The Big Ol' Counterfeit Jersey Thread

[Stroboy]

I know the Montreal Canadiens had a trade in sale where they offered a discount if you turned in a fake jersey, but it would be really interesting to see what would happen if a pro team really, really took a hard line against fakes.

Not allowing people into the stadium wearing or even possessing fakes, not allowing players to sign fakes, not allowing vendors to sell fakes near the stadium or at team sponsored events, like their fan fests. It sure would be interesting to see how many people would be turned away or would have to surrender their fakes to be allowed in the stadium on a game day. THAT would make the news and draw some real attention to the issue, and it might be worth the possible PR hit to try it if you could spin the media attention the right way and have them cover the anti-American Chinese counterfeit angle rather than have the issue become the greedy team angle.

I heard some interesting news on the local sports station here in Calgary just before the Winter Classic when there was talk in the news about all the counterfeit material being seized in Pittsburgh. They put a bit of a local spin on it and talked about how this thing relates to the Flames. There are often times when a charity group comes to the Flames organization and asks them to have the players sign it so they can auction it off to raise money for their group. Often, the jersey they present to the Flames is a counterfeit and the Flames won't sign it as it is stolen intellectual property. The charities here that think they are getting something great to raise a lot of money just turn out to be a disappointment.

And if the knock-off item isn't spotted right away and gets it's signatures and makes it to the auction table, what if someone there notices that it is a fake? Then the price goes down and that charity loses out on potential funds.

Here is just another example of how someone supporting counterfeits ends up with another victim.

[OnWis97]

I know the Montreal Canadiens had a trade in sale where they offered a discount if you turned in a fake jersey, but it would be really interesting to see what would happen if a pro team really, really took a hard line against fakes.

Not allowing people into the stadium wearing or even possessing fakes, not allowing players to sign fakes, not allowing vendors to sell fakes near the stadium or at team sponsored events, like their fan fests. It sure would be interesting to see how many people would be turned away or would have to surrender their fakes to be allowed in the stadium on a game day. THAT would make the news and draw some real attention to the issue, and it might be worth the possible PR hit to try it if you could spin the media attention the right way and have them cover the anti-American Chinese counterfeit angle rather than have the issue become the greedy team angle.

I'd guess this will not happen because the teams know the PR would be bad. Look at the response to the recording industry...people think they have the right to pirate music. Look at this board, populated in large part by people that "get it", and most are OK with IP theft. I think the general public would rationalize this the same way it does the music thing. Most people just think it's OK to steal as long as they are not walking out of a store with merchandise under their jackets.

I think the leagues/teams understand this and will never take that hard of a line. Plus I don't think it would be good for long-term attendance if they piss fans off by turning them away at the gate. Particularly when most fans don't even realize the "deal" they got was on an illegal jersey. Even those that don't think of the counterfeiting as OK would certainly think that their ignorance of what they bought should not cause them to get turned away at the gate. The amount of money a fan spends at the game is not worth forgoing.

I think the best a team can really do is to try to publicize this and hope a decent proportion of the fanbase will "get it". And, if they are so inclined, the Canadiens' "turn in" program.

[spyboy1]

I'd guess this will not happen because the teams know the PR would be bad. Look at the response to the recording industry...people think they have the right to pirate music. Look at this board, populated in large part by people that "get it", and most are OK with IP theft. I think the general public would rationalize this the same way it does the music thing. Most people just think it's OK to steal as long as they are not walking out of a store with merchandise under their jackets.

I think the leagues/teams understand this and will never take that hard of a line. Plus I don't think it would be good for long-term attendance if they piss fans off by turning them away at the gate. Particularly when most fans don't even realize the "deal" they got was on an illegal jersey. Even those that don't think of the counterfeiting as OK would certainly think that their ignorance of what they bought should not cause them to get turned away at the gate. The amount of money a fan spends at the game is not worth forgoing.

I think the best a team can really do is to try to publicize this and hope a decent proportion of the fanbase will "get it". And, if they are so inclined, the Canadiens' "turn in" program.

Nice post. I don't think the teams should turn the fans away at the gate, but just like some arenas won't let you bring in a "professional" camera, it sure would be fun to see them announce a week ahead of time that they are not getting in wearing a fake jersey and make them take it back to the car before they get in.

If they did do that, a large number of people would be outed for having bought unsuspecting relatives fakes who didn't know they had been given one. We sure had that come up a lot at the store last year.

I am surprised more teams have not done anything to educate their fans the way Montreal did in some way, any way at all.

