2011-12 NHL Season

[IceCap]

Why do the motives for liking or hating a team concern you so much?

Just curious that's all. The Red Wings have never bothered me but they obviously drive you nuts. I'm just wondering what it is exactly that causes you to hate them so much. I guess I'm just dumb though for not understanding.

You're a Canucks fan. Surely you dislike their rivals. It's the same with Leafs fans towards the Leafs' rivals. The Red Wings are one of them.

[Brendan]

Why do the motives for liking or hating a team concern you so much?

Just curious that's all. The Red Wings have never bothered me but they obviously drive you nuts. I'm just wondering what it is exactly that causes you to hate them so much. I guess I'm just dumb though for not understanding.

You're a Canucks fan. Surely you dislike their rivals. It's the same with Leafs fans towards the Leafs' rivals. The Red Wings are one of them.

You're a Leafs fan and you don't seem to have the same level of hatred towards the Wings.

[IceCap]

I hate them plenty. Well sports hate anyway, but that's a given.

I've just chosen to take a...muted...approach to my teams' fandoms on this forum, both in celebrating them and attacking their rivals. The Leafs/Senators flamewars from way back got a tad out of hand, so I've chosen to tone it down.

[Kramerica Industries]

I've always tried to have an objective mind when it comes to input and analysis on any sport, but I have a laundry list of teams that I flat out hate.

For starters, basically every team in Boston, Philly, and the SEC is on that list. At the same rate, posting about how much I hate those teams won't do any good here or anywhere, really, so there's no point in discussing it.

Time and place.

[CS85]

Just for all this whining, I hope the current Wirtz in charge starts acting like Dollar Bill.

Calling it "whining" is honestly getting so tiresome. I know it's all in fun, but seriously get something new already.

edit: The hawks/flames game feed is showing skills challenge highlights between periods, and it's really refreshing and a ton of fun to watch these guys out of the game context. These guys are some of the best athletes on earth.

[NEW.ERA]

Finally. Jay Bouwmeester is getting used on the Power Play like he was in Florida. DOWN LOW! Also superb screen by Blair Jones.

[CS85]

Finally. Jay Bouwmeester is getting used on the Power Play like he was in Florida. DOWN LOW! Also superb screen by Blair Jones.

Flames are putting on a clinic of the energy and urgency on the power play. The blackhawks just want this game to end so they can go home for a couple days. Nobody in that locker room wants to play hockey right now.

[HedleyLamarr]

Why do the motives for liking or hating a team concern you so much?

Just curious that's all. The Red Wings have never bothered me but they obviously drive you nuts. I'm just wondering what it is exactly that causes you to hate them so much. I guess I'm just dumb though for not understanding.

You're a Canucks fan. Surely you dislike their rivals. It's the same with Leafs fans towards the Leafs' rivals. The Red Wings are one of them.

To Maple Leaf fans age 25-30, just how much of a rival are the Red Wings really to Toronto?

To me, they can't be much of a rival, especially if they only play once (or maybe twice) out of 82 games, and haven't met in the playoffs since 1993. It's akin to the Falcons and 49ers in the NFL....to the average Falcons fan, San Francisco isn't considered much of a rival anymore.

[Kramerica Industries]

Blues win another 1-0 home game.

What is that, they're 10th win like that this season?

[NEW.ERA]

Finally. Jay Bouwmeester is getting used on the Power Play like he was in Florida. DOWN LOW! Also superb screen by Blair Jones.

Flames are putting on a clinic of the energy and urgency on the power play. The blackhawks just want this game to end so they can go home for a couple days. Nobody in that locker room wants to play hockey right now.

They tend to play all the West's "Elite" teams pretty well. They're limiting shots against and mostly the quality shots against. Their keying in on the Kane-Toews-Sharp line really well, and it looks like Emery is the only one playing well. I mean last night was a disaster and as tonight's game progresses it does seem more and more likely they just want to leave Western Canada and never come back at least until April.

All that said, the Flames have made some really blaring errors late in games recently that have led to bad losses, so until that clock strikes zero i'm not sure that they can hold on, but they seem to be playing much better against the Hawks then the Sharks and Wings.

[IceCap]

Why do the motives for liking or hating a team concern you so much?

Just curious that's all. The Red Wings have never bothered me but they obviously drive you nuts. I'm just wondering what it is exactly that causes you to hate them so much. I guess I'm just dumb though for not understanding.

You're a Canucks fan. Surely you dislike their rivals. It's the same with Leafs fans towards the Leafs' rivals. The Red Wings are one of them.

To Maple Leaf fans age 25-30, just how much of a rival are the Red Wings really to Toronto?

