Qatar 2022 World Cup Discussion

[DG_ThenNowForever]

37 minutes ago, Red Comet said:

They’ve been saying that for half a century now and it still hasn’t happened. And before anyone brings up Hispanics, recall that we’ve had plenty of Central/Eastern and Southern European immigration where soccer is also the unquestioned king and their descendants now follow baseball, football, basketball and then soccer. 
 

I’ll believe it when I see it.

 

It's not going to happen in the US. Especially not after the NFL successfully hurdled the whole concussion thing a few years back. If that didn't slow the league down, nothing will. 

 

Soccer could overtake the NBA and NFL though, especially if MLS (or a new league) got big, big money and signed all of the best talent in the world. There's nothing saying the best leagues have to be in Europe if we can get more money here.

 

But American football isn't going anywhere.

[MJWalker45]

46 minutes ago, Red Comet said:

They’ve been saying that for half a century now and it still hasn’t happened. And before anyone brings up Hispanics, recall that we’ve had plenty of Central/Eastern and Southern European immigration where soccer is also the unquestioned king and their descendants now follow baseball, football, basketball and then soccer. 
 

I’ll believe it when I see it.

I think a bigger reason soccer hasn't made that big jump is the resistance to open up MLS to full free agency, and ditching the salary cap. It's also saved the league which could have gone completely under by 2006 if they didn't drop Miami and Tampa Bay, and then later Chivas USA. IT's the biggest reason it took until this year for a MLS team to win Concacaf Champions League. If US teams were able to legitimately have a chance to bring in top level players like Mbappe, Neymar and Haaling, you would see more eyes on the league, less teams using turf fields and NYCFC would probably not be playing in Yankee Stadium, even if it meant stadium sharing with NY Red Bulls until they got their own stadium. Imagine how big that Apple TV deal would be with players of that stature in the league? 

[Digby]

Soccer's already only behind the NFL and NBA (and probably CFB) in American television viewership... if you're looking at Liga MX and the English Premier League, not MLS.

[UnclearInitial]

Got to think it’s between LA and NY for the final, with the loser hosting one semifinal+ the opening match and Mexico City the other. Will Canada host any knockout stage games? Can’t see them hosting more than a round of 16, probably in Vancouver 

[TBGKon]

28 minutes ago, UnclearInitial said:

Got to think it’s between LA and NY for the final, with the loser hosting one semifinal+ the opening match and Mexico City the other. Will Canada host any knockout stage games? Can’t see them hosting more than a round of 16, probably in Vancouver 

It's a 32 team knockout stage, so there are more games to go around.  Vancouver could get one, but not sure about Toronto with a 40k capacity.

[Seadragon76]

The format should be easy for each city: Each one gets a group (which means three games at a site) and a First Round Knockout game. This gives each site a minimum of four games.

 

From there, you make sure that a Mexican site and a Canadian site (probably Mexico City and Vancouver) get at least two more games - a Round of 16 game and a Quarterfinal.

[TBGKon]

17 minutes ago, Seadragon76 said:

The format should be easy for each city: Each one gets a group (which means three games at a site) and a First Round Knockout game. This gives each site a minimum of four games.

 

From there, you make sure that a Mexican site and a Canadian site (probably Mexico City and Vancouver) get at least two more games - a Round of 16 game and a Quarterfinal.

I dont know if they'd fix a group to one set location, but it does make sense.  At the bare minimum each site would have 3 games played, despite who the teams are.

[Brian in Boston]

On 6/17/2022 at 10:57 AM, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

It's not going to happen in the US. Especially not after the NFL successfully hurdled the whole concussion thing a few years back. If that didn't slow the league down, nothing will. 

 

... American football isn't going anywhere.

The future of American football on the professional level has less to do with how successfully the NFL handled "the whole concussion thing a few years back" than it does with how said issue is dealt with at the youth through high school levels of competition moving forward. Further, gridiron football has always been amongst the most expensive of sports in which to launch and maintain a program (equipment costs, the size of rosters, etc.) at the youth club and interscholastic level.

American gridiron football's prospects for future survival are linked to parental concerns over the safety of the sport, as well as whether or not youth athletic organizations and elementary through high school athletic departments feel the cost of maintaining a program is a worthwhile expenditure. If participation in American gridiron football declines at the youth through high school levels, then it is going to eventually have an impact on the quality of the product at the professional level.

What will the NFL be willing to do to step-up and protect its status as the top-dog amongst major pro sports in America? We'll see.

[Brian in Boston]

2 hours ago, Seadragon76 said:

The format should be easy for each city: Each one gets a group (which means three games at a site) and a First Round Knockout game. This gives each site a minimum of four games.

 

From there, you make sure that a Mexican site and a Canadian site (probably Mexico City and Vancouver) get at least two more games - a Round of 16 game and a Quarterfinal.

My understanding was that FIFA and the United Bid Committee has settled upon a schedule that would see 60 matches contested in the United States, with 10 matches each played in Canada and Mexico. The format you propose wouldn't square with the 60-10-10 split.

