San Jose A's

[oaklandhusker]

Looks like it might be happening. Thoughts?

[McCall]

It's in the MLB thread.

[aci]

The rotation on virtually all the letters in "San Jose" are off, which leads me to suspect either fakery or a cheap knock-off that clearly isn't going to be mass-produced. Where was this taken and who's the old dude?

[phutmasterflex]

Already in the other thread

This was from a meeting held by team owner. I think he just put together this plush doll by removing the OAKLAND and asking some five year old to put in SAN JOSE

Nothing is official yet

[RedSox44]

The rotation on virtually all the letters in "San Jose" are off, which leads me to suspect either fakery or a cheap knock-off that clearly isn't going to be mass-produced. Where was this taken and who's the old dude?

Check a few pages back in the MLB thread. Full story and discussion over there.

[jkrdevil]

It's in the MLB thread.

The rotation on virtually all the letters in "San Jose" are off, which leads me to suspect either fakery or a cheap knock-off that clearly isn't going to be mass-produced. Where was this taken and who's the old dude?

Already in the other thread

This was from a meeting held by team owner. I think he just put together this plush doll by removing the OAKLAND and asking some five year old to put in SAN JOSE

Nothing is official yet

The rotation on virtually all the letters in "San Jose" are off, which leads me to suspect either fakery or a cheap knock-off that clearly isn't going to be mass-produced. Where was this taken and who's the old dude?

Check a few pages back in the MLB thread. Full story and discussion over there.

It thought a while ago we decided we weren't going to do the "it's in the official thread" thing for major news. People don't like to have to dig through that. I would consider a potential name change major news.

This thread is fine to discuss.

[Shumway]

Obviously, this is a quick mock-up, but if that's the route they take, I'm totally fine with it. I'd be upset with a rebrand, as Oakland has probably the best uniform set in the league.

[bosrs1]

It is official, or at least as official as they've done so far. This wasn't a cheap knock off or anything like that, it was created by Wolff and Co for this particular meeting they attended in San Jose (I believe it was the SJ rotary club). Obviously they threw it together (based on it only being the current logo and the E is falling off of it), but it's also the first thing out of the A's organization itself with the new name from after the move meaning it is official. And when you consider it was at a meeting where Wolff acknowledged for the first time that the Oakland A's would become the San Jose A's post move (as San Jose the city is requiring by contract) it does make it somewhat notable. (I was the first one to post this in the MLB thread by the way just so I get some credit ). Still it doesn't mean it'll be the final San Jose A's logo, though they've so far not show much inclination to change much with any of their proposed moves to Fremont or San Jose.

[hockey week]

It's in the MLB thread.

The rotation on virtually all the letters in "San Jose" are off, which leads me to suspect either fakery or a cheap knock-off that clearly isn't going to be mass-produced. Where was this taken and who's the old dude?

Already in the other thread

This was from a meeting held by team owner. I think he just put together this plush doll by removing the OAKLAND and asking some five year old to put in SAN JOSE

Nothing is official yet

The rotation on virtually all the letters in "San Jose" are off, which leads me to suspect either fakery or a cheap knock-off that clearly isn't going to be mass-produced. Where was this taken and who's the old dude?

Check a few pages back in the MLB thread. Full story and discussion over there.

It thought a while ago we decided we weren't going to do the "it's in the official thread" thing for major news. People don't like to have to dig through that. I would consider a potential name change major news.

This thread is fine to discuss.

I agree. Giant "official" threads only dampen discussion and keep all but the super-interested out of the loop. Little threads for big news are necessary for a niche board like this to keep going. I certainly never would have known otherwise.

[BadSeed84]

^ I agree, theres also another thread (Philadelphia wings usin twitter names on the back of their jersey) where people complained it was already mentioned in the main nll threads.

I dont see whats so wrong makin a thread about stuff that happens.

[kw11333]

In terms of relocation, this is probably one of the shortest in sports history, the only one shorter has yet to happen(NJ-Brooklyn). Would fans in Oakland still cheer for the A's? Three World Championships in that city...

[TFoA]

In terms of relocation, this is probably one of the shortest in sports history, the only one shorter has yet to happen(NJ-Brooklyn). Would fans in Oakland still cheer for the A's? Three World Championships in that city...

Unless their civic pride is just THAT strong, I can't imagine that any A's fans would jump ship. Not like they moved to Winnipeg or anything.

[bosrs1]

In terms of relocation, this is probably one of the shortest in sports history, the only one shorter has yet to happen(NJ-Brooklyn). Would fans in Oakland still cheer for the A's? Three World Championships in that city...

Unless their civic pride is just THAT strong, I can't imagine that any A's fans would jump ship. Not like they moved to Winnipeg or anything.

