Joe Paterno: Dead

[CS85]

edit: bah, that wrong.

[Saintsfan]

I have a problem with the hate being poured out on Paterno. Take the '87 national championship. (I think I got the right year.) whilst playing film of that game people are inevitably going to connect Paterno with child molestation. Never mind that the guy that ran the defense that was crucial to that win was the guy who actually molested the children.

This is not to say that Paterno's reputation shouldn't be damaged but my issue is that the real villain of the piece will be forgotten in no time, whilst everything Paterno has done in a lifetime of coaching young men, providing an example etc, being everything he is accused of not doing, in most cases, and vice versa, is forgotten. That's not to say his part in the Sanduskey Scandal should be forgotten either, but let's consider his long, confusing, fascinating and difficult legacy in it's entirety.

[Punch]

And he tacitly endorsed the use of his locker room for anally raping young boys, soooo

Well of course it sounds bad when you put it that way, geez. I think most would prefer to say that Joe Paterno was respectful of others' privacy.

[Evil Doctor]

All the tremendous things Joe Paterno did for so many young men should not be over looked. You guys can burn him at the stake if you'd like, but don't ignore all he did in his legendary career. JoePa made an enormous positive impact on the lives of thousands of young men

Is that still an option? Hmmmmm.....

[charger77]

I have a problem with the hate being poured out on Paterno. Take the '87 national championship. (I think I got the right year.) whilst playing film of that game people are inevitably going to connect Paterno with child molestation. Never mind that the guy that ran the defense that was crucial to that win was the guy who actually molested the children.

This is not to say that Paterno's reputation shouldn't be damaged but my issue is that the real villain of the piece will be forgotten in no time, whilst everything Paterno has done in a lifetime of coaching young men, providing an example etc, being everything he is accused of not doing, in most cases, and vice versa, is forgotten. That's not to say his part in the Sanduskey Scandal should be forgotten either, but let's consider his long, confusing, fascinating and difficult legacy in it's entirety.

Yeah, its a real shame that some of the fall out of all this child rape will be that some people will forget 1987 National Championship... That's the real crime here.

__________________________________________________________________________________

For whatever reason, I can't seem to imagine that if one day (God forbid), any of our kids are sexually assaulted that we would listen to any kind of "Well he was really good at his job" or "Let's not let this define his career" about the person that covered it up and allowed more kids to be assaulted.

Once again, if this was Joe Paterno, Penn State Janitor and not Joe Paterno, Penn State Football coach I doubt we'd be seeing all the "yeah buts" and a call for bygones to be bygones.

[The_Admiral]

my issue is that the real villain of the piece will be forgotten in no time

No he won't.

everything Paterno has done in a lifetime of coaching young men, providing an example etc, being everything he is accused of not doing, in most cases, and vice versa, is forgotten.

Not so much forgotten as overshadowed, and for good reason: that he successfully instructed a bunch of jocks how to knock each other over is, in the grand scheme of things, awfully irrelevant. And don't give me that straight-from-the-Big-Ten-corporate-office crap about how he was sculpting future leaders and developing critical thinkers and all that. No. We bestow so much on coaches and I don't know why. He was presiding over a fiefdom of minor league football that would've been disrupted on numerous occasions if he hadn't the power to keep investigators at bay, or if he had said something about the systematic rape farm operating in his midst, but all that mattered was keeping the train rolling. I don't care that he told guys to run laps or do push-ups or whatever. He allowed years and years of child rape to go on unabated so that he would be able to keep doing his silly job. Why doesn't this disgust you on the fundamental level that child rape seems to disgust anyone else? Do you have sons? nephews? neighbors? Aren't you a teacher? Picture one of your students getting bent over and raped in the ass and no one doing anything about it because it would get in the way of winning football games. Doesn't this upset you on some visceral, human level?

One of the narratives that's bothering me is that Joe Paterno's successful football program singlehandedly transformed Penn State from a "second-rate agricultural school" into a world-class academic institution. The cult of Paterno is not distinguishing itself as first-rate independent thinkers, I can tell you that. Why oh why do we as a nation graft minor league sports onto higher education? No one else does this. It makes people f-ckin' stupid. Maybe that's why we do it.

