Minor League Hockey Shake-up...coming

[BeerGuyJordan]

19 hours ago, Cosmic said:

This is a few years ago now, but the Sabres bought the Amerks for $5M. They weren't even for sale; $5M was the "can't walk away" price for a mid-drawing AHL team. That tells me there's probably not a ton of money to be made owning an AHL team, maybe with a few exceptions. 

Based on what I've seen from numbers, it looks like a team needs to hit, on average, about the 5,200 average attendance figure to be turning a profit. This is, by no means, official or complete, but based on what I could find on lease/city payments, salaries, franchuse fees, NHL salary assistance, front office salaries, marketing, advertising, merchandising, ticket sales, travel costs, etc. If anyone has a more solid figure, I'd be interested to see what was done differently, since mine is only based on about 5 hours of searching.

 

Another fact worth noting is that the unexpected buyout of the Amerks came at the end of their lowest attendance season since 1978-79. That season (10-11), along with the two previous ones, were Rochester's three lowest in attendance since 1981. $5 million for a storied franchise that was floundering and the 6th lowest attendance in the league (with indicators looking like it was only going to get worse) seems like a deal worth taking. It isn't really a deal worth judging the value of AHL teams, in general, with.

[Gothamite]

On 6/20/2016 at 4:06 PM, BeerGuyJordan said:

You never said maximiing profit before, I wouldn't say any team has that as the AHL franchise's goal. Development comes first, pretty much exclusively. For a lot of teams, brand growth & fan investment comes next. But no team is fine with not making a profit.

 

Yeah, I think they are.  I would venture a guess that most owners are just fine with losing some money on the AHL club If they're happy with the development aspect.   The losses are a tax write-off, and developing new players is potentially so lucrative that expenses along the way are just the cost of doing business.

[rams80]

6 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

Yeah, I think they are.  I would venture a guess that most owners are just fine with losing some money on the AHL club If they're happy with the development aspect.   The losses are a tax write-off, and developing new players is potentially so lucrative that expenses along the way are just the cost of doing business.

 

And on that note, please look at the D-League's business model.

[Burmy]

Surprised nobody's tried speculating on where Vegas' AHL affiliate will go (all signs indicate that the AHL will expand)

We KNOW it's gonna be out West...Reno seems like the most obvious pick, but they still can't get an arena built (an ECHL franchise has been dormant for thirteen years waiting on it).  Other possibilities include Fresno, Sacramento or Salt Lake City...

[Josh.0]

1 hour ago, MBurmy said:

Surprised nobody's tried speculating on where Vegas' AHL affiliate will go (all signs indicate that the AHL will expand)

We KNOW it's gonna be out West...Reno seems like the most obvious pick, but they still can't get an arena built (an ECHL franchise has been dormant for thirteen years waiting on it).  Other possibilities include Fresno, Sacramento or Salt Lake City...

 

Probably Fresno --- but, man I'd love for the Grizzlies to be back in the AHL.

[TBGKon]

With what I am hearing, Utah likes the ECHL. 

[Geoff]

Same reasoning that kept Fort Wayne out of the ECHL for so long is why Utah prefers the Coast to the A: more control over hockey operations/player personnel.

[Burmy]

Anybody imagined what the logistics would be renovating one of Reno's existing arena's to include a hockey rink? (either the Lawlor or the Reno Events Center?)

[BeerGuyJordan]

5 hours ago, MBurmy said:

Surprised nobody's tried speculating on where Vegas' AHL affiliate will go (all signs indicate that the AHL will expand)

We KNOW it's gonna be out West...Reno seems like the most obvious pick, but they still can't get an arena built (an ECHL franchise has been dormant for thirteen years waiting on it).  Other possibilities include Fresno, Sacramento or Salt Lake City...

Reno really makes the most sense: close by, and gives locals an investment in Foley's BlackAceRollerStrippers. If they can't make it happen, and assuming it is in the West, I could see any you suggested, plus maybe Albuquerque (1.5 hour flight) or Colorado Springs (1.75).

 

If he can't get Fresno, Foley may sacrifice a little proximity to go with a city that's a bit more "traditional hockey territory." With him being so hands on, and the risks posed with the Vegas market, I would think he'd want an AHL team that won't be a drain on Vegas's resources.

