2011 Final Four

[CS85]

Worst. Championship. Game. Ever.

[NJTank]

I waiting for that.

[McCall]

That said, I'm wondering if the NCAA talent pool somewhat suffers because the NBA has the draft policy that they do? If they adopted one similar to MLB (out of high school OK, but once in college, three years must pass), maybe the quality of the college game might improve.

There's two schools of thought on this. I guess it depends on which you'd prefer.

If the NBA adopts an MLB-style rule to their drafts, the college game probably improves some (the top talents that'd be a one-and-done in college now go straight to the NBA prevents the college game from improving dramatically), and it also probably cleans up the NBA talent pool some and improves the pro game. Of course, the major conferences' teams likely get stronger, as the mid-majors' schools success usually comes from players staying for 3-4 years, and that advantage gets taken away from the likes of Butler, Gonzaga, etc.

Of course, if we keep the current draft policy, parity will remain in college basketball, and we'll no longer be suprised if mid-major schools make the Final Four and no #1 seeds make it to the Final Four.

For every KG, Kobe and LeBron, there's about 10 more Sebastian Telfairs, Kwame Browns and Korleone Youngs. In my day, the only pro ballers who never played in college were Moses Malone and Shawn Kemp.

Exactly. Not that many HS guys have actually made it in the league. The only other ones who had some success were T-Mac, who's career due to injuries washed up earlier than expected, and maybe Jermaine O'Neal, who actually didn't play much during his first few years in the league when he was with Portland. Not until he went to Indiana did he start to become an All-Star. Basically, he could've gone to college for 3-4 years and actually played and then came into the league at the level he ended up at, maybe even better. But when you got young guys coming in after 1 year of college cuz somebody told them they're gonna make it, it ruins the league entirely. The NBA would benefit from having players being drafted with at least 3 years of college experience and the NCAA would benefit from having some continuity for at least 3 years with those players. It's a win-win. The money's gonna be there. They're going to school on scholarships so it's not like it's costing them any money. Plus going straight to the pros or one and done means they're going in as teenagers who aren't really mature enough to handle millions of dollars and always seem to surround themselves with the wrong kind of people. Go to college. Have some fun enjoying the college life. Get at least some of an education and mature so you can deal with being a millionaire when you do eventually get into the NBA.

[Billy B]

I always felt a way to add importence to the reguar season is to cap all conference tournament at 8 teams, and cap the number of teams that can go to NCAA at 8 per league as well.

That really only hurts the Big East though. All 11 teams that they sent to the Tournament this year deserved to make it. Most teams didn't capitalize on their opportunity, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have made it in the first place. The Big East only sent a slightly bigger proportion of their teams than the Big Ten did.

The Big East did not deserve 11 and the Big Ten did not deserve seven. Out of those 18 teams, only 4, 2 each conference, made it to the sweet 16. Cap each conference selections at half their league total. Big East no more than 8, Big Ten and the other 12 team leagues no more than 6, and the Big 12 no more than 5 starting next year. I'd rather they cap a conferences total number of teams at 12, but it doesn't seem likely.

I think it's pretty hard to make an argument to put Colorado, Virginia Tech, and St. Mary's into the tournament over the 9th, 10th, and 11th teams that got in from the Big East. Setting a maximum number of teams would only hurt teams for playing in a conference that had a strong year.

[loogodude90]

... And that NCAA Final reminded me EXACTLY why I don't follow college sports.

[McCall]

I always felt a way to add importence to the reguar season is to cap all conference tournament at 8 teams, and cap the number of teams that can go to NCAA at 8 per league as well.

That really only hurts the Big East though. All 11 teams that they sent to the Tournament this year deserved to make it. Most teams didn't capitalize on their opportunity, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have made it in the first place. The Big East only sent a slightly bigger proportion of their teams than the Big Ten did.

The Big East did not deserve 11 and the Big Ten did not deserve seven. Out of those 18 teams, only 4, 2 each conference, made it to the sweet 16. Cap each conference selections at half their league total. Big East no more than 8, Big Ten and the other 12 team leagues no more than 6, and the Big 12 no more than 5 starting next year. I'd rather they cap a conferences total number of teams at 12, but it doesn't seem likely.