[CS85]

my issue is that the real villain of the piece will be forgotten in no time

No he won't.

To elaborate, Paterno is getting all the heat right now because he was dying/died, and just recently did his faux-deathbed "confession" interview. He's in the headlines for another handful of days.

Sandusky will get his in due time once he's shoved back into the face of the media/subjected to a courtroom. Unfortunately thanks to the wonderful legal system in this country he may be able to put off jail for months and months. I'm guessing by the end of the summer we'll figure out just what kind of a horror this guy truly was via the trial.

That is if he sees trial and doesn't choose the old reliable ".45 to the temple" exit strategy.

[Sport]

I hope Sandusky doesn't choose the ".45 to the temple" exit plan. I hope he gets "The Sisters" treatment in the big house instead.

[Saintsfan]

I have a problem with the hate being poured out on Paterno. Take the '87 national championship. (I think I got the right year.) whilst playing film of that game people are inevitably going to connect Paterno with child molestation. Never mind that the guy that ran the defense that was crucial to that win was the guy who actually molested the children.

This is not to say that Paterno's reputation shouldn't be damaged but my issue is that the real villain of the piece will be forgotten in no time, whilst everything Paterno has done in a lifetime of coaching young men, providing an example etc, being everything he is accused of not doing, in most cases, and vice versa, is forgotten. That's not to say his part in the Sanduskey Scandal should be forgotten either, but let's consider his long, confusing, fascinating and difficult legacy in it's entirety.

Yeah, its a real shame that some of the fall out of all this child rape will be that some people will forget 1987 National Championship... That's the real crime here.

_________________________________________________________________________________

To clarify, my issue has nothing to do with the overshadowing of any football game, rather the overshadowing of a criminal. And to those who don't see that happening, look at the title of the previous thread on this topic.

[charger77]

I have a problem with the hate being poured out on Paterno. Take the '87 national championship. (I think I got the right year.) whilst playing film of that game people are inevitably going to connect Paterno with child molestation. Never mind that the guy that ran the defense that was crucial to that win was the guy who actually molested the children.

This is not to say that Paterno's reputation shouldn't be damaged but my issue is that the real villain of the piece will be forgotten in no time, whilst everything Paterno has done in a lifetime of coaching young men, providing an example etc, being everything he is accused of not doing, in most cases, and vice versa, is forgotten. That's not to say his part in the Sanduskey Scandal should be forgotten either, but let's consider his long, confusing, fascinating and difficult legacy in it's entirety.

Yeah, its a real shame that some of the fall out of all this child rape will be that some people will forget 1987 National Championship... That's the real crime here.

_________________________________________________________________________________

To clarify, my issue has nothing to do with the overshadowing of any football game, rather the overshadowing of a criminal. And to those who don't see that happening, look at the title of the previous thread on this topic.

Fair enough. But it is important to remember that while Sandusky is guilty, so is Paterno.

[OnWis97]

I have a problem with the hate being poured out on Paterno. Take the '87 national championship. (I think I got the right year.) whilst playing film of that game people are inevitably going to connect Paterno with child molestation. Never mind that the guy that ran the defense that was crucial to that win was the guy who actually molested the children.

This is not to say that Paterno's reputation shouldn't be damaged but my issue is that the real villain of the piece will be forgotten in no time, whilst everything Paterno has done in a lifetime of coaching young men, providing an example etc, being everything he is accused of not doing, in most cases, and vice versa, is forgotten. That's not to say his part in the Sanduskey Scandal should be forgotten either, but let's consider his long, confusing, fascinating and difficult legacy in it's entirety.

Yeah, its a real shame that some of the fall out of all this child rape will be that some people will forget 1987 National Championship... That's the real crime here.

_________________________________________________________________________________

To clarify, my issue has nothing to do with the overshadowing of any football game, rather the overshadowing of a criminal. And to those who don't see that happening, look at the title of the previous thread on this topic.

