Say it ain't so, Joe

[The_Admiral]

HEY GUYS I'M WORKING ON A TOP-SECRET GOVERNMENT PROGRAM

[RevNet]

^What admiral's refering to:

Graham Spanier, former Penn State president, gets job with federal government

In yet another shocking development in the Penn State story, ousted president Graham Spanier will soon begin working with the federal government on projects related to national security, The Patriot-News of Harrisburg, Pa., first reported.

In an email written to the paper, Spanier said: "For the next several months, as I transition to my post-presidential plans, I will be working on a special project for the U.S. government relating (to) national security. This builds on my prior positions working with federal agencies to foster improved cooperation between our nation's national security agencies and other entities."

The harshest critics would argue that Spanier was part of a miserable failure to keep young boys safe right on the Penn State campus.

He was fired on Nov. 9 amid the charges and arrest of convicted serial pedophile, Jerry Sandusky.

http://aol.sportingn...al-security-fre

[NJTank]

^What admiral's refering to:

Graham Spanier, former Penn State president, gets job with federal government

In yet another shocking development in the Penn State story, ousted president Graham Spanier will soon begin working with the federal government on projects related to national security, The Patriot-News of Harrisburg, Pa., first reported.

In an email written to the paper, Spanier said: "For the next several months, as I transition to my post-presidential plans, I will be working on a special project for the U.S. government relating (to) national security. This builds on my prior positions working with federal agencies to foster improved cooperation between our nation's national security agencies and other entities."

The harshest critics would argue that Spanier was part of a miserable failure to keep young boys safe right on the Penn State campus.

He was fired on Nov. 9 amid the charges and arrest of convicted serial pedophile, Jerry Sandusky.

http://aol.sportingn...al-security-fre

And you wonder why I distrust the government, I would not give him a job at McDonalds.

[Viola73]

I like how he starts off with I haven't followed the scandal much, then proceeds to go into tedious detail about the Freeh Report.

He really comes off as someone trying to present themselves as an expert layman. I don't know much about the issue, but this is why I'm right.

Hmmm...that sounds ALOT like the Penn Haters around here.

[Viola73]

Lawyer says evidence of Paterno coverup lacking.

First, with respect to the 1998 incident, the Freeh Report says that several authorities promptly investigated and reviewed the matter, including the Department of Public Welfare, the University Police Department, the State College police, and the local district attorney?s office. Freeh Report at 42-47. A ?counselor? named John Seasock issued a report that found ?no indication of child abuse.? Freeh Report at 42-46. Mr. Seasock interviewed the alleged victim and determined that ?there seems to be no incident which could be termed as sexual abuse, nor did there appear to be any sequential pattern of logic and behavior which is usually consistent with adults who have difficulty with sexual abuse of children.? Freeh Report at 44 (quoting Mr. Seasock?s 1998 evaluation of the alleged victim). The Freeh Report adds that Mr. Seasock ?couldn?t find any indication of child abuse.? Freeh Report at 45.

The police investigated and ?did not question Sandusky at this time,? and the Freeh Report says that ?the local District Attorney declined to prosecute Sandusky for his actions.? Freeh Report at 45-46. A ?senior administrator? explained that ?the case against Sandusky was ?severely hampered? by Seasock?s report.? Freeh Report at 46. The University Police also investigatedthe matter and unlike the local police, they interviewed Sandusky. Sandusky claimed ?nothing happened? (Freeh Report at 46) and the University Police concluded that ?no sexual assault occurred.? Freeh Report at 47.

The only evidence of Mr. Paterno?s involvement is a passing reference in an email from Curley to Spanier and Schultz that says that Curley ?touched base with the coach. Keep us posted.? Freeh Report at 20, 48. A second email from Curley to Schultz that says ?Coach is anxious to know where it stands.? Freeh Report at 20, 48. There is no other information about Mr. Paterno?s involvement in the incident. In fact, the Freeh Report does not even establish that the references to ?Coach? refer to Joe Paterno. The most it can and does say is that ?[t]he reference to Coach is believed to be Paterno.? Freeh Report at 49. The Freeh Report cites no evidence to support this assertion, but even if ?Coach? refers to Coach Paterno, what do these emails prove? The answer is: nothing. At most, these emails suggest that Mr. Paterno was concerned and wanted to know whether Sandusky was guilty of any wrongdoing.

