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BASEBALL ALL-TIME DRAFT: Discussion Thread (PLEASE LOCK)

Dexter Morgan

By Dexter Morgan
in Sports In General

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pmoehrin

pmoehrin

Posted
Posted

I pick Magglio Ordonez discuss!

I like the pick. Then again, I was thrilled to grab Gary Sheffield yesterday. I thought he was the steal of the draft but no one else seemed to care. B)

If offense was all that mattered Gary Sheffield is a slam dunk HOFer. Top ten in OPS seven times during his career. Led the league one year. Didn't strike out all that much for a power hitter. Above average to good speed. Plays for 22 seasons. Has over 10,000 PA's.

That's about as good of an offense resume as you can get.

The two knocks I have against him is that he's a corner outfielder which takes away some of the specialness of his offensive prowess, and he could be described as being defensively inept. Had he worked at that aspect of his game he would have been a much more complete player, but it was pretty aparent to me that all he cared about was getting up to the dish and mashing. He came up as a shortstop and I think could have played there as well if he wanted to and would have been a much more special player had he done so, but to be a shortstop you need to have a glove and all this guy cared about was hitting.

Also if he doesen't play during the steroid era no way he gets to 500 home runs.

That being said, he should be playing for somebody, but I would describe him as a weak outfielder to have in the starting lineup when were talking about rosters of this caliber.

I think he would be very nice to have coming off the bench as a pinch hitter which is the role I'd want him in if he played on my team.

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pmoehrin

pmoehrin

Posted
Posted

Infa, Sheffield wasn't a bad pick, but it's about right as far as value.

Where he went is about right. I just didn't think it was a steal.

I also see Sheff as a very overated player and alot of what I was more critical of him then the pick itself.

He's a high end bench player and a low end starter. You can start drafting people like that at this stage.

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knnhrvy16

knnhrvy16

Posted
Posted

Well, my work shift just got changed on me. I now have to work the 6:30 AM - 3:00 PM shift, which means there's a good chance that I won't be avaliable when my turn to pick arrives. I'll keep an eye on the draft tonight, but I'll be sure to send some precautionary picks to somebody anyways just in case.

Jazzretirednumbers.jpg

The opinions I express are mine, and mine only. If I am to express them, it is not to say you or anyone else is wrong, and certainly not to say that I am right.

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infrared41

infrared41

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Infa, Sheffield wasn't a bad pick, but it's about right as far as value.

Where he went is about right. I just didn't think it was a steal.

I also see Sheff as a very overated player and alot of what I was more critical of him then the pick itself.

He's a high end bench player and a low end starter. You can start drafting people like that at this stage.

I know you've got a system and you're our resident "expert" and all, but I have to ask, how can a guy with Sheffield's numbers be "overrated" when he's picked in the 18th round of a draft; as a utility player? Call me crazy, but I have a hard time seeing Sheff, his 509 homeruns, .292 lifetime BA, and .393 lifetime OBP as overrated at this point in the draft. Granted, Sheffield is no Don McMahon but he's still a pretty solid ballplayer.

 

BB52Big.jpg

 

 

 

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pmoehrin

pmoehrin

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Posted

Infa, Sheffield wasn't a bad pick, but it's about right as far as value.

Where he went is about right. I just didn't think it was a steal.

I also see Sheff as a very overated player and alot of what I was more critical of him then the pick itself.

He's a high end bench player and a low end starter. You can start drafting people like that at this stage.

I know you've got a system and you're our resident "expert" and all, but I have to ask, how can a guy with Sheffield's numbers be "overrated" when he's picked in the 18th round of a draft; as a utility player? Call me crazy, but I have a hard time seeing Sheff, his 509 homeruns, .292 lifetime BA, and .393 lifetime OBP as overrated at this point in the draft. Granted, Sheffield is no Don McMahon but he's still a pretty solid ballplayer.

I just wanted to finish out my bullpen before going to bench guys. That was all that was. There's alot better guys then Don McMahon on the board that are going to stay around long enough for me to pick them. Also you try to find someone at this stage of the draft with 15+ years of bullpen work with nearly all of them coming with ERA right at or in some cases far below 3. I'm done with my bullpen and I have five guys who were very good to dominating and all had long careers. No bench players yet, but I have the guys I want in mind.

I'll say again with the career numbers though, look at the era. It is customed designed for a guy like Gary Sheffield to put up monster numbers. When your hitting 36 home runs and your not even top ten in the league, that should say something about what's going on. And I didn't say he was overated at this point in the draft. I'm speaking of him as a player and as a player I see him as a very one dimensional ballplayer who's carrer offensive numbers were almost as much of a product of his time as they were himself.

I used the same standard with every player I looked at which was to measure the player against his counterparts. I look at someone like Sheffield and I look at someone like Sherry Magee, and I feel Sherry Magee is the better player based on that standard. What a player's career numbers are to me is secondary. What I look for is where they are in relation to other people playing their position in terms of things like batting average, defensive ability, OPS, etc.

This also took a long time to do as well (about six months), and I've actually had this done months before the draft even started just for my own ammusment. When I said things like this is who I have in my top 10 for this position or top 20 for this. Those rankings go on and on. 386th overall first baseman? Joe Lis. 94th overall second baseman? Rennie Stennett. 664 for outfield? Michael Tucker. 239 for pitchers? John Burkett.

The only position I didn't do for was relief pitching which I've been struggling with for about a year now to rank properly. I may have found a solution unfortunately its going to have to wait until after the draft.

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pmoehrin

pmoehrin

Posted
Posted

My lineup. Thanks to pmoehrin for letting me use his template.

lineupb.png

Your welcome but its not my template.

Credit deserves to go to knnhrvy16.

Also my selection of Allen leaves me with an interesting problem. Allen would be in the HOF if offense was all that mattered. Top ten in OPS 10 times during his career, and led the league 4 times. Only problem is on defensive he's flat out terrible. I'm thinking about benching Nellie Fox moving Collins back over to 2B (wouldn't be losing a ton defensiely) and moving Allen in as the DH.

This is how the lineup looks with Fox.

DH Eddie Collins

LF Ed Delahanty

1B Ernie Banks

3B Eddie Mathews

RF Al Simmons

C Gabby Hartnett

SS Robin Yount

CF Richie Ashburn

2B Nellie Fox

With Allen.

2B Eddie Collins

LF Ed Delahanty

3B Eddie Mathews

DH Dick Allen

1B Ernie Banks

RF Al Simmons

C Gabby Hartnett

SS Robin Yount

CF Richie Ashburn

The more I'm thiking about it the more I'm liking option B. I think Eddie Collins at 2B with Dick Allen's bat is alot more valuable then Nellie Fox which is essentially what I'm doing. Fox is the better ballplayer hands down but if we look at the two in a vaccum Allen is by far the better offensive player and by essentially replacing him defensively with Eddie Collins I'm also removing Allen's biggest weakenss.

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pmoehrin

pmoehrin

Posted
Posted

Nice pick, I was debating picking Allen for a while.

My starting eight are all in the HOF, and the one guy in the starting lineup who isn't would be if hitting was all that mattered and for him it does. I have zero need to play Dick Allen in the field.

Also where would you put him if you drafted him? The only spot I see for him is DH which would completely nullify your pick (I also just nullifed mine of Nellie Fox) of Harold Baines, or just have him come off the bench, but I think Allen is the far better offensive player then Baines. Baines played longer (about 3800 more PA's) but we're talking about one player who was top ten in OPS ten times versus three times.

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