I think it's pretty hard to make an argument to put Colorado, Virginia Tech, and St. Mary's into the tournament over the 9th, 10th, and 11th teams that got in from the Big East. Setting a maximum number of teams would only hurt teams for playing in a conference that had a strong year.

Then you're simply rewarding teams for being in a stronger conference regardless of how they finish. Colorado and Virginia Tech are from Power Conferences, so you can't really make that argument. Yes, the Big East may be the top, but they're still on the same level. How well did the Big East do outside the conferece? That's what should really decide how strong the conference is.

[McCall]

... And that NCAA Final reminded me EXACTLY why I don't follow college sports.

One bad college game is a bigger rarity, and still more exciting, than a good NBA game. It just happened to be magnitized because it was the title game. Both teams have had unbelievable runs over the last month that has forced them to play a lot of games in a short time. They're tired out. Not an excuse, but I'd still rather see a college game anyday over an NBA game. At least they try in college.

[loogodude90]

... And that NCAA Final reminded me EXACTLY why I don't follow college sports.

One bad college game is a bigger rarity, and still more exciting, than a good NBA game. It just happened to be magnitized because it was the title game. Both teams have had unbelievable runs over the last month that has forced them to play a lot of games in a short time. They're tired out. Not an excuse, but I'd still rather see a college game anyday over an NBA game. At least they try in college.

That's kind of my point, though. A title game, in any sport, should never be that ugly. If it is, then there's something wrong with the way those teams are getting there. And if the players are too tired to compete at a level that's enjoyable to watch (for most of the game; overtime is another story), then that's also a problem inherent to the system itself.

As for NBA players not trying, I agree that there are several guys in the league who don't appear to try or care, but it's not as common as you make it sound. And I actually think that the skill levels of some NBA players is so high that they just look like they aren't trying. Kobe Bryant and LeBron James never really look like they are trying. That's not because they are bad, it's because they are that good.

[Red Wolf]

... And that NCAA Final reminded me EXACTLY why I don't follow college sports.

One bad college game is a bigger rarity, and still more exciting, than a good NBA game. It just happened to be magnitized because it was the title game. Both teams have had unbelievable runs over the last month that has forced them to play a lot of games in a short time. They're tired out. Not an excuse, but I'd still rather see a college game anyday over an NBA game. At least they try in college.

That's kind of my point, though. A title game, in any sport, should never be that ugly. If it is, then there's something wrong with the way those teams are getting there. And if the players are too tired to compete at a level that's enjoyable to watch (for most of the game; overtime is another story), then that's also a problem inherent to the system itself.

I disagree completely. Butler vs. Duke last year was a good game. And there have been plenty of well-played championship games in college basketball. Butler had pretty much the worst offensive performance ever in a college basketball championship. I think that counts as an aberration.

[WSU151]

... And that NCAA Final reminded me EXACTLY why I don't follow college sports.

One bad college game is a bigger rarity, and still more exciting, than a good NBA game. It just happened to be magnitized because it was the title game. Both teams have had unbelievable runs over the last month that has forced them to play a lot of games in a short time. They're tired out. Not an excuse, but I'd still rather see a college game anyday over an NBA game. At least they try in college.

I don't really agree with this. There was a lot of bad basketball in the NCAA tournament (poor shots, poor defense, poor decisions, poor fouls, etc.). Just because there are exciting finishes doesn't mean it's good basketball. College basketball is filled with awful players who think they're good because they got all the attention in high shool and play D-1 ball; a large part of the blame goes to ESPN and YouTube as well for hyping these kids, stroking their egos, leading them to believe what they see and read. It doesn't mean that they're good, though. I think one of the problems is "top" HS/college basketball players are rarely humbled like baseball, football, or hockey players are humbled. With a few exceptions, the kids who think they're awesome and who do the one-year of college and then drafted are usually mediocre reserves in the NBA. Granted, I'm awful myself, and I'm not saying I could take these guys one-on-five, but you'd think there would be better talent at the premier D-1 schools (or any D-1 school) than what was on display this year.