That's the point I thought you were making...and it's true. In a sense, JoPa does not "deserve" the extra publicity vs Sandusky, McQueery, and the rest. He's a victim (if you will) of the fact that he was the only famous person among them all. But two points: 1) I think it's a given that any reasonable person is sickened by Sandusky...it's implied, if you will. 2) It is only Paterno that is getting hero-worship at this point. Nobody's saying "but think of the good that Sandusky did in coordinating the Defense". Nobody's saying "McQueery worked hard as a PSU QB and then have his adulthood to this point to the program...the good outweighs the bad." No rallies for these guys. While they may not be getting their share of the attention, at least the attention they are getting is not misguided and deflected by "the good."

Paterno's getting rallies and talk about "all the good". For those that don't think all that good matters a hill of beans (myself included) vs. what he did not do, that's quite frustrating and raises our ire.

[SilverEagle5]

I have a problem with the hate being poured out on Paterno. Take the '87 national championship. (I think I got the right year.) whilst playing film of that game people are inevitably going to connect Paterno with child molestation. Never mind that the guy that ran the defense that was crucial to that win was the guy who actually molested the children.

This is not to say that Paterno's reputation shouldn't be damaged but my issue is that the real villain of the piece will be forgotten in no time, whilst everything Paterno has done in a lifetime of coaching young men, providing an example etc, being everything he is accused of not doing, in most cases, and vice versa, is forgotten. That's not to say his part in the Sanduskey Scandal should be forgotten either, but let's consider his long, confusing, fascinating and difficult legacy in it's entirety.

Yeah, its a real shame that some of the fall out of all this child rape will be that some people will forget 1987 National Championship... That's the real crime here.

_________________________________________________________________________________

To clarify, my issue has nothing to do with the overshadowing of any football game, rather the overshadowing of a criminal. And to those who don't see that happening, look at the title of the previous thread on this topic.

That's the point I thought you were making...and it's true. In a sense, JoPa does not "deserve" the extra publicity vs Sandusky, McQueery, and the rest. He's a victim (if you will) of the fact that he was the only famous person among them all. But two points: 1) I think it's a given that any reasonable person is sickened by Sandusky...it's implied, if you will. 2) It is only Paterno that is getting hero-worship at this point. Nobody's saying "but think of the good that Sandusky did in coordinating the Defense". Nobody's saying "McQueery worked hard as a PSU QB and then have his adulthood to this point to the program...the good outweighs the bad." No rallies for these guys. While they may not be getting their share of the attention, at least the attention they are getting is not misguided and deflected by "the good."

Paterno's getting rallies and talk about "all the good". For those that don't think all that good matters a hill of beans (myself included) vs. what he did not do, that's quite frustrating and raises our ire.

Probably because they haven't done as much "good" for Penn State and State College as Paterno has.

Also, Sandusky's the person who actually did the crime(s) and McQueary's the one who actually witnessed him. And nobody knows what McQueary actually witnessed. He's changed his story at least three times. Who knows what, exactly, he told Paterno and in how much detail.

Could Paterno have done more? Sure. He could have and probably should have checked back with Curley and Shultz to see if anything came out of their "investigation." That being said, without knowing for sure what Joe knew, what was told to him in 2002, how he comprehended what was told to him, and what he told to Curley, I, personally, can't condemn a man for "looking the other way" or not doing anything about the situation, when I don't know all of the facts of the situation.

[charger77]

I, personally, can't condemn a man for "looking the other way" or not doing anything about the situation, when I don't know all of the facts of the situation.

I hope that one day if my child or any child is being raped that somebody that could stop it does not "look the other way".

[WJMorris3]

Governor Tom Corbett has ordered the state's flags lowered to half-staff for the death of an enabler of pedophilia. My only question is why? Even if you discount the scandal, a football coach dying equates to half-staffing the flag for the day? Ludicrous!

An action like that just proves inability to make capable decisions on behalf of a state.

[NJTank]

I hope Sandusky doesn't choose the ".45 to the temple" exit plan. I hope he gets "The Sisters" treatment in the big house instead.