Of course, they could ultimately end up moving away from the schedule they were said to be eyeing. Time will tell.

[MJWalker45]

I think that was based on 3 sites in Canada  and Mexico so the numbers could skew. 

[Sec19Row53]

On 6/17/2022 at 1:03 PM, MJWalker45 said:

I think a bigger reason soccer hasn't made that big jump is the resistance to open up MLS to full free agency, and ditching the salary cap.

Speaking as someone who isn't a fan of soccer (nothing against it - it's just not my thing), that sounds like something that may appeal to soccer fans, but non-fans won't care.

[MJWalker45]

3 hours ago, Sec19Row53 said:

Speaking as someone who isn't a fan of soccer (nothing against it - it's just not my thing), that sounds like something that may appeal to soccer fans, but non-fans won't care.

Most won't, but the ones that like to talk down use the lack of big names as a way to dunk on the league.

[Sec19Row53]

5 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

Most won't, but the ones that like to talk down use the lack of big names as a way to dunk on the league.

So if they use this to dunk on the sport, how will making that change help to grow the sport? That was what I was disagreeing about in your earlier post, not whether certain non-fans dunk on it for whatever reason.

[The_Admiral]

Chicago doesn't get World Cup soccer but Atlanta and an exurb of Boston do. We just can't stop losing here.

[MJWalker45]

9 hours ago, the admiral said:

Chicago doesn't get World Cup soccer but Atlanta and an exurb of Boston do. We just can't stop losing here.

Chicago doesn't want to pay for the privilege of giving FIFA all money earned at the stadium. A few other cities didn't like the requirements so I can't hold it against them. ESPN talking heads were laughable because they complained none of the stadiums used in qualifying this go around are included. Since almost none of them have the minimum capacity that wasn't happening anyways. 

 

9 hours ago, Sec19Row53 said:

So if they use this to dunk on the sport, how will making that change help to grow the sport? That was what I was disagreeing about in your earlier post, not whether certain non-fans dunk on it for whatever reason.

If they are getting the younger stars, and not those towards the end of their careers you get more attention from the likes of BBC, Sky and more money from ESPN and Fox for games not covered by the new AT&T contract. Will it silence the guys that like to feel superior about NBA, MLB, and NFL? Nope. But it would cause those that think the MLS is a retirement league to re-evaluate that position.

[LMU]

Yeah, FIFA wasn’t thinking about this one.

 

 

[MJWalker45]

On 6/17/2022 at 2:38 PM, TBGKon said:

I dont know if they'd fix a group to one set location, but it does make sense.  At the bare minimum each site would have 3 games played, despite who the teams are.

A group is only three matches instead of six now so it's possible, but I'd think the Mexicans would be pissed as hell if they don't get to see El Tri in either Guadalajara or Monterrey in addition to Azteca. They already get pissed that they hardly play in Mexico unless it's in qualifying. 

22 hours ago, LMU said:

Yeah, FIFA wasn’t thinking about this one.

 

 

They, FIFA, told LGBTQ+ fans to cut out that type of activity at the tournament. I'm not really surprised to see this crap floated around as well. 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/dec/14/fifa-boss-gay-fans-no-sex

It was Blatter who said it, but if he hadn't I'm sure Infantino would have dribbled this out the side of his mouth too. 

https://www.marca.com/en/world-cup/2022/06/21/62b1b8e446163f7e7a8b45af.html

The article says a seven year prison sentence.  I'd like to know how they plan to check on that stuff. No ring, straight to jail? 

 

 

 

[The_Admiral]

"Pooping in instagram models' mouths for me but not for thee," I see.

[Digby]

16 hours ago, MJWalker45 said:

A group is only three matches instead of six now so it's possible, but I'd think the Mexicans would be pissed as hell if they don't get to see El Tri in either Guadalajara or Monterrey in addition to Azteca. They already get pissed that they hardly play in Mexico unless it's in qualifying. 

On 2022-06-20 at 5:36 PM, LMU said:

 

Ah yes, I keep forgetting about the new, terrible structure of the World Cup we'll have in 2026. Seems like there's barely a point to a group stage if it's just three teams.

[MJWalker45]

16 minutes ago, Digby said:

 

Ah yes, I keep forgetting about the new, terrible structure of the World Cup we'll have in 2026. Seems like there's barely a point to a group stage if it's just three teams.

I think you'll also see the tournament basically stuck between Europe, Asia and North America from now on. FIFA needing so many venues within a set amount of space would require massive amounts of highway infrastructure between multiple countries that I don't think would happen in South America due to the amount of deforestation that would be required. I also can't see Brazil and Argentina ripping down some of their older "iconic" stadiums when it may be cheaper, and safer, to build new stadiums. But then you run into the issues of the favelas getting cleared out to build them. China will probably host 2030 with England dropping out to focus on Euros 2028, so England or a combined European country bid would likely host 2034.