1997 Steelers' Nike Prototypes

[infrared41]

If they must have sleeve stripes I think this sorta works

Echoing what OldSchoolVikings said; so does this.

Considering the fact that the 70's Steelers defense was way better than all but a handful of current defenses, you'll never convince me that having sleeves does anything to adversely affect performance.

It's mind-boggling that so many people on a sports uniform board would rather sacrifice aesthetic quality than simply endorse bringing back longer sleeves to solve the stripe problem. Does anyone really think this looks better than longer sleeves?

[tBBP]

That's my argument as well...long sleeves (that actually covered pads) didn't seem to stop all those guys in the '70s, never seemed to mess up Johnny Unitas' or Fran Tarkenton's throwing motions, never seemed to restrict Deacon Jones from slapping whatever head was in arms' reach...I'm not all that convinced that these new cuts offer any kind of performance advantage beyond fabric quality keeping players cooler/drier/what-have-you.

But...it is what it is now, I suppose.

[powersurge]

If they must have sleeve stripes I think this sorta works

Echoing what OldSchoolVikings said; so does this.

Considering the fact that the 70's Steelers defense was way better than all but a handful of current defenses, you'll never convince me that having sleeves does anything to adversely affect performance.

It's mind-boggling that so many people on a sports uniform board would rather sacrifice aesthetic quality than simply endorse bringing back longer sleeves to solve the stripe problem. Does anyone really think this looks better than longer sleeves?

Well couldn't this be corrected by players wearing the long sleeve athletic undergarments that are being worn now by some college teams like Oregon? I think if the design trend in football uniforms are already being dominated by the tighter fit and non sleeve jersey world then why fight the inevitable? Get rid of sleeves completely across the board and have the players wear the matching undergarments to complete the look. I know it worked quite nicely with Oregon in the opening kickoff game against LSU, maybe it could work in the NFL. *shrugs shoulders*

I agree with everyone that these newer jersey cuts are killing the classic jersey designs but either they fix it or evolve and change the design. I mean c'mon, I love history and tradition and all but if it can't be done then it can't be done....adjust the design and make it work with the new jerseys and the latest technology.

[Lights Out]

I think the long sleeves are just as ugly as the Giants' total lack of sleeves.

[tBBP]

I guess it really depends on how its manufactured. All said, powersurge's point is probably the best that can be said--we all know evolution is inevitable, so at some point either the Steelers and Lions (and to an extent, the Browns)--or Nike--figure out how to make what they have fit onto what exists in the uniform world now, probably best served by paring down the stripe sizes--or all can bite the bullet and come up with a new design that works with what's out there now. Sure it'd piss some of us off, but like he said, evolution is inevitable...may as well deal with it if it comes to that.

[jr79]

I'd be all for the stripes moving to a standardised compression shirt worn by all the players under the jersey, or some new style that incorporates the compression material into proper sleeves so players will wear them.

Neither could look worse than the ridiculously cut-off sleeves being worn at the moment.

[infrared41]

I think the long sleeves are just as ugly as the Giants' total lack of sleeves.

This from the guy who thinks TATC jerseys were the best thing to ever happen to baseball.

[oldschoolvikings]

Well couldn't this be corrected by players wearing the long sleeve athletic undergarments that are being worn now by some college teams like Oregon? I think if the design trend in football uniforms are already being dominated by the tighter fit and non sleeve jersey world then why fight the inevitable? Get rid of sleeves completely across the board and have the players wear the matching undergarments to complete the look. I know it worked quite nicely with Oregon in the opening kickoff game against LSU, maybe it could work in the NFL. *shrugs shoulders*

But, what the hell's the point of that? Players won't wear sleeves on their jersey's but will on their undershirts? Huh? What's the difference?

Plus, the fans wanna wear a jersey that somewhat appears to be the same one the team's wearing. Do they have to buy two seperate pieces?

I guess my point is this; If you're gonna tell the players they're required to wear an undershirt with sleeves, why not just tell them they're required to wear a jersey with sleeves? Why complicate it?

[powersurge]

Well couldn't this be corrected by players wearing the long sleeve athletic undergarments that are being worn now by some college teams like Oregon? I think if the design trend in football uniforms are already being dominated by the tighter fit and non sleeve jersey world then why fight the inevitable? Get rid of sleeves completely across the board and have the players wear the matching undergarments to complete the look. I know it worked quite nicely with Oregon in the opening kickoff game against LSU, maybe it could work in the NFL. *shrugs shoulders*

But, what the hell's the point of that? Players won't wear sleeves on their jersey's but will on their undershirts? Huh? What's the difference?