There is actually a very vocal, very "dedicated", core of what are termed "Oakland-only" A's fans who are planning to abandon the team should they move to San Jose. They see the 30 miles (in the same metro area) that the A's would be moving from the Coliseum to Cisco Field, as no different than the 3500 miles the team has already moved in its existence. In fact some would prefer that the team move out of state than move to San Jose. They're not the majority, but there are A's fans who will be jumping ship if the team moves to San Jose.

I'm in the opposite boat at this point. I'm so tired with and disgusted by the city of Oakland's lack of interest in the A's and the half hearted "attempts" the city has made to keep the team that I want them in San Jose ASAP and will be jumping ship if they don't move. San Jose has done everything within their capability to get the team, and are a location within the Bay Area that ensures a better future. Oakland has no capability to keep the team if San Jose is denied and will eventually lose them to an out of state locale.

[winghaz]

Unless their civic pride is just THAT strong, I can't imagine that any A's fans would jump ship. Not like they moved to Winnipeg or anything.

Hmmm. The Winnipeg Athletics. Has a nice ring to it.

[FiddySicks]

In terms of relocation, this is probably one of the shortest in sports history, the only one shorter has yet to happen(NJ-Brooklyn). Would fans in Oakland still cheer for the A's? Three World Championships in that city...

Unless their civic pride is just THAT strong, I can't imagine that any A's fans would jump ship. Not like they moved to Winnipeg or anything.

There is actually a very vocal, very "dedicated", core of what are termed "Oakland-only" A's fans who are planning to abandon the team should they move to San Jose. They see the 30 miles (in the same metro area) that the A's would be moving from the Coliseum to Cisco Field, as no different than the 3500 miles the team has already moved in its existence. In fact some would prefer that the team move out of state than move to San Jose. They're not the majority, but there are A's fans who will be jumping ship if the team moves to San Jose.

I'm in the opposite boat at this point. I'm so tired with and disgusted by the city of Oakland's lack of interest in the A's and the half hearted "attempts" the city has made to keep the team that I want them in San Jose ASAP and will be jumping ship if they don't move. San Jose has done everything within their capability to get the team, and are a location within the Bay Area that ensures a better future. Oakland has no capability to keep the team if San Jose is denied and will eventually lose them to an out of state locale.

That's so ridiculous. They'd bail due to a move of 30 miles? That just seems so petty. The only shot the A's actually have of building up a strong fan base and becoming a competitive team is if the move to San Jose goes through. As much as it bums me out to say, they'll NEVER get a fair shot in Oakland. Hell, just look at the contrast between them and the Giants. When AT&T Park was built the Giants really became a premier ball club and they started raking in revenue hand over fist, and for the most part, they haven't stopped over a decade later. Before that, they had certain problems during their time at Candlestick and almost moved out of state at least once. I'm not saying its a guarantee that'll happen in San Jose, but it's certainly possible.

Another thing I heard last weekend that really showed just how much of a stranglehold the Giants have over the A's in that market.

2012 Giants FanFest estimated attendance: 40,000 to 50,000

2012 A's FanFest estimated attendance: 6,800 to 7,500

[Jungle Jim]

In terms of relocation, this is probably one of the shortest in sports history, the only one shorter has yet to happen(NJ-Brooklyn). Would fans in Oakland still cheer for the A's? Three World Championships in that city...

Four, if you count 1989.

[bosrs1]

In terms of relocation, this is probably one of the shortest in sports history, the only one shorter has yet to happen(NJ-Brooklyn). Would fans in Oakland still cheer for the A's? Three World Championships in that city...

Unless their civic pride is just THAT strong, I can't imagine that any A's fans would jump ship. Not like they moved to Winnipeg or anything.

There is actually a very vocal, very "dedicated", core of what are termed "Oakland-only" A's fans who are planning to abandon the team should they move to San Jose. They see the 30 miles (in the same metro area) that the A's would be moving from the Coliseum to Cisco Field, as no different than the 3500 miles the team has already moved in its existence. In fact some would prefer that the team move out of state than move to San Jose. They're not the majority, but there are A's fans who will be jumping ship if the team moves to San Jose.

I'm in the opposite boat at this point. I'm so tired with and disgusted by the city of Oakland's lack of interest in the A's and the half hearted "attempts" the city has made to keep the team that I want them in San Jose ASAP and will be jumping ship if they don't move. San Jose has done everything within their capability to get the team, and are a location within the Bay Area that ensures a better future. Oakland has no capability to keep the team if San Jose is denied and will eventually lose them to an out of state locale.