The Freeh Report concludes that the ?record? is ?not clear as to how the conclusion of the Sandusky investigation was conveyed to Paterno.? Freeh Report at 51. The Report includes many statements that assert things like ?nothing in the record indicates that Joe Paterno spoke with Sandusky.? See, e.g., Freeh Report at 51. The absence of evidence or information proves only that Mr. Freeh did not find evidence. It does not affirmatively prove anything about Mr. Paterno.

Much of the case against Mr. Paterno seems to rely on (1) the theory that the Athletic Director, Curley, was JoePa?s ?errand boy?; and (2) an email dated February 27, 2001 from Curley to Schultz and Spanier which says that Curley gave the matter ?more thought? after ?talking it over with Joe? and was ?uncomfortable with what we agreed were the next steps.? Freeh Report at 74-75. But the ?errand boy? evidence amounts to a reference by an unidentified ?senior Penn State official? (page 75), and what does it prove anyway? That one person viewed Curley as Paterno?s ?errand boy??

There is no evidence that Curley-as-errand-boy covered up because Joe Paterno told him to do so. And the February 27 email at most suggests that Mr. Paterno spoke with Curley. It does not say what Curley and Paterno discussed, and without any explanation from either Curley or Paterno, it is absurd to read into this that Mr. Paterno was the puppet master behind a coverup orchestrated by Curley, Spanier, and Schultz.

[The_Admiral]

Saintsfan wants his map back.

[pmoehrin]

^What admiral's refering to:

Graham Spanier, former Penn State president, gets job with federal government

In yet another shocking development in the Penn State story, ousted president Graham Spanier will soon begin working with the federal government on projects related to national security, The Patriot-News of Harrisburg, Pa., first reported.

In an email written to the paper, Spanier said: "For the next several months, as I transition to my post-presidential plans, I will be working on a special project for the U.S. government relating (to) national security. This builds on my prior positions working with federal agencies to foster improved cooperation between our nation's national security agencies and other entities."

The harshest critics would argue that Spanier was part of a miserable failure to keep young boys safe right on the Penn State campus.

He was fired on Nov. 9 amid the charges and arrest of convicted serial pedophile, Jerry Sandusky.

http://aol.sportingn...al-security-fre

And you wonder why I distrust the government, I would not give him a job at McDonalds.

I would give him a job at McDonald's just because of how funny it would be.

But whoever gave him that job is an ahole. I don't care what type of conditionals he has or how qualified he may be. I'm sure there's other people out there that could do it.

He left his last job in disgrace and had to drop his lawsuit against the school for his dismissal after his lawyer told him present evidence could be presented that may make him criminally liable in the Sandusky case. That's really all I need to hear in terms of how much respect this guy should be given.

[BBTV]

^What admiral's refering to:

Graham Spanier, former Penn State president, gets job with federal government

In yet another shocking development in the Penn State story, ousted president Graham Spanier will soon begin working with the federal government on projects related to national security, The Patriot-News of Harrisburg, Pa., first reported.

In an email written to the paper, Spanier said: "For the next several months, as I transition to my post-presidential plans, I will be working on a special project for the U.S. government relating (to) national security. This builds on my prior positions working with federal agencies to foster improved cooperation between our nation's national security agencies and other entities."

The harshest critics would argue that Spanier was part of a miserable failure to keep young boys safe right on the Penn State campus.

He was fired on Nov. 9 amid the charges and arrest of convicted serial pedophile, Jerry Sandusky.

http://aol.sportingn...al-security-fre

And you wonder why I distrust the government, I would not give him a job at McDonalds.

I would give him a job at McDonald's just because of how funny it would be.

But whoever gave him that job is an ahole. I don't care what type of conditionals he has or how qualified he may be. I'm sure there's other people out there that could do it.

He left his last job in disgrace and had to drop his lawsuit against the school for his dismissal after his lawyer told him present evidence could be presented that may make him criminally liable in the Sandusky case. That's really all I need to hear in terms of how much respect this guy should be given.

How would him dropping his lawsuit have any bearing on whether he would be criminally liable? Not sure that the two are mutually exclusive.

[pmoehrin]

^What admiral's refering to:

Graham Spanier, former Penn State president, gets job with federal government

In yet another shocking development in the Penn State story, ousted president Graham Spanier will soon begin working with the federal government on projects related to national security, The Patriot-News of Harrisburg, Pa., first reported.