[dfwabel]

6 hours ago, MBurmy said:

Surprised nobody's tried speculating on where Vegas' AHL affiliate will go (all signs indicate that the AHL will expand)

We KNOW it's gonna be out West...Reno seems like the most obvious pick, but they still can't get an arena built (an ECHL franchise has been dormant for thirteen years waiting on it).  Other possibilities include Fresno, Sacramento or Salt Lake City...

 

5 hours ago, Josh.0 said:

 

Probably Fresno --- but, man I'd love for the Grizzlies to be back in the AHL.

 

33 minutes ago, BeerGuyJordan said:

Reno really makes the most sense: close by, and gives locals an investment in Foley's BlackAceRollerStrippers. If they can't make it happen, and assuming it is in the West, I could see any you suggested, plus maybe Albuquerque (1.5 hour flight) or Colorado Springs (1.75).

 

If he can't get Fresno, Foley may sacrifice a little proximity to go with a city that's a bit more "traditional hockey territory." With him being so hands on, and the risks posed with the Vegas market, I would think he'd want an AHL team that won't be a drain on Vegas's resources.

I really don't see Fresno as an option at all, outside of proximity and an Allegiant Air flight away.

 

From January 2014

 

If the team wants a subsidy, the city of Fresno just got out of their own severe economic issues and the councilman who got reforms passed is running for mayor.  They have a lot more policies in place to avoid getting fleeced yet again. Plus, getting weekend dates at the SaveMart Center and parking revenues there is a non-starter. 

[TBGKon]

Could Colorado Springs be a possibility?  I know the arena where Colorado College plays is there, but don't know for sure.

[BeerGuyJordan]

19 minutes ago, AstroBull21 said:

Could Colorado Springs be a possibility?  I know the arena where Colorado College plays is there, but don't know for sure.

Broadmoor WA seats about 7,700 IIRC.

[nash61]

Lots of chatter that Belleville is getting hockey back. Not sure if that's OHL, ECHL, or AHL, but an announcement is expected within a week.

 

 

[Geoff]

Don't forget that Colorado Springs is actually home to two D-I hockey teams. CC and Air Force. I think scheduling to avoid too many overlapping dates would be damn near, if not completely, impossible.

[JackieMoon]

I could see the Colorado Eagles move up and become their team.

[TBGKon]

11 hours ago, sohiosportsfreak said:

I could see the Colorado Eagles move up and become their team.

If this happens, the Avs would be all over it, which opens up San Antonio for Vegas.

 

It could work.

[RyanMcD29]

Las Vegas' AHL affiliate would fit in perfectly in Watertown, New Yo.. [/beaten to death by baseball bats for bringing up the "Every minor league hockey team should be in Upstate NY" joke again]

[BeerGuyJordan]

On 6/30/2016 at 9:29 PM, sohiosportsfreak said:

I could see the Colorado Eagles move up and become their team.

I could only see this happening if they partnered with the Avs, who wouldn't want someone else's AAA affiliate in their Metro.

 

Before someone brings up the Chicago Wolves, the 'Hawks pretty much sell out every game and have a greater metro area of 9.5 million. The Avs/Denver are nowhere close, on either factor.

[BeerGuyJordan]

On 6/30/2016 at 6:30 PM, Geoff said:

Don't forget that Colorado Springs is actually home to two D-I hockey teams. CC and Air Force. I think scheduling to avoid too many overlapping dates would be damn near, if not completely, impossible.

AF plays in their own arena, and isn't really a significant draw, for fans. I don't think they would be taken too heavily into consideration for scheduling. A potential team would likely share an arena with/have to schedule around CC, and lots of places anchor multiple teams, even in the same sport. It's absolutely doable.

[tigerslionspistonshabs]

On 6/30/2016 at 11:33 AM, nash61 said:

Lots of chatter that Belleville is getting hockey back. Not sure if that's OHL, ECHL, or AHL, but an announcement is expected within a week.

 

 

I`m fairly certain that they were ``promised`` a future team when the Bulls left for Hamilton. I think it was contingent on them replacing their arena.