Plus, the fans wanna wear a jersey that somewhat appears to be the same one the team's wearing. Do they have to buy two seperate pieces?

I guess my point is this; If you're gonna tell the players they're required to wear an undershirt with sleeves, why not just tell them they're required to wear a jersey with sleeves? Why complicate it?

Because its a lot harder to grab someone's tight fitting athletic under garment and hold them during a play then their looser jersey sleeve....thats why. Why else do you think the lineman are doing away with sleeves????

[oldschoolvikings]

Well couldn't this be corrected by players wearing the long sleeve athletic undergarments that are being worn now by some college teams like Oregon? I think if the design trend in football uniforms are already being dominated by the tighter fit and non sleeve jersey world then why fight the inevitable? Get rid of sleeves completely across the board and have the players wear the matching undergarments to complete the look. I know it worked quite nicely with Oregon in the opening kickoff game against LSU, maybe it could work in the NFL. *shrugs shoulders*

But, what the hell's the point of that? Players won't wear sleeves on their jersey's but will on their undershirts? Huh? What's the difference?

Plus, the fans wanna wear a jersey that somewhat appears to be the same one the team's wearing. Do they have to buy two seperate pieces?

I guess my point is this; If you're gonna tell the players they're required to wear an undershirt with sleeves, why not just tell them they're required to wear a jersey with sleeves? Why complicate it?

Because its a lot harder to grab someone's tight fitting athletic under garment and hold them during a play then their looser jersey sleeve....thats why. Why else do you think the lineman are doing away with sleeves????

Well, since you asked, I'll tell you. I think they're "doing away with sleeves" because they think it looks tougher, cooler, badder... whatever. I think, at first, linemen went to tighter jerseys to cut down on holding (how effective that is might be debatable), but explain to me why cornerbacks and receivers need to show off their armpits? I think its a 90% visual decision on the part of the players, and the 10% that has to do with performance may very well be all in their heads.

Besides, there's no reason the tighter materials used in the undergarment can't be incorporated into the actual jersey. On top of that, if you standardize it, there's no advantage either way... everybody would be in the same boat.

[DolphinManatee]

If they must have sleeve stripes I think this sorta works

Echoing what OldSchoolVikings said; so does this.

Considering the fact that the 70's Steelers defense was way better than all but a handful of current defenses, you'll never convince me that having sleeves does anything to adversely affect performance.

It's mind-boggling that so many people on a sports uniform board would rather sacrifice aesthetic quality than simply endorse bringing back longer sleeves to solve the stripe problem. Does anyone really think this looks better than longer sleeves?

Well couldn't this be corrected by players wearing the long sleeve athletic undergarments that are being worn now by some college teams like Oregon? I think if the design trend in football uniforms are already being dominated by the tighter fit and non sleeve jersey world then why fight the inevitable? Get rid of sleeves completely across the board and have the players wear the matching undergarments to complete the look. I know it worked quite nicely with Oregon in the opening kickoff game against LSU, maybe it could work in the NFL. *shrugs shoulders*

I agree with everyone that these newer jersey cuts are killing the classic jersey designs but either they fix it or evolve and change the design. I mean c'mon, I love history and tradition and all but if it can't be done then it can't be done....adjust the design and make it work with the new jerseys and the latest technology.

Something like this?

[powersurge]

Well couldn't this be corrected by players wearing the long sleeve athletic undergarments that are being worn now by some college teams like Oregon? I think if the design trend in football uniforms are already being dominated by the tighter fit and non sleeve jersey world then why fight the inevitable? Get rid of sleeves completely across the board and have the players wear the matching undergarments to complete the look. I know it worked quite nicely with Oregon in the opening kickoff game against LSU, maybe it could work in the NFL. *shrugs shoulders*

But, what the hell's the point of that? Players won't wear sleeves on their jersey's but will on their undershirts? Huh? What's the difference?

Plus, the fans wanna wear a jersey that somewhat appears to be the same one the team's wearing. Do they have to buy two seperate pieces?

I guess my point is this; If you're gonna tell the players they're required to wear an undershirt with sleeves, why not just tell them they're required to wear a jersey with sleeves? Why complicate it?

Because its a lot harder to grab someone's tight fitting athletic under garment and hold them during a play then their looser jersey sleeve....thats why. Why else do you think the lineman are doing away with sleeves????