That's so ridiculous. They'd bail due to a move of 30 miles? That just seems so petty. The only shot the A's actually have of building up a strong fan base and becoming a competitive team is if the move to San Jose goes through. As much as it bums me out to say, they'll NEVER get a fair shot in Oakland. Hell, just look at the contrast between them and the Giants. When AT&T Park was built the Giants really became a premier ball club and they started raking in revenue hand over fist, and for the most part, they haven't stopped over a decade later. Before that, they had certain problems during their time at Candlestick and almost moved out of state at least once. I'm not saying its a guarantee that'll happen in San Jose, but it's certainly possible.

Another thing I heard last weekend that really showed just how much of a stranglehold the Giants have over the A's in that market.

2012 Giants FanFest estimated attendance: 40,000 to 50,000

2012 A's FanFest estimated attendance: 6,800 to 7,500

It may seem petty, but it stems from the Bay Area being what it is, 3 very disparate, very different cities, that are all "large" and all lumped in together in the same region. Sometimes they work together as people outside the region think they do, and sometimes there is animosity between them. Think of the Bay Area as like New York back in the 1890's when the different boroughs were different cities that all competed against each other and in many ways hated each other. That's the Bay Area today only the cities are even more spread out and will never be combined into a single city as a result. For many in Oakland this is one of those "don't work together" times. They see the upstart city San Jose (who used to be smaller and less important than them) stealing the A's as the final piece in an eclipsing of Oakland that has been ongoing for 40 years now. Think of losing the A's (and likely the Warriors and Raiders) as the final indignity and the final act that diminishes Oakland to a second tier status in many ways turning them into a Fremont rather than one of the big 3 of the region.

You can see where they're coming from. And while I don't agree it's understandable. That said, this has been a long time coming. Oakland is a city in major trouble. It's still one of the most crime ridden cities in California and the US per capita, they're broke, and they're the only major city in the state that is losing population. Losing the A's is just another symptom of a larger problem they've got to deal with.

As for fanfest, I'm not surprised it went down that bad attendance wise. In addition to the A's overall attendance problems, Oakland's fanfest wasn't held in the ballpark but in the neighboring Arena (unlike the Giants), and they charged you to get in (unlike the Giants which was free), add in the general anger with the organization after the dismantling this winter, and the rumors that the "Oakland-Only" crowd was going to be protesting (though it didn't happen) and many people stayed away.

[OnWis97]

It may seem petty, but it stems from the Bay Area being what it is, 3 very disparate, very different cities, that are all "large" and all lumped in together in the same region. Sometimes they work together as people outside the region think they do, and sometimes there is animosity between them. Think of the Bay Area as like New York back in the 1930's when the different boroughs were different cities that all competed against each other and in many ways hated each other. That's the Bay Area today only the cities are even more spread out and will never be combined into a single city as a result. For many in Oakland this is one of those "don't work together" times. They see the upstart city San Jose (who used to be smaller and less important than them) stealing the A's as the final piece in an eclipsing of Oakland that has been ongoing for 40 years now. Think of losing the A's (and likely the Warriors and Raiders) as the final indignity and the final act that diminishes Oakland to a second tier status in many ways turning them into a Fremont rather than one of the big 3 of the region.

You can see where they're coming from. And while I don't agree it's understandable. That said, this has been a long time coming. Oakland is a city in major trouble. It's still one of the most crime ridden cities in California and the US per capita, they're broke, and they're the only major city in the state that is losing population. Losing the A's is just another symptom of a larger problem they've got to deal with.

As for fanfest, I'm not surprised it went down that bad attendance wise. In addition to the A's overall attendance problems, Oakland's fanfest wasn't held in the ballpark but in the neighboring Arena (unlike the Giants), and they charged you to get in (unlike the Giants which was free), add in the general anger with the organization after the dismantling this winter, and the rumors that the "Oakland-Only" crowd was going to be protesting (though it didn't happen) and many people stayed away.

Good post. I like your analogy to the boroughs.

I am biased toward the "old urban core" and as such, I'd prefer the A's stay in Oakland. But based on the population and per-capita income, as much as it bugs me to say, I am sure it makes a ton of sense for them to move to San Jose. That said, if their Oakland-based fans jump ship, who are we to question? I went to an A's game in 2007 (just days after going to a Giants game), and while Giants have a great ballpark, the A's fans were entertaining as hell. AT & T park was beautiful, but kind of "a place to be", whereas the fans waving flags in the outfield were not there to see Mount Davis. It was a lot of fun (though I acknowledge that the entire upper deck was covered in tarps). I have no data, but I picture those people as not having traveled too far and many probably came on BART or other transit. Now they have to drive 30 miles. Weeknight games will now be more difficult to get to and some of that connection would be lost. If the Cubs move to the 'burbs, I guarantee you the fan ferver would plummet (and who could blame 'em).

I suspect that a baby being born today (barring a strict "A's upbringing") that will grow up in Oakland will more likely cheer for the Giants, who will be closer and more accessible.

I'll miss the contrast between the blue collar team and the trendy team, but things change...