The NBA talent level is so far ahead of the college level right now (as it should be). 10 years ago, I don't know if there was as a wide margin between the two as there is now. I watched the Lakers-Jazz game on Friday and while it might sound like a bad game (Lakers won by 20-some), the game was a fight until the 4th quarter, and it was great basketball all the way through. Though I hate the 1-on-1 emphasis in the NBA, I'd much rather watch that style than the college pass-it-and-jack-it.

[Lights Out]

I disagree completely. Butler vs. Duke last year was a good game. And there have been plenty of well-played championship games in college basketball. Butler had pretty much the worst offensive performance ever in a college basketball championship. I think that counts as an aberration.

Not to mention, UConn played an uncharacteristically bad game as well. They just happened to get luckier with their shot selection. Might I add that they only beat the team with said offensive meltdown by 12?

If only we could have a rematch when both teams are well-rested, then we could find the true champion.

[rams80]

I always felt a way to add importence to the reguar season is to cap all conference tournament at 8 teams, and cap the number of teams that can go to NCAA at 8 per league as well.

That really only hurts the Big East though. All 11 teams that they sent to the Tournament this year deserved to make it. Most teams didn't capitalize on their opportunity, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have made it in the first place. The Big East only sent a slightly bigger proportion of their teams than the Big Ten did.

Well good, maybe the Big East will jettison some teams out of that little Co-Prosperity Sphere of theirs and resurrect a Conference schedule where you play more than a small handful of your Conference foes twice a year in the regular season.

[Jamikel]

Worst. Championship. Game. Ever.

Forget championship game. That might have been the worst basketball game I've ever seen, period.

[See Red]

I disagree completely. Butler vs. Duke last year was a good game. And there have been plenty of well-played championship games in college basketball. Butler had pretty much the worst offensive performance ever in a college basketball championship. I think that counts as an aberration.

Not to mention, UConn played an uncharacteristically bad game as well. They just happened to get luckier with their shot selection. Might I add that they only beat the team with said offensive meltdown by 12?

If only we could have a rematch when both teams are well-rested, then we could find the true champion.

"Luckier with their shot selection"?

What does that even mean?

To kind of defend the teams a little bit, it's been said that it's considerably more difficult to shoot the ball with a backdrop like the one you would get in a stadium like Reliant Stadium than it is in a regular basketball arena. UConn looked really fatigued to me, especially Kemba Walker.

[Lights Out]

Their shots were falling, Butler couldn't hit the water if they fell out of a boat. In retrospect, I have no idea what possessed me to write "shot selection" instead of just writing that last sentence, but whatever.

[WSU151]

To kind of defend the teams a little bit, it's been said that it's considerably more difficult to shoot the ball with a backdrop like the one you would get in a stadium like Reliant Stadium than it is in a regular basketball arena.

Argument would be more believable if they hadn't played a game on the same floor Saturday night, plus all the practices since what, Thursday?

[jkrdevil]

To kind of defend the teams a little bit, it's been said that it's considerably more difficult to shoot the ball with a backdrop like the one you would get in a stadium like Reliant Stadium than it is in a regular basketball arena.

Argument would be more believable if they hadn't played a game on the same floor Saturday night, plus all the practices since what, Thursday?

The shooting Saturday Night was poor as well. I mean not as bad as last night and obviously the dome isn't the only reason, but it is a reason for in general poor shooting.

[The_Admiral]

I'd still rather see a college game anyday over an NBA game. At least they try in college.

Remind me never to go out to dinner with you, McCall.

"blecch! This burger is terrible!"

"Yeah, but did you see how the cook was grimacing as he prepared it? He was really grinding that meat!"

see because he's a grinder and

[McCall]

I'd still rather see a college game anyday over an NBA game. At least they try in college.

Remind me never to go out to dinner with you, McCall.

"blecch! This burger is terrible!"

"Yeah, but did you see how the cook was grimacing as he prepared it? He was really grinding that meat!"

see because he's a grinder and

That makes no sense whatsoever.

[The_Admiral]

Tying your enjoyment of a product to the perceived level of effort makes no sense.