In an email written to the paper, Spanier said: "For the next several months, as I transition to my post-presidential plans, I will be working on a special project for the U.S. government relating (to) national security. This builds on my prior positions working with federal agencies to foster improved cooperation between our nation's national security agencies and other entities."

The harshest critics would argue that Spanier was part of a miserable failure to keep young boys safe right on the Penn State campus.

He was fired on Nov. 9 amid the charges and arrest of convicted serial pedophile, Jerry Sandusky.

http://aol.sportingn...al-security-fre

And you wonder why I distrust the government, I would not give him a job at McDonalds.

I would give him a job at McDonald's just because of how funny it would be.

But whoever gave him that job is an ahole. I don't care what type of conditionals he has or how qualified he may be. I'm sure there's other people out there that could do it.

He left his last job in disgrace and had to drop his lawsuit against the school for his dismissal after his lawyer told him present evidence could be presented that may make him criminally liable in the Sandusky case. That's really all I need to hear in terms of how much respect this guy should be given.

How would him dropping his lawsuit have any bearing on whether he would be criminally liable? Not sure that the two are mutually exclusive.

http://www.huffingto..._n_1683771.html

Well this is the article I was talking about which I now realize I misread so please disregard the crossed out part. No need to make up stuff I feel when there's already plenty to go on.

I'm not sure if he knew about what Sandusky was doing, but I have a hard time believing he was Mr. Magoo as it came to this. The whole thing just stinks in terms of what people knew or didn't know.

[IceCap]

I honestly think you have misinterpreted my intent with the posts in question (as well as at whom they were aimed) and that's my fault for not communicating my thoughts more clearly. Finally, with regard to whether or not I "rock", I can assure you that I pretty much don't.

My apologies for misunderstanding the points you were trying to get at.

My primary point, essentially, boils down to what I think may be an unpopular opinion in regards to human nature. We all have negative emotions, we all get angry. I believe a little excess anger is good for the soul. We all need to "vent." So why not re-direct that negativity towards people who deserve it?

Now I'm not saying a mob needs to burn down Penn State, or that the Paterno family and their supporters need to be threatened or harmed. People (ie some of those affiliated with Penn State) who claim that's what the "masses" want are like those people who claim that those of us who want to see the Phoenix Coyotes move also want to see all 27 American NHL teams relocate to Canada. They're either incapable or unable to see what's really being discussed because they're emotionally or ideologically tied up with what's being attacked. They don't see that it's being attacked for a reason.

All I'm saying is that if any issue should get people unapologetically angry it's an issue like this. As for using this as sport? I don't think so. People just like seeing those who have transgressed, especially in a case of this magnitude, pay the price for that transgression. Take the Paterno family for example. They're going to continue to make fools of themselves in a public manner. People are already angry at them for defending a man who enabled rape, but that the family is going to continue to do so in what's likely to be akin to a circus is just going to cause that anger to turn to satisfaction at the notion that they're digger their hole deeper. No one can stop the Paternos from doing what they're doing. So why is it wrong to take a sense of pleasure from it? Why is it wrong to gawk at people who give us something to gawk at?

Finally I totally get where Vet is coming from when he says reasonable Penn State alumni and students getting defensive about the bad press their school is getting. That being said, I think those students and alumni really just need to take their medicine and law low. Their school was involved in a cover-up of disgusting, sickening crimes, and the cover-up reached the highest levels of the school's administration. Going out of your way to defend the positive aspects of Penn State as a school at this point will only get people angry at you. And as I alluded to earlier, people aren't necessarily wrong for feeling and acting that way. People know that the entire school shouldn't be blamed because of what happened. People don't think less of your degrees because of what happened. People know the "student experience" hasn't been hampered because of what happened. They're just justifiably angry at the school for allowing what happened to happen. Getting defensive about the school won't help. Just let the situation run its course, let people get angry. That anger will subside in time.

That's kind of all I wanted to say on the subject.

[illwauk]

This is why I hate people.

[The_Admiral]

The amazing proliferation of state universities in America was supposed to make critical thinking and civilization available to all people, not just the wealthy elite. Yet college football brings out some of the most egregious groupthink and boorishness we've ever seen.

[Sport]

This is why I hate people.