Well, since you asked, I'll tell you. I think they're "doing away with sleeves" because they think it looks tougher, cooler, badder... whatever. I think, at first, linemen went to tighter jerseys to cut down on holding (how effective that is might be debatable), but explain to me why cornerbacks and receivers need to show off their armpits? I think its a 90% visual decision on the part of the players, and the 10% that has to do with performance may very well be all in their heads.

Besides, there's no reason the tighter materials used in the undergarment can't be incorporated into the actual jersey. On top of that, if you standardize it, there's no advantage either way... everybody would be in the same boat.

They are certainly NOT doing away with sleeves solely because it looks "tougher, cooler, badder... whatever". The lineman are certainly doing away with them for many performance reasons including minimizing the ability to grab the jersey to hold the player. Don't you think that is the same reason a WR would do the same? Are you really convinced that all players are really that convinced about being "tougher, cooler, badder... whatever"???? I don't.

If they must have sleeve stripes I think this sorta works

Echoing what OldSchoolVikings said; so does this.

Considering the fact that the 70's Steelers defense was way better than all but a handful of current defenses, you'll never convince me that having sleeves does anything to adversely affect performance.

It's mind-boggling that so many people on a sports uniform board would rather sacrifice aesthetic quality than simply endorse bringing back longer sleeves to solve the stripe problem. Does anyone really think this looks better than longer sleeves?

Well couldn't this be corrected by players wearing the long sleeve athletic undergarments that are being worn now by some college teams like Oregon? I think if the design trend in football uniforms are already being dominated by the tighter fit and non sleeve jersey world then why fight the inevitable? Get rid of sleeves completely across the board and have the players wear the matching undergarments to complete the look. I know it worked quite nicely with Oregon in the opening kickoff game against LSU, maybe it could work in the NFL. *shrugs shoulders*

I agree with everyone that these newer jersey cuts are killing the classic jersey designs but either they fix it or evolve and change the design. I mean c'mon, I love history and tradition and all but if it can't be done then it can't be done....adjust the design and make it work with the new jerseys and the latest technology.

Something like this?

YES!!!! that is what the future holds.

[Bmac]

Ignoring all opinions on how sleeves look, I say this from a player's perspective:

Have you ever played with sleeves and without sleeves? Like anything else, it comes down to personal preference. But for me, as a player, I prefer less sleeve. Throwing and catching the ball, your arms are moving around, and longer sleeves can get in the way (not literally in the way of the ball, just comfort-wise). Playing on the line, opponents grab sleeves if they are present. Wear a compression fit shirt underneath, problems solved. No movement of the material, less ability to be grabbed, just overall easier movement.

My point is, the sleeve debate is really more about player comfortability than asthetics.

[Billy B]

I also think you're overestimating the "cool" factor when talking about the sleeves. When I was a freshman and sophomore in high school, we wore the varsity jerseys from at least ten years ago that had long sleeves. Then on varsity I wore jerseys from two different companies, both with considerably shorter sleeves. To give a feel for how short the sleeves were, we wore jerseys that looked just like the Steelers and you could see all the stripes but the jersey just covered the shoulder pads (almost exactly like the Polamalou picture above. The jerseys with the short sleeves were much more comfortable than the long sleeves. Much easier to move the arms and they were of course much harder for the defender to get hold of your jersey. Pretty much the same review for me as Bmac's post above mine.

[andrewharrington]

Well couldn't this be corrected by players wearing the long sleeve athletic undergarments that are being worn now by some college teams like Oregon? I think if the design trend in football uniforms are already being dominated by the tighter fit and non sleeve jersey world then why fight the inevitable? Get rid of sleeves completely across the board and have the players wear the matching undergarments to complete the look. I know it worked quite nicely with Oregon in the opening kickoff game against LSU, maybe it could work in the NFL. *shrugs shoulders*

But, what the hell's the point of that? Players won't wear sleeves on their jersey's but will on their undershirts? Huh? What's the difference?

Plus, the fans wanna wear a jersey that somewhat appears to be the same one the team's wearing. Do they have to buy two seperate pieces?

I guess my point is this; If you're gonna tell the players they're required to wear an undershirt with sleeves, why not just tell them they're required to wear a jersey with sleeves? Why complicate it?

Because its a lot harder to grab someone's tight fitting athletic under garment and hold them during a play then their looser jersey sleeve....thats why. Why else do you think the lineman are doing away with sleeves????