I really don't want to come off as a northern hockey snob (especially in light of the CBC Carey Price incident during the Jets' home opener) but hockey fans here, even the younger ones in my age range (24 fwiw) know their history.

On top of that the geographical factor plays into it. The Leafs are king as far hockey goes in southern Ontario, but there's still a persistent, visible anti-Leafs contingent. Some choose to root for the Senators, others the Habs. The most popular choice, especially west of Toronto, is the Red Wings. Which adds to the rivalry in a lot of ways.

To me, they can't be much of a rival, especially if they only play once (or maybe twice) out of 82 games, and haven't met in the playoffs since 1993.

Habs/Leafs really is hockey's answer to Red Sox/Yankees. Two of the oldest teams, decades upon decades of rivalry, all that good stuff. Since the Leafs moved to the East, however, there's the perception in Leafs Nation that the rivalry's been watered down. Now they play each other so often the lustre of the rivalry's been lost.

The Red Wings though? Like the Habs they're an Original 6-era rival. Since they play the Leafs much less often each game means more in the grand scheme of the rivalry. The Leafs lose a game to the Habs? They'll get another shot in two weeks, at the longest. If they lose a game to the Red Wings? They may not get a shot at revenge until next season. Or if by some miracle they meet in the Stanley Cup Finals.

It's akin to the Falcons and 49ers in the NFL....to the average Falcons fan, San Francisco isn't considered much of a rival anymore.

49ers/Falcons doesn't quite have the same level to it as Leafs/Wings. Again, I don't want to come off as a hockey snob, but that's just how it is. The Leafs and Wings have been going at it since 1926. Heck, the Red Wings came into the league the same year the Leafs franchise became the Leafs. There's a history there that just isn't there in 49ers/Falcons. Sorry, your comparison just doesn't hold water.

I can't speak for Red Wings Nation, but Leafs Nation, even the younger crowd, considers the Red Wings a top rival. Think of it as odd or nonsensical if you want, but I'm just telling you how it is in the heart of blue and white country.

[charger77]

Why do the motives for liking or hating a team concern you so much?

Just curious that's all. The Red Wings have never bothered me but they obviously drive you nuts. I'm just wondering what it is exactly that causes you to hate them so much. I guess I'm just dumb though for not understanding.

You're a Canucks fan. Surely you dislike their rivals. It's the same with Leafs fans towards the Leafs' rivals. The Red Wings are one of them.

To Maple Leaf fans age 25-30, just how much of a rival are the Red Wings really to Toronto?

I really don't want to come off as a northern hockey snob (especially in light of the CBC Carey Price incident during the Jets' home opener) but hockey fans here, even the younger ones in my age range (24 fwiw) know their history.

On top of that the geographical factor plays into it. The Leafs are king as far hockey goes in southern Ontario, but there's still a persistent, visible anti-Leafs contingent. Some choose to root for the Senators, others the Habs. The most popular choice, especially west of Toronto, is the Red Wings. Which adds to the rivalry in a lot of ways.

To me, they can't be much of a rival, especially if they only play once (or maybe twice) out of 82 games, and haven't met in the playoffs since 1993.

Habs/Leafs really is hockey's answer to Red Sox/Yankees. Two of the oldest teams, decades upon decades of rivalry, all that good stuff. Since the Leafs moved to the East, however, there's the perception in Leafs Nation that the rivalry's been watered down. Now they play each other so often the lustre of the rivalry's been lost.

The Red Wings though? Like the Habs they're an Original 6-era rival. Since they play the Leafs much less often each game means more in the grand scheme of the rivalry. The Leafs lose a game to the Habs? They'll get another shot in two weeks, at the longest. If they lose a game to the Red Wings? They may not get a shot at revenge until next season. Or if by some miracle they meet in the Stanley Cup Finals.

It's akin to the Falcons and 49ers in the NFL....to the average Falcons fan, San Francisco isn't considered much of a rival anymore.

49ers/Falcons doesn't quite have the same level to it as Leafs/Wings. Again, I don't want to come off as a hockey snob, but that's just how it is. The Leafs and Wings have been going at it since 1926. Heck, the Red Wings came into the league the same year the Leafs franchise became the Leafs. There's a history there that just isn't there in 49ers/Falcons. Sorry, your comparison just doesn't hold water.

I can't speak for Red Wings Nation, but Leafs Nation, even the younger crowd, considers the Red Wings a top rival. Think of it as odd or nonsensical if you want, but I'm just telling you how it is in the heart of blue and white country.

A bit of insight is that I grew up on CBC's Hockey Night in Canada beginning in 1986. I grew up watching Norris games and the Norris Divisional playoffs.

[HedleyLamarr]

To Maple Leaf fans age 25-30, just how much of a rival are the Red Wings really to Toronto?