[OnWis97]

Nice post. I don't think the teams should turn the fans away at the gate, but just like some arenas won't let you bring in a "professional" camera, it sure would be fun to see them announce a week ahead of time that they are not getting in wearing a fake jersey and make them take it back to the car before they get in.

If they did do that, a large number of people would be outed for having bought unsuspecting relatives fakes who didn't know they had been given one. We sure had that come up a lot at the store last year.

Not being allowed to bring something in has always been a fear, as I show up to most games via public transportation. Like if I am coming from work with an umbrella or something...

Anyway, this may be feasible but I think the teams would have to promote the heck out of it so as to not catch people by surprise. They may even have to have a "coat check" system where the fans can get it on the way out, as opposed to confiscating. The bottom line is that people feel they are paying a lot to go to the game and that they paid their hard-earned money for the jersey, which they did not even realize was "fake".

I wonder whether one of the reasons they don't try this is that it's hard to not find enough "enforcers" that can actually tell the difference. Another problem the "enforcers" may have is the person that ruins a perfectly legit item with a sloppy customization...they may bust someone with a licensed product.

I am surprised more teams have not done anything to educate their fans the way Montreal did in some way, any way at all.

I certainly agree with you here. At the very least, get out via web posters in the pro-shop, etc. that points out 1) the differences and 2) the theft aspect, if only to get a few people to understand. I assume (but I suppose I may be wrong) that most of the people I see wearing the fakes don't really understand that they are fake/illegally-produced either because they don't understand "officially licensed", don't realize just how "off" it looks, or accept that replicas are not going to have perfect detail (which is the case often...e.g., when MLB used to have nice looking replica jerseys with one-color block #s and names for all teams).

[BlueSky]

Nice post. I don't think the teams should turn the fans away at the gate, but just like some arenas won't let you bring in a "professional" camera, it sure would be fun to see them announce a week ahead of time that they are not getting in wearing a fake jersey and make them take it back to the car before they get in.

If they did do that, a large number of people would be outed for having bought unsuspecting relatives fakes who didn't know they had been given one. We sure had that come up a lot at the store last year.

Not being allowed to bring something in has always been a fear, as I show up to most games via public transportation. Like if I am coming from work with an umbrella or something...

Anyway, this may be feasible but I think the teams would have to promote the heck out of it so as to not catch people by surprise. They may even have to have a "coat check" system where the fans can get it on the way out, as opposed to confiscating. The bottom line is that people feel they are paying a lot to go to the game and that they paid their hard-earned money for the jersey, which they did not even realize was "fake".

I wonder whether one of the reasons they don't try this is that it's hard to not find enough "enforcers" that can actually tell the difference. Another problem the "enforcers" may have is the person that ruins a perfectly legit item with a sloppy customization...they may bust someone with a licensed product.

I am surprised more teams have not done anything to educate their fans the way Montreal did in some way, any way at all.

I certainly agree with you here. At the very least, get out via web posters in the pro-shop, etc. that points out 1) the differences and 2) the theft aspect, if only to get a few people to understand. I assume (but I suppose I may be wrong) that most of the people I see wearing the fakes don't really understand that they are fake/illegally-produced either because they don't understand "officially licensed", don't realize just how "off" it looks, or accept that replicas are not going to have perfect detail (which is the case often...e.g., when MLB used to have nice looking replica jerseys with one-color block #s and names for all teams).

That's a naive point of view. Most just don't care when it saves them $100-200 over an authentic. I also think the NFL at least (and its member teams) are unlikely to mount such a campaign because someone in the media would surely tear down the price of a jersey to show the profit margin. The inevitable backlash against the ridiculously high prices they charge for authentics when the NFL is raking in billions would not be good PR for the league or the teams. Can you imagine some reporter walking into a place that's probably right down the block from where the fakes are made and talking about how the people making your authentic Tom Brady jersey are making $1.50 a day, if they make their quota? That may be an exaggeration, but who knows?

They're already flailing around about how to get more people to the stadium on game day and seem unable to grasp that charging $100+ for nosebleed tickets and $30-50 for parking isn't the way to start. The last thing they need or want is bad press on merchandise pricing.

Are people who buy fakes depriving the league of revenue if, had they not bought a fake, they woudn't have bought a jersey at all? If so, how?

[BBTV]

Could Pittsburgh be "going all Philadelphia" on us?

You mean getting dentists and jobs?

[charger77]

Nice post. I don't think the teams should turn the fans away at the gate, but just like some arenas won't let you bring in a "professional" camera, it sure would be fun to see them announce a week ahead of time that they are not getting in wearing a fake jersey and make them take it back to the car before they get in.

