NHL OFFSEASON - 2011

[The_Admiral]

The Dallas Stars were built from the top down by spending lots of money in free agency in order to be good during a lull in Dallas sports. Now that they can't buy wins, and the other teams are compelling, there's no reason to spend money on them.

Buy me Brett Hull and Ed Belfour near the top of their game and I'll make hockey a success in Caracas, Venezuela.

[rvrdgsfn]

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/2011/09/14/18686221.html?cid=rsssportsslam!%20hockey

Aubut: NHL in Quebec City soon

Marcel Aubut, who sold the Quebec Nordiques 16 years ago, says he thinks NHL hockey will return to the provincial capital within two years.

Six U.S. NHL franchises are in trouble and ripe for relocation, Aubut told QMI Agency.

Aubut sold the money-losing Nordiques to American interests in 1995 and the team moved to Colorado that same year to become the Avalanche.

Aubut says he wants to make things right with Quebec's jilted hockey fans.

"It interests me because I participated in the departure and return," said Aubut, referring to his recent lobbying efforts.

"It's really coming full circle."

[Eye]

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/2011/09/14/18686221.html?cid=rsssportsslam!%20hockey

Six U.S. NHL franchises are in trouble and ripe for relocation, Aubut told QMI Agency.

Coyotes, Islanders, Panthers, Blue Jackets(?), Predators(?), Stars(?).

[Sport]

Despite everything else going wrong in the hockey world this offseason, Columbus' offseason has been just peachy. Here's more news that isn't bad:

http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/content/blogs/puck-rakers/2011/09/full-proposal.html

This is the reason I was never concerned with the team leaving. There's too many civic and team officials with too much to lose to let the team walk. The arena district relies on the team (as evidenced by the trouble it had during the lockout) and the team leaving would kill that area of downtown, subsequently killing a downtown that has struggled for forever to attract residents and money spending suburbanites.

Further, it'd be a PR nightmare for Nationwide Insurance to be the one to kill the team in their own city with the building their name is on. Now they're a part of the solution instead of being the problem.

They're working to solve their biggest problem and that's good to see.

[DEAD!]

Well this isn't bad news

http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/content/blogs/puck-rakers/2011/09/full-proposal.html

This is the reason I was never concerned with the team leaving. There's too many civic and team officials with too much to lose to let the team walk. The arena district relies on the team (as evidenced by the trouble it had during the lockout) and the team leaving would kill that area of downtown, subsequently killing a downtown that has struggled for forever to attract residents and money spending suburbanites.

Further, it'd be a PR nightmare for Nationwide Insurance to be the one to kill the team in their own city with the building their name is on. Now they're a part of the solution instead of being the problem.

They're working to solve their biggest problem and that's good to see.

... just like Glendale...

[Sport]

Well this isn't bad news

http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/content/blogs/puck-rakers/2011/09/full-proposal.html

This is the reason I was never concerned with the team leaving. There's too many civic and team officials with too much to lose to let the team walk. The arena district relies on the team (as evidenced by the trouble it had during the lockout) and the team leaving would kill that area of downtown, subsequently killing a downtown that has struggled for forever to attract residents and money spending suburbanites.

Further, it'd be a PR nightmare for Nationwide Insurance to be the one to kill the team in their own city with the building their name is on. Now they're a part of the solution instead of being the problem.

They're working to solve their biggest problem and that's good to see.

... just like Glendale...

You're not wrong, the difference is the Arena District in Columbus is a place people actually want to go to, is in the center of the city, and has sold-out a season before. Also, our arena has a history of good attendance when the team is good. Granted, that's only been like 2 months out of the last ten years, but people were there in the playoff year. People haven't been there in Glendale in the Coyotes last two playoffs years.

[pollux]

http://slam.canoe.ca...sslam!%20hockey

Six U.S. NHL franchises are in trouble and ripe for relocation, Aubut told QMI Agency.

Coyotes, Islanders, Panthers, Blue Jackets(?), Predators(?), Stars(?).

Devils(?) would make it seven

Make it seven, Bettman!