One way or another Hell awaits Jerry Sandusky.

[pmoehrin]

My whole thing with Joe Paterno's passing and his legacy is just wait and see at this point.

I think people's emotions are running way too highly right now. People need a scapegoat for this. They can't go after Jerry Sandusky as much as they should because nobody outside of Penn State knows who the hell he is outside of this. Penn State football program isn't going to be touched because that would require some serious investigation. (not the BS one that's ongoing now which has already shown to be not an independent report.) I can tell you what my findings would be if I was doing the investigation. Alot of powerful people would lose they're jobs, because this was a multiple person coverup with varying degrees of culpability. The root cause of this is that the football program itslef is the most responsible party in this outside of Sandusky himself because its power inhibited this cover up to occur. In that case the program needs to be scaled back dramatically. If it has the power to allow for a child molester to go unpunished for years potentially even decades, then it has the power to do basically anything it wants to and the University or really anybody for that matter has no real say in its conduct. That's probably not something people at Penn State or in college football really want to hear so they do what they can to sweep it under the rug, but that's really the heart of the issue.

If you go after Joe Paterno he satisfies everything you need for a scapegoat on both sides. He's a public figure and he's not innocent in this which satisfies the public. From the University side of things you don't lose anything directly by attacking him, you can divert attention away from others who may or may not be more guilty and direct attention away from the program otherwise people may start to question its role in the matter. The people who still love Joe Paterno can get their word in but public opinion is clearly against him so at least in the short term your not overturning the current view of him, so you can keep attention focused on him for quite awhile until the story begins to die down and then you can slowly shift the focus back to Sandusky. You will probably never hear any other name mentioned in the media in regards to this or the program's role in allowing this to occur ever be questioned.

[SilverEagle5]

I, personally, can't condemn a man for "looking the other way" or not doing anything about the situation, when I don't know all of the facts of the situation.

I hope that one day if my child or any child is being raped that somebody that could stop it does not "look the other way".

I guess "condemn" was the wrong word. What I should have said was "accuse".

[DEAD!]

Governor Tom Corbett has ordered the state's flags lowered to half-staff for the death of an enabler of pedophilia. My only question is why? Even if you discount the scandal, a football coach dying equates to half-staffing the flag for the day? Ludicrous!

An action like that just proves inability to make capable decisions on behalf of a state.

Well, it is public institution right? That's the only justification I see for that.

[infrared41]

Not so much forgotten as overshadowed, and for good reason: that he successfully instructed a bunch of jocks how to knock each other over is, in the grand scheme of things, awfully irrelevant. And don't give me that straight-from-the-Big-Ten-corporate-office crap about how he was sculpting future leaders and developing critical thinkers and all that. No. We bestow so much on coaches and I don't know why. He was presiding over a fiefdom of minor league football that would've been disrupted on numerous occasions if he hadn't the power to keep investigators at bay, or if he had said something about the systematic rape farm operating in his midst, but all that mattered was keeping the train rolling. I don't care that he told guys to run laps or do push-ups or whatever. He allowed years and years of child rape to go on unabated so that he would be able to keep doing his silly job. Why doesn't this disgust you on the fundamental level that child rape seems to disgust anyone else? Do you have sons? nephews? neighbors? Aren't you a teacher? Picture one of your students getting bent over and raped in the ass and no one doing anything about it because it would get in the way of winning football games. Doesn't this upset you on some visceral, human level?

One of the narratives that's bothering me is that Joe Paterno's successful football program singlehandedly transformed Penn State from a "second-rate agricultural school" into a world-class academic institution. The cult of Paterno is not distinguishing itself as first-rate independent thinkers, I can tell you that. Why oh why do we as a nation graft minor league sports onto higher education? No one else does this. It makes people f-ckin' stupid. Maybe that's why we do it.

Best post in this thread.

[RedSox44]

Well check this out:

Halo Painted Over Joe Paterno on PSU Mural

Penn State was on my list of colleges I' interested in. Was. These people sicken me.