I really don't want to come off as a northern hockey snob (especially in light of the CBC Carey Price incident during the Jets' home opener) but hockey fans here, even the younger ones in my age range (24 fwiw) know their history.

On top of that the geographical factor plays into it. The Leafs are king as far hockey goes in southern Ontario, but there's still a persistent, visible anti-Leafs contingent. Some choose to root for the Senators, others the Habs. The most popular choice, especially west of Toronto, is the Red Wings. Which adds to the rivalry in a lot of ways.

First off, it was a question of curiosity.

Secondly, I do question how much of a serious rival the Red Wings are to Maple Leafs fans in that particular demographic because of how insignificant their matchups have been since these fans were able to watch and comprehend hockey. Saying you "know your history" doesn't quite apply because these historical moments happened well before you were born. Do you get mad when someone mentions that Detroit beat Toronto for the Cup in 1936? Or brag that Toronto beat Detroit in the Cup Final in 1963? I think we have differing thoughts on what a rivalry really is.

I assume you were born in 1987. I'll be generous and say you really started being a big fan of the Leafs in 1992. Counting only their matchups between 1992 through today, what has made the Red Wings a heated rival with the Maple Leafs?

I don't quite buy the geographical part of that argument, either. It's similar to the Pirates and Phillies in baseball, to me.

A 40-50 year old Leafs fan would have a bigger disliking of the Red Wings because they can remember when their matchups were a big deal. Not only did they play numerous times in the regular season, they'd also meet frequently in the playoffs.

A 25-year-old Leafs fans has only seen the two meet in the playoffs once, and for the last 13 years....have only seen the teams play each other once a season (or maybe twice early on), or even a couple years where the two didn't meet at all. That's certainly not enough to warrant being labeled as a "heated rivalry" to me....especially when the Leafs have played Red Wings about as many times as they've played the Kings, Sharks, and Blues in that same time span.

To me, they can't be much of a rival, especially if they only play once (or maybe twice) out of 82 games, and haven't met in the playoffs since 1993.

Habs/Leafs really is hockey's answer to Red Sox/Yankees. Two of the oldest teams, decades upon decades of rivalry, all that good stuff. Since the Leafs moved to the East, however, there's the perception in Leafs Nation that the rivalry's been watered down. Now they play each other so often the lustre of the rivalry's been lost.

The Red Wings though? Like the Habs they're an Original 6-era rival. Since they play the Leafs much less often each game means more in the grand scheme of the rivalry. The Leafs lose a game to the Habs? They'll get another shot in two weeks, at the longest. If they lose a game to the Red Wings? They may not get a shot at revenge until next season. Or if by some miracle they meet in the Stanley Cup Finals.

To me, Red Wings-Maple Leafs are a lot like the Braves-Dodgers. Now that they're in different divisions and play so infrequently now than they used to, it's lessened (or killed) the heat of the rivalry to a flicker of a flame.

Simply put, when you play a team fewer times, it doesn't enhance the rivalry. In fact, it dwindles to the point where it just becomes "another game". Now when the Braves play the Dodgers, it's become "just another 3-game series" instead of "Hey look, the hated rivals are coming to town!"...and these two have been playing each other since the 1880's.

How can one hate a team when they play so infrequently?

It's akin to the Falcons and 49ers in the NFL....to the average Falcons fan, San Francisco isn't considered much of a rival anymore.

49ers/Falcons doesn't quite have the same level to it as Leafs/Wings. Again, I don't want to come off as a hockey snob, but that's just how it is. The Leafs and Wings have been going at it since 1926. Heck, the Red Wings came into the league the same year the Leafs franchise became the Leafs. There's a history there that just isn't there in 49ers/Falcons. Sorry, your comparison just doesn't hold water.

I can't speak for Red Wings Nation, but Leafs Nation, even the younger crowd, considers the Red Wings a top rival. Think of it as odd or nonsensical if you want, but I'm just telling you how it is in the heart of blue and white country.

It's completely nonsensical, especially if your basis is "knowing your history" and just about every worthwhile heated moment happened before your time. I can understand older Leafs fans having a dislike of the Red Wings because of what they've witnessed over the years, but not a Leafs fan under the age of 30.

[juanack]

[No]

[IceCap]

To Maple Leaf fans age 25-30, just how much of a rival are the Red Wings really to Toronto?

I really don't want to come off as a northern hockey snob (especially in light of the CBC Carey Price incident during the Jets' home opener) but hockey fans here, even the younger ones in my age range (24 fwiw) know their history.

On top of that the geographical factor plays into it. The Leafs are king as far hockey goes in southern Ontario, but there's still a persistent, visible anti-Leafs contingent. Some choose to root for the Senators, others the Habs. The most popular choice, especially west of Toronto, is the Red Wings. Which adds to the rivalry in a lot of ways.