[Still MIGHTY]

Wasn't the Stars' money issues more of a Tom Hicks thing than a "Hockey doesn't work in Dallas" thing?

And it's good to see the Blue Jackets/Arena are trying to solve their own issues before they get into a Coyotes/Glendale situation. Good for the Blue Jackets, good for Columbus, and good for the NHL. That's not to say that it may not devolve into that eventually if the Jackets continue to struggle, but it's good to see them trying to be proactive about one side of the Columbus issue.

It's actually really good for the NHL, because they don't need another team to add to a potential relocation list. There are plenty of teams that could move, but not as many potential locations.

If any of these situations get any worse than the current, there may be a few teams left without a dance partner and forced to fold/merge. And at this current point with the NHL, that just might be the public perception death nail.

[The Six]

Selanne is returning yet again.

[Still MIGHTY]

Selanne is returning yet again.

One-year, $4 million.

Words cannot describe my joy.

[The_Admiral]

Wasn't the Stars' money issues more of a Tom Hicks thing than a "Hockey doesn't work in Dallas" thing?

Well, yes, but it's not either/or. It's more a matter of the fact that hockey in Dallas was a house of cards built on buying up talent, and now that those years of free-spending to contention and championships are in the rear-view, "hockey" doesn't seem like such a resounding success after all. It's looking more and more like the same can be said for Denver, by the way.

Back to Columbus, I'm not buying this whole canard about how if the Blue Jackets go away, the arena will close, the Arena District will fail, Columbus will die, on and on. Columbus is two things: a government town and a university town. This is probably the most stable local economy a city can have. Also, they have a second virtually identical or superior arena right up the street! It's seriously, if not ON the same street, at least close to it. There will still be major events and concerts held in Columbus, and there will be bars near the arena. I don't see how using tax money to buy an arena so its tenants get free rent is a better use of tax money than things the casino's tax money should go toward. What is Ohio's tea party governor going to say? Probably "haha, we're not really against corporate welfare," which is exactly what this is.

[wildwing64]

Selanne is returning yet again.

One-year, $4 million.

Words cannot describe my joy.

Or mine, for that matter. I get to see him play in person for the first and possibly only time in just over three weeks

Also regarding the Stars, isn't there an agreement in place which prevents the franchise from being moved?

[IceCap]

I don't see how using tax money to buy an arena so its tenants get free rent is a better use of tax money than things the casino's tax money should go toward. What is Ohio's tea party governor going to say? Probably "haha, we're not really against corporate welfare," which is exactly what this is.

It's different when it's for sports.

[Sport]

Back to Columbus, I'm not buying this whole canard about how if the Blue Jackets go away, the arena will close, the Arena District will fail, Columbus will die, on and on. Columbus is two things: a government town and a university town. This is probably the most stable local economy a city can have. Also, they have a second virtually identical or superior arena right up the street! It's seriously, if not ON the same street, at least close to it. There will still be major events and concerts held in Columbus, and there will be bars near the arena. I don't see how using tax money to buy an arena so its tenants get free rent is a better use of tax money than things the casino's tax money should go toward. What is Ohio's tea party governor going to say? Probably "haha, we're not really against corporate welfare," which is exactly what this is.

- The two arenas are not as close as you think, not in distance or in quality. They're about ten minutes apart from each other. The distance is far enough that nobody who leaves an OSU basketball game walks to the Arena District so one does not benefit the other. Secondly, they're not identical and Value City Arena is not even in the same class as Nationwide Arena. Nationwide is one of the nicest arenas in North America. Value City is a pretty run of the mill building that hasn't aged well. It was dumb for them to build two competing arenas a couple years apart, but that's in the past and the reality they're dealing with.

- The Arena and Arena District are responsible for 350 million dollars in tax revenue since 2000. The Arena District struggled during the lockout even with concerts and other events. It would not surivive if the team left. Because of what it's brought and continues to bring to the city both financially, developmentally, and morale wise, it's more important to the city than the other arena "ON the same street". It's not a part of town that you want to mess around with if you can help it.

