Hockey Traditionalists Nightmare - Bettman Must Go

[Shmee]

Yes, I've played roller hockey - it's rec to guys that play hockey

I do play highly competive ice hockey

Smhee2k6: doesn't take much skill to play roller hockey - you probably use a one peice to play roller hockey

Probably? Not a good idea to assume, because you're wrong here. I use an Easton Typhoon 80 flex, and a Jagr curved fiber-lined wood blade. By one-piece I'm not sure if you were referring to a wood stick or something like the M-1, but in either case you're wrong. I've played 5-on-5, I've played ice, and I still go back to 4-on-4 roller. I play defense, and I find that playing D in roller is more difficult, and thus more exciting, BECAUSE there's no hitting.

[CC97]

It's a great hockey market; I'd bet it ranks up there with Detroit and Toronto as far as fan support goes.

I wouldn't go that far... I mean, the Leafs are a guaranteed sellout. San Jose has great support, and they are a good hockey town, but they aren't quite yet in the same league as Hockeytown Anglo-Canada and Hockeytown USA.

Unless you got numbers to back that up, I'd be careful about saying stuff like that.

This is true... look at ICS's ticket collection (from this year mind you), and look at my ticket collection from the past 4 years...

(no tickets)

Any questions?

[Notch Novelty]

.........................

[Roger Clemente]

There can be hitting in roller hockey if the rules are established. It's just that the rules of the RHI dictated no hitting. If someone wanted to start up their own local RH league with hitting and other NHL rules and penalties, what's to stop them?

To play roller hockey requires the same amount of skill as ice hockey. You need to know how to skate and how to play hockey. Not even a lack of rink can stop you, because you can play RH in any parking lot. (Which is a great place for games, as there are usually already lines painted on to use for goal lines and such).

The problems with your arguments, Mr. Petco, is that because you play ice hockey, you assume that you know everything about hockey. You assume that because San Jose has warm weather, that they are incapable of supporting an ice hockey team. You assume that because the weather is perfect for playing roller hockey, that they are incapable of following or knowing the rules of ice hockey.

You assumed wrong. You were proven wrong. With facts.

Don't you know the saying that assuming makes u an ass? (I know it's supposed to say "Assuming makes an ASS out of U and ME", but honestly, how does someone else assuming something make me an ass?)

What about those Canadian hockey made cities during the summer time when it's like 35 degrees Celcius outside? Then I'm willing to bet a cool ice hockey game is an entertaining option, just like in, say, SAN JOSE!

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

[Brian in Boston]

... no one takes Roller Hockey serious, come on now

Correction... no one takes YOU seriously.

Then again, it would impossible to do so, given the flat-out ignorance displayed in every single post that you've made to this thread.

Here's a fact for you: You quickly seem to be wearing out your welcome on these boards. First, your popularity waned amongst those who participated in the various CCSL fantasy leagues with you. Now, you seem to be hell-bent on burning your bridges within the community as a whole.

The more posts I read from you, the more I believe that particular emphasis needs to be placed on the last three letters of your CCSLB name.

[Notch Novelty]

Arguement is not about community support.

Guys, I would hope you don't take me serious. It's a just someone's opinion. Nothing else, you can say Buffalo sucks this and that, that's fine, it's your opinion your not going to change mine and I hope I wouldn't change yours.

Facts? Come on, again it's not about how many people you put in the stands. It's about traditional hockey markets and rich youth hockey traditional.

I don't argue how many people are showing up in SJ.

What about Carolina? Where they only care about NASCAR. No one is defending Carolina, Miami, Phoenix

[Roger Clemente]

The argument seems to be that because San Jose is in California and not in a traditional stereotypical hockey market.

Hell, if hockey can be embraced in other cities like San Jose, then the NHL would be in great shape.

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

[Notch Novelty]

Actually I just dont want to see SJ vs TB, no one will watch besides people in SJ and TB

[Brian in Boston]

Oh, how interesting: notoriousap submits a post directly questioning whether or not I have any experience playing ice hockey, then, apparently realizing that 1) he has no way of knowing whether or not my experience surpasses his own, and 2) regardless of my ice hockey-playing experience, the content of my responding post is going to put his to shame, he quickly edits his post to remove any mention of me.

As a matter of fact Andy, I have "touched ice" other than what I put in my beverages. Mites up through midgets in youth hockey. High school hockey. Club hockey in college, as my university didn't have a varsity team at the time. Various men's rec leagues throughout my adult life. Oh... and I've regularly played in-line hockey - in both leagues that allowed and disallowed checking.