First off, it was a question of curiosity.

If you perceive my response to this inquiry of yours as being more aggressive then you think is warranted, it's because I don't see this as simply a "question of curiosity." I see it as you thinking you have the right to tell some of the most hardcore and dedicated hockey fans in the world who they have a right to consider their team's rivals. Sorry, but that smacks me as pretty arrogant on your part. You don't see me telling you how Atlanta Falcons football fandom should work.

You weren't born here. You didn't grow up here. You're not a Leafs fan. You've never been to a Leafs/Wings game. I'll even go out on a limb and say you haven't watched very many of their match-ups on tv.

So pardon me if I take the "who do you think you are?" approach to your insistence that you know how to be a better Leafs fan then actually Leafs fans do.

Now the history, sure it all happened before my generation's time. So what? We're aware of it. We know it happened. And that knowledge is what makes a game with the Red Wings different from a game with the Sharks or Kings. You can say it doesn't matter all you want. For us, it effects how we view Leafs/Wings games.

As for the geographical thing? An anecdote. My friend and I, we're both Leafs fans. Just last week he and I got into a heated rivalry-fuelled debate with a Red Wings fan....from Markham. He's literally from a suburb of Toronto. Yet he's a Wings fan. He's part of that anti-Leafs contingent in southern Ontario and he's adopted the Red Wings as his team. Take it from someone who grew up and lives in this region, the geographical factor with the Wings plays a huge part in this. This Wings fan by the way? He's 20.

You had a Red Wings fan from Markham and two Leafs fans, all under 25, discussing the Leafs and Wings as if they were, in fact, rivals. No older fans were present. Just three guys born in the late 80s/early 90s. That proves to me that a rivalry between the teams still exists.

Secondly, I do question how much of a serious rival the Red Wings are to Maple Leafs fans in that particular demographic because of how insignificant their matchups have been since these fans were able to watch and comprehend hockey. Saying you "know your history" doesn't quite apply because these historical moments happened well before you were born. Do you get mad when someone mentions that Detroit beat Toronto for the Cup in 1936? Or brag that Toronto beat Detroit in the Cup Final in 1963?

I can say with certainty that Leafs fans, even the ones my age, still bring up the 1942 Stanley Cup Finals when it comes to "talking smack" with Red Wings fans.

I think we have differing thoughts on what a rivalry really is.

You know what? That's fine. I won't even say you're necessarily wrong. You do bring up some valid point.

My issue with this whole exercise is, again, the arrogance of a hockey fan from Georgia telling Maple Leafs fans how their fandom should work and who they should and shouldn't consider a "rival." You don't have to get it, or even like it to be perfectly honest. If you're just simply curious about it then you have your answer and that should be enough. Don't presume that you know how we should act and think as hockey fans better then we do ourselves.

[ElwoodCuse]

No straight up wins and losses unless we get rid of the shootout because it's bullcrap

[lordsketor]

No straight up wins and losses unless we get rid of the shootout because it's bullcrap

You rather have ties returned to the NHL?

[nash61]

I'm a Leafs and Blue Jackets fan, and I hate the Canucks more than the Red Wings.

Logic: (Leafs fan) Their Stanley Cup drought is almost as long as ours is.

(Leafs fan) Their fans have to be the most annoying and arrogant in the league, followed closely by Montreal fans. (The only difference is that the Habs fans have 24 Cups to back up their arrogance with... and Scott Gomez for us to make fun of)

(Blue Jackets fan) Though the Wings enjoy beating up on the Jackets nearly ever game, they've been nothing but classy. They got rid of Sean Avery as soon as they could, and Nick Lidstrom is an amazingly humble legend. Detroit is a model franchise, and has earned their championships (unlike *cough-cough* the Penguins)

[Sport]

Nice comeback win for the Blue Jackets, but I really don't care if they win or lose anymore. Brassard's OT winner and the tying goal by Jeff Carter were pretty though.

I want the Blue Jackets to tank for Nail Yakupov, but I know in my heart of hearts that they will either lose the lottery, ruin him in development like they've ruined basically every other draft pick they've ever had, or something terrible like a knee injury or a car accident will end his career. It's the blackhole of major professional hockey.

[BigBubba]

I think the Leafs-Wings rivalry is more of an old-time hockey historic thing than a "we hate your guts" kind of thing. You can't have any reasons to personally hate Detroit - as nash61 said, they are a model franchise. The main reason to cheer against them is probably because of the history behind any given Leafs-Wings matchup (all the Cup finals, playoff matches, and legends that have played in them), and not some recent hate bout (Canucks-Bruins; Canucks-Hawks; while it's died down, Avs-Wings).