The amazing proliferation of state universities in America was supposed to make critical thinking and civilization available to all people, not just the wealthy elite. Yet college football brings out some of the most egregious groupthink and boorishness we've ever seen.

Times like these I wish facebook had a dislike button as well.

I'm beginning to rethink going to that September 1st game at Penn State. If Penn State students who give their opinions against Joe Paterno to national media outlets have to conceal their identity to protect their safety, how are (the first) visiting fans going to be treated?

[pmoehrin]

I'm beginning to rethink going to that September 1st game at Penn State. If Penn State students who give their opinions against Joe Paterno to national media outlets have to conceal their identity to protect their safety, how are (the first) visiting fans going to be treated?

Well that's part of the reason why I don't like going to football games in general. People are freakin' animals at these games.

I don't know what the atmosphere is going to be like at Penn State but I would imagine its definitely going to have an us vs the world mentality to it at every game this year.

Personally I wouldn't be anymore worried then usual, because I'm sure they will have plenty of cops out just to make nobody tries anything.

[OnWis97]

I'm beginning to rethink going to that September 1st game at Penn State. If Penn State students who give their opinions against Joe Paterno to national media outlets have to conceal their identity to protect their safety, how are (the first) visiting fans going to be treated?

Well that's part of the reason why I don't like going to football games in general. People are freakin' animals at these games.

I don't know what the atmosphere is going to be like at Penn State but I would imagine its definitely going to have an us vs the world mentality to it at every game this year.

Personally I wouldn't be anymore worried then usual, because I'm sure they will have plenty of cops out just to make nobody tries anything.

On one hand, Ohio is probably not a likely school to draw too much of their ire. On the other, there probably won't be too many of you and your green will stick out like a sore thumb. I would just advise not saying much...I don't think their beef is going to be with "vising fan from X school", but anyone from X school that smarts off about "Ped State" will probably do so at their own risk.

As for that facebook page, I am starting to inch day by day toward "it's not just the loud tiny minority; it's a hell of a lot of them." I know we have a reasonable PSU alum on this thread, but he was not a big PSU football fan. It's not the alums. It's the PSU football fans (students, alums, rubes alike). And they are depressing me.

[pmoehrin]

As for that facebook page, I am starting to inch day by day toward "it's not just the loud tiny minority; it's a hell of a lot of them." I know we have a reasonable PSU alum on this thread, but he was not a big PSU football fan. It's not the alums. It's the PSU football fans (students, alums, rubes alike). And they are depressing me.

I was at that when the story broke that JoePa was losing his job over this.

The irony is people like that are providing the biggest argument to what Freeh report said which was the root cause of this was an overly obsessed football culture. Well who else besides a group of overly obsessed football fans would take the NCAA's ruling or the media coverage surrounding the story that personally?

[infrared41]

This is why I hate people.

There's something completely -ed up about football. Anyone still disagree with that statement?

[bosrs1]

This is why I hate people.

There's something completely -ed up about football. Anyone still disagree with that statement?

Not football, just college football at select schools where people have lost touch with reality like cult members. Penn State would qualify as one of these locations based on the continuing amounts of crap that keeps getting spit out by their fans.

[Billy B]

This is why I hate people.

There's something completely -ed up about football. Anyone still disagree with that statement?

Not football, just college football at select schools where people have lost touch with reality like cult members. Penn State would qualify as one of these locations based on the continuing amounts of crap that keeps getting spit out by their fans.

Most of the schools with huge football fanbases are also filled with fans that have never stepped on that callous outside of Saturdays in the fall. I've found many of these fans are the craziest and most out of touch with the fact that they're watching a game played by 20 year olds.

[infrared41]

This is why I hate people.

There's something completely -ed up about football. Anyone still disagree with that statement?

Not football, just college football at select schools where people have lost touch with reality like cult members. Penn State would qualify as one of these locations based on the continuing amounts of crap that keeps getting spit out by their fans.

Yeah, about that...

Seriously though, I disagree. I think it's all football. Cover high school football for a year or two and you'll agree. Players are taught from day one that life begins and ends with their coach. It's weird. I'm not saying all players buy into it, but enough of them do.

There's something completely -ed up about football. That doesn't mean it's not entertaining. That doesn't mean it's not fun to watch. All I'm saying is that football is a game you want to view from a distance.