Let me guess? My hockey-playing experience STILL isn't good enough for you because I've never skated a regular shift with an NHL team.

You know, given the level of "intellect" contained in your posts (non-existant), I'm guessing that you're one of those guys who skates around the ice using his stick as the third leg in a wobbly human tripod, with his head down and his eyes glued to the ice surface. It's the only skating method I can conceive of that would have resulted in you skating head-first into the boards so many times, thus resulting in the acute traumatic brain injury from which you so obviously seem to be suffering.

Your act is getting tired, Andy. Are you ever going to figure out how to function on the boards with a modicum of maturity?

[Notch Novelty]

Glad to hear Brian

[Joshawaggie]

Actually I just dont want to see SJ vs TB, no one will watch besides people in SJ and TB

sorry I had to use that pic somewhere. I would totally watch a TB/SJ final, and i dont live anywhere near one of those cities.

[Roger Clemente]

The thing is though is that no matter who is in the Cup Finals, nobody is going to watch it anyways except for the hockey fans.

Then again, I read somewhere that last year's Game 7 was an amazingly high rating...for hockey standards. It was apparently the highest rated hockey broadcast since the Miracle On Ice.

Maybe the reason why the last few Cup Finals ranked so low was because the same few teams were in it and nobody cared anymore. World Series and NBA Finals ratings have also been going downhill, and probably for the same reasons. (Yankees, Lakers). There's only one way for us to find out though.

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

[Shmee]

I'm HOPING Tampa Bay and San Jose make the finals. That would probably be the fastest, most exciting hockey in recent memory and would be the best way to end the current NHL era. I'd watch it in a heartbeat. I live on Long Island. Your arguments that cities determine who watches the Stanley Cup finals is assinine.

As far as my size, I'm 5'5'' but I pack a pretty good slapshot behind me. Last time I had it clocked (at my teammate's request after they saw me crack a goalie's throat guard with a shot from the point) I was able to hit 87 MPH. I don't think that's too bad for a 15 year old, do you? And the shaft has never broken out on me. Blades, yes. Shafts? Hell no, I take care of my equipment.

[zer0dotcom]

What about Carolina? Where they only care about NASCAR. No one is defending Carolina, Miami, Phoenix

thats becasue the only market being attacked is San jose.

my presonal definition of hockey-

Hockey- a game where two opposing teams use sticks in order to put a puck or ball into the opposing team's net.

that can be done on the ice, like in professional hockey. it can be done on a floor or road, like in inline or road hockey. just becasuse it isn't played on the ice doesn't mean its not hockey. just because there isn''t bodychecking doesn't mean it isn't hockey. there are people who like to play without having to pick their teeth off the ice after tehy play, not everyone wants to smash and be smashed while they play. some just enjoy the skill and fun of playing.

as for this arguement, it's gotten wayout of any reasonable arguement. it seems more of one person voicing an opinion, perfectly fine, but then it's like this opinion is being used as a fact, but it has no evidnece to support it, and is not recognizing any facts that are being presented by anyone else.

as for me, and many of the people I know (whom I will be joining for) will be watching the playoofs through until the Stasnley Cup is presented, regardless of whcih teams are on the ice, and where or not it is a sunny day at teh beach. If Toronto and Calgary make it, SUPER! if not, theres always next season...

[RyanB06]

It's a great hockey market; I'd bet it ranks up there with Detroit and Toronto as far as fan support goes.

I wouldn't go that far... I mean, the Leafs are a guaranteed sellout. San Jose has great support, and they are a good hockey town, but they aren't quite yet in the same league as Hockeytown Anglo-Canada and Hockeytown USA.

Unless you got numbers to back that up, I'd be careful about saying stuff like that.

To wit, numbers:

Source: Historical NHL Attendance

AVERAGE ATTENDANCE      1991-92	1992-93	1993-94	1994-95	1995-96	1996-97	1997-98	1998-99	1999-00	2000-01  2001-02  2002-03   AggAvg
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
National Hockey League    14510   14045   14748   14797   15986   16548   16195   16311   16359   16549    16486    16591    15760
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boston             14273   14233   14073   14301   17361   15551   15098   16300   16323   15433    15404    15029    15282
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago         17509   17776   17771   20818   20391   19397   18356   17330   16274   14997    15569    14749    17578
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Colorado                                         16017   16061   16060   16061   18010   18007    18007    18007    17029
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Columbus                                                                              17457    18136    17744    17779
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dallas                               16119   16729   15572   15997   16449   16893   17001   17001    17628    18532    16792
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Detroit          19723   19707   19820   19780   19928   19976   19983   19983   19983   19995    20058    20058    19916
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Los Angeles          16005   15833   15677   15414   13556   12297   13019   12794   16519   15813    16314    17569    15068
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minnesota                                                                                    18328    18015    18500    18281
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Montreal         17005   17018   16986   16964   18233   21002   20772  	20741   20206   20105    18990    20672    19058
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Jersey          12837   13658   14821   16379  	16219   16398   17321   16695   15206   15642    15926    14858    15497
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New York R          16904  	17585   18008   18194   18200   18188   18200   18200   18200   18200    18039    18148    18006
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ottawa                    10485   10391    9879   13245   15377   16751   17219   17509   17793    16919    17198    14797
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
San Jose            10888   11045   16593   17190   17190   17420   17101   17149   17291   17468    16994    17350    16140
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tampa Bay                10014   19549   19934   18892   17419   13868   11511   13600   14907    15366    16545    15600
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Toronto        15586   15676   15722   15733   15729   15704   15710   16765   19158   19255    18338    19240    16885

Included in this are attendance totals for the past 12 seasons (beginning with San Jose's first season, 1991-92) for the Original 6 and selected other markets. The final column is the 12-year average attendance for each team and, for comparison, the NHL average.

Statistical examination shows that Detroit and Montreal are #1 and #2 in terms of average attendance. They also have huge buildings in terms of capacity (over 19,000 each), so that's to be expected. We can exclude Columbus and Minnesota because of small sample size (only 3 seasons). That makes Chicago #3 and Colorado #4. Toronto rounds the Top 5 out. San Jose is #7 behind Dallas.

San Jose's 12-year average beats out "traditional" markets like Boston, Ottawa, and three-time Cup champ New Jersey as well as long-time market Los Angeles and newcomer Tampa Bay.

SyPhi, you are correct, the assertion isn't quite backed up by the statistics. But San Jose more than holds its own with Hockeytown Anglo-Canada.

[EDIT:] Excuse the chart.

[Brass]

WARNING: Notoriusap, DO NOT look at my signature.

[STL FANATIC]

As much, as I don't want to see the Sharks--not the team from San Jose necessarily, the one named the Sharks--I figure a SJ vs. TB series would draw higher ratings then a Detroit vs. Philadelphia series. You figure true hockey fans are gonna watch it NO MATTER WHAT cities are in it. Then, since TB and SJ are NEW hockey markets, not necessarily bad ones, there are gonna be probably a lot of people there who jump on a bandwagon. (I'm not calling SJ or TB fans bandwagon fans, but when a championship comes, all teams get them, and in new markets like those cities, there's probably more fans not familar with hockey to become bandwagon fans.) You add those new bandwagon fans from the two cities to the fans who would watch anyway, and suddenly you have huge ratings. Why do you think the pretty finals got good ratings last year? The Ducks drew a lot of bandwagon fans probably because that's what championships in cities where they haven't come before do.

As for Detroit getting that "Hockeytown, USA" title, while it's another issue, that's crap. It was self-proclaimed title, and wait until they suck again. No offense Yzer, or any other truely committed Wing fan, but I think even you have admitted the city has a bunch of bandwagon fans in this recent era of Cups for the Wings.

[-kj]

It's just that the rules of the RHI dictated no hitting.

Actually, RHI was a full-check pro roller league.

And, there's PLENTY of ice hockey out there that's no check, though that doesn't necessarily mean it's no contact. Obviously these are amateur leagues.

One thing that's not been taken into account about specifically San Jose is that the Silicon Valley area has a TON of transplants from other areas, including Canada and the northern U.S. I would guess that this helped create a base of fans, who have obviously brought others into the game. The idea that San Jose isn't northern enough and therefore doesn't deserve hockey is ludicrous.

The again, I haven't known notoriousap to use logic to apply to anything, so this isn't surprising.

[Roger Clemente]

One thing that's not been taken into account about specifically San Jose is that the Silicon Valley area has a TON of transplants from other areas, including Canada and the northern U.S. I would guess that this helped create a base of fans, who have obviously brought others into the game. The idea that San Jose isn't northern enough and therefore doesn't deserve hockey is ludicrous.

Maybe that's why it's called San Jose, called it's full of hockey loving hosers!

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

[IronChefShark]

Maybe that's why it's called San Jose, called it's full of hockey loving hosers!

thats my future home town!