- It is a bailout, but the whole of the casino's tax money is not going to the arena. Other things will get their share. I look at it like they're correcting the problem that was created by letting Nationwide build the arena privately. The public financing of the arena was voted down in 1997, but if people knew then what it would look like today and what it do for an area of the city that was previously a literal hole in the ground then they probably would've voted in favor. (Or maybe not, it's central Ohio and trying to pass any taxes is almost impossible, but sometimes you have to tell people what's best for them.)

- Nobody's saying Columbus would die if the team left. Columbus the city would survive if the team left, but the perception of the city as anything more than home to the world's biggest community college would die. Civic officials understand that in order to grow and evolve and change national perceptions so they can atract businesses, corporate events, conventions, and more residents et al, they need things like major professional sports and world class arenas. There are intangible benefits that go along with having that arena.

- recap: The 2 arenas are not on par with each other, you really do need the team to stay to keep the arena district alive, the arena district is important to the economic health of downtown and to the national perception of the city, go Jackets.

/me attempting to defend a city I'm desperately trying to move out of.

[NJTank]

Selanne is returning yet again.

One-year, $4 million.

Words cannot describe my joy.

Do the Ducks go to Winnipeg this year?

[NEW.ERA]

Selanne is returning yet again.

One-year, $4 million.

Words cannot describe my joy.

Do the Ducks go to Winnipeg this year?

December 17th. Hockey Night in Canada.

[The_Admiral]

Honest question: to what extent has having the Blue Jackets changed the national/international perception of Columbus? Like Raleigh, it's now nominally a "major league town" by having a hockey team, but this hasn't "put them on the map" to me in ways that they wouldn't be without what they have already, which is Ohio State and being the state capital. Maybe some people in Finland are following Blue Jackets prospects/players and now Columbus awareness is at an all-time high in Espoo, but I think Columbus pretty much is what it is with regard to recognition, relevance, and economic strength with or without the Blue Jackets. I won't deny that Nationwide Arena is a state-of-the-art facility, but that doesn't mean it's not bad real estate. The NHL tried to go toe-to-toe with the Ohio State sports/government monolith and they failed inasmuch as the Blue Jackets can't seem to pay their rent without a taxpayer bailout. I don't think allowing them to fail would be as devastating as you make it out to be, especially since the opportunity cost of diverting tax revenue to corporate welfare can be pretty devastating itself.

[IceCap]

I think they went to Columbus to split the difference between Cleveland and Cincinnati fans. Which didn't quite turn out how they thought it would. Also, building an arena to compete with Ohio State's was stupid. In fact trying to go toe-to-toe with Ohio State was stupid. Had they accepted their status as second to the Buckeyes and gone in with the University on one new arena it could have worked out. As it is, the Jackets only seem viable when they sell out, which after years of disappointment only looks possible if they win.

I guess the Blue Jackets fall under the category of "good idea/bad execution."

Still MIGHTY brings up a good point though. There are at least six teams in trouble, and only two, maybe three, relocation possibilities. There's Quebec City, Seattle, and maybe Kansas City. So what happens if/when teams move into those locales? You still have franchises that are in trouble in their current location. Short of crossing the line of "hey I want more teams in Canada but this is ridiculous" and actually putting a team in Saskatoon retraction and/or merging teams could very well happen. This is the end result of the league falling for the southern housing bubble like everyone else, to be fair, but still. It's going to get ugly.

Actually, it'll be a little bit hilarious if the Coyotes aren't one of the teams relocated to Seattle, Quebec City, or Kansas City. Like Bettman just keeps throwing troubled but salvageable markets away to save the 'Yotes.

[The_Admiral]

This is the end result of the league falling for the southern housing bubble like everyone else

This is very true and it gets overlooked. I think we like to think of SPORTS as being something bigger than the everyday world, but when you get down to brass tacks, this really is just the southern* real estate bubble writ large.

*Yes, I know Columbus is not in the South (Cincinnati's debatable), but the same careless principles are at play.

[IceCap]

On one hand I'm like "serves them right" but on the other hand I like hockey.