles Dodgers, 43,909

4. St. Louis Cardinals, 39,758

5. Los Angeles Angels, 39,383

6. Minnesota Twins, 39,001

7. Chicago Cubs, 38,598

8. Boston Red Sox, 37,549

9. San Francisco Giants, 35,745

10. Milwaukee Brewers, 34,775

Top 10 by % of stadium filled

1. Philadelphia Phillies, 104%

2. Boston Red Sox, 101%

3. Minnesota Twins, 99%

4. Chicago Cubs, 94%

5. Los Angeles Angels, 87%

6. New York Yankees, 86%

7. San Francisco Giants, 86%

8. St. Louis Cardinals, 85%

9. Milwaukee Brewers, 82%

10. New York Mets, 79%

[IceCap]

There's no single magic number. But a great young team, stocked with stars, should be drawing better than they are.

They're currently 10th in the AL in attendance - much better than what they used to draw. Another deep playoff run and/or a World Series title will probably boost those numbers even further.

It sounds so impressive when you say it that way - "10th in the AL in attendance".

But in context - "10th out of 14 teams" - it's hardly anything to be proud of.

This is a terrible argument. Let's say, hypothetically, that all fourteen teams sold out their stadiums. Would the bottom teams, based on stadium size, be in discussion for relocation? Why aren't we talking about the four teams below the Rays as needing to be moved?

I would that's because the Rays are the best team in the Majors. They're a number one team performance-wise and a number ten team attendance wise.

[Lights Out]

Again I must stress that it takes time to build a fanbase. The Rays previously didn't have the stellar record necessary to truly compete with the Yankees, Mets, and Red Sox for the Tampa market. Now that they're good, more and more people are making the switch to the Rays and going to games - hence the improvement from dead last or second-to-last all the way to 10th in the AL. However, teams aren't going to leap from the bottom of the league in attendance to the top of the league overnight - despite the team's record. It takes time for a truly dedicated fanbase to develop to increase those numbers. A championship or several will increase those numbers too.

[powersurge]

There's no single magic number. But a great young team, stocked with stars, should be drawing better than they are.

They're currently 10th in the AL in attendance - much better than what they used to draw. Another deep playoff run and/or a World Series title will probably boost those numbers even further.

It sounds so impressive when you say it that way - "10th in the AL in attendance".

But in context - "10th out of 14 teams" - it's hardly anything to be proud of.

This is a terrible argument. Let's say, hypothetically, that all fourteen teams sold out their stadiums. Would the bottom teams, based on stadium size, be in discussion for relocation? Why aren't we talking about the four teams below the Rays as needing to be moved?

Honestly? Probably because most if not all of those teams that are below them in attendance have won a pennant more than once and at least one World Series. Before we crown the Rays the best small market team in baseball lets wait till they make it back to the series again and actually win one. While we're at it lets have them win two so that they could at least be on par with their home state brothers down south. Thats my guess and I think its a good one.

[Gothamite]

That's a totally different question. We don't yet know if they'll be one of the best teams in baseball for any extended period of time.

But they are one of the best teams in baseball now, have been for a couple years, and nobody in the area cares.

This is when Tampa Bay steps up. Until and unless they do, I stand by my assertion that they have demonstrated it to be a lousy baseball market.

This is exactly the same conversation we keep having about the Coyotes - defenders complain that the team hasn't been good enough to justify anybody actually going to the games, others ask how long do they have to continue failing before we're willing to cut losses. The only difference is that baseball is a healthier sport than hockey overall, so even the worst clubs in baseball are better off than the worst hockey teams. But the core argument is the same.

As both a former Brooklynite and former Milwaukeean, I am not one to move teams. I know the wounds that can leave behind in a fanbase, even decades later. But the fanbase also has to take some responsibility for at the very least showing up.

[CubsFanBudMan]

This is when Tampa Bay steps up. Until and unless they do, I stand by my assertion that they have demonstrated it to be a lousy baseball market.

I think that's fair.

However, I think the Rays are still a ways away from Coyotes territory, and maybe it is due to MLB vs. NHL. But that team went bankrupt before it started winning just this year. We are past the Tampa Bay bottoming out phase, and as far as I know the owners aren't trying to unload the team or break the lease to move the team. So that bottom wasn't quite as deep as the Coyotes'. Meanwhile, there is also a first place MLB team in bankruptcy, and another that went through it after back-to-back division titles. Cosmetic or not, I think those taint the league worse than 23,000 at a Rays game.

(Have I mentioned how much I like the Marlins in teal or any shade of Marlin Blue. It would be a shame if they ever went away from it. However, last night's ESPN broadcast used teal -- NW Green? -- as the Mariners' color in the scorebox, so there is hope in MLB.)

[Chawls]

Top 10 by % of stadium filled

1. Philadelphia Phillies, 104%

2. Boston Red Sox, 101%

3. Minnesota Twins, 99%

4. Chicago Cubs, 94%

5. Los Angeles Angels, 87%

6. New York Yankees, 86%

7. San Francisco Giants, 86%

8. St. Louis Cardinals, 85%

9. Milwaukee Brewers, 82%

10. New York Mets, 79%

How is that mathematically possible?

[The_Admiral]

Standing room only isn't included in seating capacity. There's a lot of concourse space available at Citizens for people to pack in.

[Anubis2051]

Top 10 by % of stadium filled

1. Philadelphia Phillies, 104%

2. Boston Red Sox, 101%

3. Minnesota Twins, 99%

4. Chicago Cubs, 94%

5. Los Angeles Angels, 87%

6. New York Yankees, 86%

7. San Francisco Giants, 86%

8. St. Louis Cardinals, 85%

9. Milwaukee Brewers, 82%

10. New York Mets, 79%

How is that mathematically possible?

Large Bandwagons

[SilverNRed]

Top 10 by % of stadium filled

1. Philadelphia Phillies, 104%

2. Boston Red Sox, 101%

3. Minnesota Twins, 99%

4. Chicago Cubs, 94%

5. Los Angeles Angels, 87%

6. New York Yankees, 86%

7. San Francisco Giants, 86%

8. St. Louis Cardinals, 85%

9. Milwaukee Brewers, 82%

10. New York Mets, 79%

How is that mathematically possible?

Overweight fans.

[raysox]

The Rays attendance WILL be up this summer. Most adults are implants, but some are Rays fans. Most of the gear sold is to the kids in the area, who cant get to games during school months. In every league of baseball there is atleast one Rays team, kids love the team. So now that they're out of school currently they can go to night games. Hell, I get my license next month and plan to go to games often when that happens.

Also i do believe attendance is up this year.