If they did do that, a large number of people would be outed for having bought unsuspecting relatives fakes who didn't know they had been given one. We sure had that come up a lot at the store last year.

Not being allowed to bring something in has always been a fear, as I show up to most games via public transportation. Like if I am coming from work with an umbrella or something...

Anyway, this may be feasible but I think the teams would have to promote the heck out of it so as to not catch people by surprise. They may even have to have a "coat check" system where the fans can get it on the way out, as opposed to confiscating. The bottom line is that people feel they are paying a lot to go to the game and that they paid their hard-earned money for the jersey, which they did not even realize was "fake".

I wonder whether one of the reasons they don't try this is that it's hard to not find enough "enforcers" that can actually tell the difference. Another problem the "enforcers" may have is the person that ruins a perfectly legit item with a sloppy customization...they may bust someone with a licensed product.

I am surprised more teams have not done anything to educate their fans the way Montreal did in some way, any way at all.

I certainly agree with you here. At the very least, get out via web posters in the pro-shop, etc. that points out 1) the differences and 2) the theft aspect, if only to get a few people to understand. I assume (but I suppose I may be wrong) that most of the people I see wearing the fakes don't really understand that they are fake/illegally-produced either because they don't understand "officially licensed", don't realize just how "off" it looks, or accept that replicas are not going to have perfect detail (which is the case often...e.g., when MLB used to have nice looking replica jerseys with one-color block #s and names for all teams).

That's a naive point of view. Most just don't care when it saves them $100-200 over an authentic. I also think the NFL at least (and its member teams) are unlikely to mount such a campaign because someone in the media would surely tear down the price of a jersey to show the profit margin. The inevitable backlash against the ridiculously high prices they charge for authentics when the NFL is raking in billions would not be good PR for the league or the teams. Can you imagine some reporter walking into a place that's probably right down the block from where the fakes are made and talking about how the people making your authentic Tom Brady jersey are making $1.50 a day, if they make their quota? That may be an exaggeration, but who knows?

They're already flailing around about how to get more people to the stadium on game day and seem unable to grasp that charging $100+ for nosebleed tickets and $30-50 for parking isn't the way to start. The last thing they need or want is bad press on merchandise pricing.

Are people who buy fakes depriving the league of revenue if, had they not bought a fake, they woudn't have bought a jersey at all? If so, how?

Opportunity cost. The money spent on a fake could have gone to a shirt etc... at NFL.com or at the stadium.

[Morgan33]

Im curious did the NHL ever have problems with counterfeiters when the CCM 6100 and 550 were the standard? Don't get me wrong I am not for one second trying to justify the criminal actions of counterfeiters or the people who knowingly buy them but this whole debacle does seem like bad karma for Reebok's cheap, parasitic business tactics.

Before they made the Edge uniform the standard, you could buy Replica's of much higher quality, with fully embroidered logos in the price range of 100-110 dollars. Now you pay $130 for a light cheaply made rag with plastic shoulder logos that literally falls apart after only a few washes.

But as I have said before if you don't want to pay $130 for a cheaply made replica. Don't. But paying around $50 or whatever the counterfeiters are charging for an even cheaper product solves nothing. Buy the 6100 or 550 jerseys. I've been a jersey collector for over ten years and I can safely say that the only good thing to come out of the Reebok Edge debacle is the fact that I can get CCM jerseys for much less money. I've gotten many mint condition Authentic jerseys from pre-2007 for the same cost of a Counterfeit Edge. This way you get high quality products for less money without having to resort to supporting criminals. Its win, win.

Like I said before, if your upset with what Reebok is charging for their products, show them by boycotting the Edge Uniform System all together.

[larrypep]

Isn't this stretching it just a bit?

LMAO on this one.

[final_sun]

Im curious did the NHL ever have problems with counterfeiters when the CCM 6100 and 550 were the standard? Don't get me wrong I am not for one second trying to justify the criminal actions of counterfeiters or the people who knowingly buy them but this whole debacle does seem like bad karma for Reebok's cheap, parasitic business tactics.

Before they made the Edge uniform the standard, you could buy Replica's of much higher quality, with fully embroidered logos in the price range of 100-110 dollars. Now you pay $130 for a light cheaply made rag with plastic shoulder logos that literally falls apart after only a few washes.

Pre-Edge the jerseys were made in Canada. The knockoffs didn't show up until they moved production to Asia, jacked up the prices (the 550s were $90 weren't they?), significantly lowered the quality, and introduced the worst uniform designs in any sport. I don't own any counterfeits and don't plan to, but every lost sale for Reebok is, in my opinion, well deserved.