Well, since you asked, I'll tell you. I think they're "doing away with sleeves" because they think it looks tougher, cooler, badder... whatever. I think, at first, linemen went to tighter jerseys to cut down on holding (how effective that is might be debatable), but explain to me why cornerbacks and receivers need to show off their armpits? I think its a 90% visual decision on the part of the players, and the 10% that has to do with performance may very well be all in their heads.

Besides, there's no reason the tighter materials used in the undergarment can't be incorporated into the actual jersey. On top of that, if you standardize it, there's no advantage either way... everybody would be in the same boat.

Bingo. Continue to use the more durable fabrics for the body and shoulders of the jersey, and then make the sleeves elbow-length, but use the stretchy compression material of the undershirts sot hat the sleeves hug the the arm. Players can show off their guns, eliminate grabbing points for opposing players, and save the aesthetic quality of the jersey.

If you put the stripes on an undershirt, you're not going to be able to get many players to wear them no matter how you slice it.

[Lights Out]

I think the long sleeves are just as ugly as the Giants' total lack of sleeves.

This from the guy who thinks TATC jerseys were the best thing to ever happen to baseball.

Not all of them, just the Diamondbacks' TATC. (Seriously, a full-time set based on that would be badass.) But I digress.

[oldschoolvikings]

OK, I have a simple question about the lack of sleeves and its effect on holding. I'm really not trying to be a jackass here... its a real question.

Since the D-linemen began going with the super-tight, sleeveless jersey, has there been a noticeable drop in the amount of holding calls? Because if that's what the no-sleeve jersey does, holding calls should have dropped significantly. As a matter of fact, to go along with that, in the 80's IIRC the rules on what actually constitutes holding were also changed... making it possible for O-linemen to use their hands in different ways.

So, add it up. First, the rules were changed, so that less actions are actually illegal, then the D-Line starts wearing the amazing anti-holding sleeveless jersey, making it harder for the O-line to grab. Shouldn't, then, the in-game holding call be nearly non-existant?

Like I say, I don't know for sure, but it seems to me the average game has pretty much the same amount of holding calls now as it ever has. And if that's true, then obviously those sleeveless jerseys are NOT doing their job. (Unless their job is mostly to look badass.)

[Sec19Row53]

OK, I have a simple question about the lack of sleeves and its effect on holding. I'm really not trying to be a jackass here... its a real question.

Since the D-linemen began going with the super-tight, sleeveless jersey, has there been a noticeable drop in the amount of holding calls? Because if that's what the no-sleeve jersey does, holding calls should have dropped significantly. As a matter of fact, to go along with that, in the 80's IIRC the rules on what actually constitutes holding were also changed... making it possible for O-linemen to use their hands in different ways.

So, add it up. First, the rules were changed, so that less actions are actually illegal, then the D-Line starts wearing the amazing anti-holding sleeveless jersey, making it harder for the O-line to grab. Shouldn't, then, the in-game holding call be nearly non-existant?

Like I say, I don't know for sure, but it seems to me the average game has pretty much the same amount of holding calls now as it ever has. And if that's true, then obviously those sleeveless jerseys are NOT doing their job. (Unless their job is mostly to look badass.)

Except that there's holding that's called, and "holding" that isn't called. Loose material allows an O-lineman to give a quick tug and then let go. You're unlikely to get caught, but you've accomplished your goal of re-directing the D-lineman. Holding calls won't necessarily change due to the jersey changes.

[Gothamite]

It's supposedly more likely to be called when an opposing player hooks his hands under the pads, but that seems to happen a lot more now than I remember, with no flags. A side effect of the wife-beater jerseys some linemen now wear.

I'm firmly in the "psychological benefit only" camp on this one.

[BBTV]

I dunno. I played high school football two years with long sleeved jerseys and one year with more modern (not as extreme as today's though) jerseys with short sleeves and elastic that would come to only a little under the shoulder pad. I (lineman / LB) definitely preferred the shorter sleeve, as I could just "feel" the longer one. It may not have actually had an impact, but just the fat that I knew it was there bothered me a little bit. Had I never worn a shorter-sleeved jersey, it's certainly nothing that I would have complained about because it wasn't that big a deal, but after having switched, I wouldn't switch back.

Wouldn't it also be kind of like the same reason why basketball players wear tank tops? You're a 300lb guy sweating your ass off, wouldn't you want as much exposed skin as possible?