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

Think of the Bay Area as like New York back in the 1930's when the different boroughs were different cities that all competed against each other and in many ways hated each other.

Quick historical note: all of the boroughs were already part of New York City by the 1930s. New York's current 5-borough arrangement dates from 1898, when New York City annexed the city of Brooklyn (encompassing all of Kings County), the western half of Queens County (which included the city of Long Island City as well as several towns -- the towns of Queens County's eastern half remained outside the City and became Nassau County the following year), and Richmond County. These became the boroughs of Brooklyn, Queens, and Staten Island, respectively. The Bronx had already been part of New York City and New York County, having been annexed from Westchester County over the previous decades; The Bronx remained part of New York County until 1914, when it gained its separate county status as Bronx County.

Now back to your regularly-scheduled program.

[bosrs1]

It may seem petty, but it stems from the Bay Area being what it is, 3 very disparate, very different cities, that are all "large" and all lumped in together in the same region. Sometimes they work together as people outside the region think they do, and sometimes there is animosity between them. Think of the Bay Area as like New York back in the 1930's when the different boroughs were different cities that all competed against each other and in many ways hated each other. That's the Bay Area today only the cities are even more spread out and will never be combined into a single city as a result. For many in Oakland this is one of those "don't work together" times. They see the upstart city San Jose (who used to be smaller and less important than them) stealing the A's as the final piece in an eclipsing of Oakland that has been ongoing for 40 years now. Think of losing the A's (and likely the Warriors and Raiders) as the final indignity and the final act that diminishes Oakland to a second tier status in many ways turning them into a Fremont rather than one of the big 3 of the region.

You can see where they're coming from. And while I don't agree it's understandable. That said, this has been a long time coming. Oakland is a city in major trouble. It's still one of the most crime ridden cities in California and the US per capita, they're broke, and they're the only major city in the state that is losing population. Losing the A's is just another symptom of a larger problem they've got to deal with.

As for fanfest, I'm not surprised it went down that bad attendance wise. In addition to the A's overall attendance problems, Oakland's fanfest wasn't held in the ballpark but in the neighboring Arena (unlike the Giants), and they charged you to get in (unlike the Giants which was free), add in the general anger with the organization after the dismantling this winter, and the rumors that the "Oakland-Only" crowd was going to be protesting (though it didn't happen) and many people stayed away.

Good post. I like your analogy to the boroughs.

I am biased toward the "old urban core" and as such, I'd prefer the A's stay in Oakland. But based on the population and per-capita income, as much as it bugs me to say, I am sure it makes a ton of sense for them to move to San Jose. That said, if their Oakland-based fans jump ship, who are we to question? I went to an A's game in 2007 (just days after going to a Giants game), and while Giants have a great ballpark, the A's fans were entertaining as hell. AT & T park was beautiful, but kind of "a place to be", whereas the fans waving flags in the outfield were not there to see Mount Davis. It was a lot of fun (though I acknowledge that the entire upper deck was covered in tarps). I have no data, but I picture those people as not having traveled too far and many probably came on BART or other transit. Now they have to drive 30 miles. Weeknight games will now be more difficult to get to and some of that connection would be lost. If the Cubs move to the 'burbs, I guarantee you the fan ferver would plummet (and who could blame 'em).

I suspect that a baby being born today (barring a strict "A's upbringing") that will grow up in Oakland will more likely cheer for the Giants, who will be closer and more accessible.

I'll miss the contrast between the blue collar team and the trendy team, but things change...

Problem has been that any baby born in the last 12 years has been raised a Giants fan. You find more Giants fans in Oakland these days than you do A's fans it seems. Hell the Giants just opened a "Dugout store" in Walnut Creek (one of the A's most affluent areas in their current east bay "territory"). The Giants have been like a disease infusing every corner of the Bay Area since they opened that overrated ballpark on McCovey slough. And unfortunately staying in Oakland doesn't appear to be the cure. San Jose MIGHT be, but unfortunately for the A's the Giants currently hold the privileges on that area and aren't going to give them up without compensation or being forced to it. The former the A's would prefer not to do (outside reason of course), and the latter MLB would prefer not to do without unanimous consent.

That said it will come to a head this year. Wolff has said if a decision is not forthcoming from MLB in the next few months he'll force the issue by calling for a vote (as is his right as an owner) and he likely has the votes (just not unanimity which is why MLB has been stalling).

And while they'd lose some of the "blue collar" appeal by moving to San Jose, SJ also has a large blue collar base as well in addition to the techies. Add to that the natural old city v new city animosity between SF and SJ and it could actually revitalize the rivalry between the A's and Giants that seems to have lost what bite it had in the years since the 1989 World Series as Oakland (city and team) has waned, the Giants have become the heavily dominant team, and the press have all but forgotten the A's in the region.