[BlueSky]

Nice post. I don't think the teams should turn the fans away at the gate, but just like some arenas won't let you bring in a "professional" camera, it sure would be fun to see them announce a week ahead of time that they are not getting in wearing a fake jersey and make them take it back to the car before they get in.

If they did do that, a large number of people would be outed for having bought unsuspecting relatives fakes who didn't know they had been given one. We sure had that come up a lot at the store last year.

Not being allowed to bring something in has always been a fear, as I show up to most games via public transportation. Like if I am coming from work with an umbrella or something...

Anyway, this may be feasible but I think the teams would have to promote the heck out of it so as to not catch people by surprise. They may even have to have a "coat check" system where the fans can get it on the way out, as opposed to confiscating. The bottom line is that people feel they are paying a lot to go to the game and that they paid their hard-earned money for the jersey, which they did not even realize was "fake".

I wonder whether one of the reasons they don't try this is that it's hard to not find enough "enforcers" that can actually tell the difference. Another problem the "enforcers" may have is the person that ruins a perfectly legit item with a sloppy customization...they may bust someone with a licensed product.

I am surprised more teams have not done anything to educate their fans the way Montreal did in some way, any way at all.

I certainly agree with you here. At the very least, get out via web posters in the pro-shop, etc. that points out 1) the differences and 2) the theft aspect, if only to get a few people to understand. I assume (but I suppose I may be wrong) that most of the people I see wearing the fakes don't really understand that they are fake/illegally-produced either because they don't understand "officially licensed", don't realize just how "off" it looks, or accept that replicas are not going to have perfect detail (which is the case often...e.g., when MLB used to have nice looking replica jerseys with one-color block #s and names for all teams).

That's a naive point of view. Most just don't care when it saves them $100-200 over an authentic. I also think the NFL at least (and its member teams) are unlikely to mount such a campaign because someone in the media would surely tear down the price of a jersey to show the profit margin. The inevitable backlash against the ridiculously high prices they charge for authentics when the NFL is raking in billions would not be good PR for the league or the teams. Can you imagine some reporter walking into a place that's probably right down the block from where the fakes are made and talking about how the people making your authentic Tom Brady jersey are making $1.50 a day, if they make their quota? That may be an exaggeration, but who knows?

They're already flailing around about how to get more people to the stadium on game day and seem unable to grasp that charging $100+ for nosebleed tickets and $30-50 for parking isn't the way to start. The last thing they need or want is bad press on merchandise pricing.

Are people who buy fakes depriving the league of revenue if, had they not bought a fake, they woudn't have bought a jersey at all? If so, how?

Opportunity cost. The money spent on a fake could have gone to a shirt etc... at NFL.com or at the stadium.

Or a car payment.

[ram29jackson]

I dont understand the anti-knock off argument. If it looks decent and is cheaper, thats always good. Only a fool pays 3oo dollars for a jersey. I'm not wearing it to a wedding.......? I aint paying that much.

that being said- for Christmas ,I did get a real Mitchell & Ness for under $50 from C2Cjersey.

A green replica Nitschke-

I thought it would be a knock off, but when I got it. everything was perfect and the Mitchell N Ness tags are on it.

Basically, this is probably the company that makes the Jerseys for Mitchell n Ness and must sell a few on the side since American Laws dont apply to them. I am pretty sure I have the genuine article. And if I dont, so what ? it is exactly how a Mitchell n Ness is made. way better than those cheap nfl replicas with iron on numbers that are $60 or more and dont last.

[Brass]

I thought it would be a knock off, but when I got it. everything was perfect and the Mitchell N Ness tags are on it.

This has the NHL tags on the sleeve. Must mean it's real, right?

[ram29jackson]

I thought it would be a knock off, but when I got it. everything was perfect and the Mitchell N Ness tags are on it.

This has the NHL tags on the sleeve. Must mean it's real, right?

whats your point ? what I have is an actual Mitchell N Ness product. I got it from the people that make it for them without paying the rediculuos price from Mitchell N Ness.

[Brass]

I thought it would be a knock off, but when I got it. everything was perfect and the Mitchell N Ness tags are on it.

This has the NHL tags on the sleeve. Must mean it's real, right?

whats your point ? what I have is an actual Mitchell N Ness product. I got it from the people that make it for them without paying the rediculuos price from Mitchell N Ness.

My point is that you got the jersey from a website which advertises nothing but fake jerseys. Then, you ordered something and assumed it was authentic because it had the "Mitchell and Ness" tags. Just because it has tags, doesn't mean it's real. I'm sorry to say, but your jersey is most likely fake and you'll soon see exactly what you paid for.

[TheClevelandHockey]

This one had me laughing for a while

Thank goodness he never had to wear those.

Care to explain why that's odd? I thought that's how the early '00 Oilers jerseys looked before this hard-on for throwbacks.

[nash61]

This one had me laughing for a while

Thank goodness he never had to wear those.

Care to explain why that's odd? I thought that's how the early '00 Oilers jerseys looked before this hard-on for throwbacks.

Gretzky only wore these. He left the Oilers even before the pre-Edge navy jerseys were used.

[nash61]

This one's a beauty. They've obviously never heard of rule 14-d in China

[TheClevelandHockey]

This one had me laughing for a while

Thank goodness he never had to wear those.

Care to explain why that's odd? I thought that's how the early '00 Oilers jerseys looked before this hard-on for throwbacks.

Gretzky only wore these. He left the Oilers even before the pre-Edge navy jerseys were used.

Oh well, if that's it, then that's fine. I like the newer style a bit better. (I'm pretty bad but I knew when Gretzky played, lol.) If Cleveland had more of a history, I'd get an older name on a newer style jersey. (Like putting Bower or Cheevers on a LEM jersey)

[guest23]

Nice post. I don't think the teams should turn the fans away at the gate, but just like some arenas won't let you bring in a "professional" camera, it sure would be fun to see them announce a week ahead of time that they are not getting in wearing a fake jersey and make them take it back to the car before they get in.

If they did do that, a large number of people would be outed for having bought unsuspecting relatives fakes who didn't know they had been given one. We sure had that come up a lot at the store last year.

Not being allowed to bring something in has always been a fear, as I show up to most games via public transportation. Like if I am coming from work with an umbrella or something...

Anyway, this may be feasible but I think the teams would have to promote the heck out of it so as to not catch people by surprise. They may even have to have a "coat check" system where the fans can get it on the way out, as opposed to confiscating. The bottom line is that people feel they are paying a lot to go to the game and that they paid their hard-earned money for the jersey, which they did not even realize was "fake".

I wonder whether one of the reasons they don't try this is that it's hard to not find enough "enforcers" that can actually tell the difference. Another problem the "enforcers" may have is the person that ruins a perfectly legit item with a sloppy customization...they may bust someone with a licensed product.

I am surprised more teams have not done anything to educate their fans the way Montreal did in some way, any way at all.

I certainly agree with you here. At the very least, get out via web posters in the pro-shop, etc. that points out 1) the differences and 2) the theft aspect, if only to get a few people to understand. I assume (but I suppose I may be wrong) that most of the people I see wearing the fakes don't really understand that they are fake/illegally-produced either because they don't understand "officially licensed", don't realize just how "off" it looks, or accept that replicas are not going to have perfect detail (which is the case often...e.g., when MLB used to have nice looking replica jerseys with one-color block #s and names for all teams).

That's a naive point of view. Most just don't care when it saves them $100-200 over an authentic. I also think the NFL at least (and its member teams) are unlikely to mount such a campaign because someone in the media would surely tear down the price of a jersey to show the profit margin. The inevitable backlash against the ridiculously high prices they charge for authentics when the NFL is raking in billions would not be good PR for the league or the teams. Can you imagine some reporter walking into a place that's probably right down the block from where the fakes are made and talking about how the people making your authentic Tom Brady jersey are making $1.50 a day, if they make their quota? That may be an exaggeration, but who knows?

They're already flailing around about how to get more people to the stadium on game day and seem unable to grasp that charging $100+ for nosebleed tickets and $30-50 for parking isn't the way to start. The last thing they need or want is bad press on merchandise pricing.

Are people who buy fakes depriving the league of revenue if, had they not bought a fake, they woudn't have bought a jersey at all? If so, how?

Opportunity cost. The money spent on a fake could have gone to a shirt etc... at NFL.com or at the stadium.

Or a car payment.

I like the idea but who is going to be the judge of whether a jersey is a counterfeit?..some of the walmart/jc penney level replicas look just as fake with their shoddy screen jobs, truncated striping, and omitted details etc.

the leagues reap what they sow...first off any business that offshores production is setting themselves up since intellectual property laws are not respected overseas...next is the fact that by continuing to jack up prices for replicas and authentics and in many instances sacrificing quality for the sake of margins they created a market for a product that is better than an official replica but does not have the accuracy of an authentic or even inaccuracies...there is a sweet spot in pricing that the leagues have not yet found...unfortunately what's screwing them and keeping the market for bootlegs going is not the cost to manufacture but the multitude of royalties that must be paid our to the various parties.