the admiral

NHL Anti-Thread: Bad Business Decision Aggregator

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bosrs1    645
25 minutes ago, the admiral said:

maybe not now :(

 

Yeah I had the same thought. How did the Rockets arena fair anyway?

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the admiral    10,240

The entire city is flat and covered in pavement; I can't imagine anywhere fared well.

 

Don't drain the wetlands, maaaaaaaaaaaan.

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goalieboy82    384
On 7/18/2017 at 2:25 PM, the admiral said:

Houston, a city full of people who used to live somewhere else with a large black/Hispanic native population and exurban sprawl out the ass, has the profile of an absolutely terrible NHL market. I'm sure the league couldn't be more excited about being there.

 

6 hours ago, the admiral said:

maybe not now :(

 

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bosrs1    645

Possibly interesting news out of San Diego this morning. The local sports talk station 1090 broke that later this week there's going to be an announcement of a new NBA/NHL ready arena going up in San Diego's east village. The privately financed arena on 80 acres of already acquired land will initially house an expansion NLL team (and possibly one or both of the current tenants of San Diego's existing 51 year old public arena the Gulls of the AHL and Sockers of the MASL). But the long term goal by the owner of the arena will be to acquire an NBA team and possibly an NHL team (given San Diego's runaway success in the AHL). Joseph Tsai, founder of Alibaba.com and La Jolla resident is the money and drive behind the project.

 

http://www.mighty1090.com/episode/dan-sileo-a-new-arena-lacrosse-team-and-possible-nba-team-in-san-diego/

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DustDevil61    438
16 hours ago, bosrs1 said:

Possibly interesting news out of San Diego this morning. The local sports talk station 1090 broke that later this week there's going to be an announcement of a new NBA/NHL ready arena going up in San Diego's east village. The privately financed arena on 80 acres of already acquired land will initially house an expansion NLL team (and possibly one or both of the current tenants of San Diego's existing 51 year old public arena the Gulls of the AHL and Sockers of the MASL). But the long term goal by the owner of the arena will be to acquire an NBA team and possibly an NHL team (given San Diego's runaway success in the AHL). Joseph Tsai, founder of Alibaba.com and La Jolla resident is the money and drive behind the project.

 

http://www.mighty1090.com/episode/dan-sileo-a-new-arena-lacrosse-team-and-possible-nba-team-in-san-diego/

 

You know what? I don't recommend most Sunbelt cities for the NHL but given their history with hockey and history of solid support (and with the right ownership/arena situation), I'd recommend San Diego (Houston too). Similar to Utah (though that's not a sunbelt locale), can't be any worse than Phoenix or Las Vegas...right?

 

Edited by DustDevil61
Can't be worse, right? Right?

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the admiral    10,240

That's too much NHL for Southern California. It would be a second Anaheim and the first one isn't setting the world on fire business-wise.

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bosrs1    645
7 minutes ago, the admiral said:

That's too much NHL for Southern California. It would be a second Anaheim and the first one isn't setting the world on fire business-wise.

 

Not sure about that. San Diego is a much different market than OC that so far has proven to be hockey crazy with the Gulls tearing it up the last two seasons. The big issues would be that the Ducks likely consider San Diego part of their extended market, hence they put the AHL Gulls in San Diego. Not sure if they have any exclusivity to that effect but they may object. That and part of why the Gulls have succeeded I suspect is because they're AHL, and not NHL. Many in their fan base, myself included, are fans of other NHL teams but root for the Gulls because they're not a competitor to our NHL sides. That dynamic would change a bit if there were suddenly an NHL team in SD.

 

But a team in San Diego could do just fine if SD were given a chance I suspect. We're currently a one team town at the top level of sports and a 0 team town for much of the NBA/NHL season.

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the admiral    10,240
25 minutes ago, bosrs1 said:

The big issues would be that the Ducks likely consider San Diego part of their extended market, hence they put the AHL Gulls in San Diego. Not sure if they have any exclusivity to that effect but they may object.

 

I don't think they could stop it any more than they could stop Las Vegas (which, come to think of it, L.A./San Diego/Anaheim/Las Vegas is REALLY too much hockey for that corner of America. That's four teams where I'd have one).

 

Also, AHL over NHL helps because NHL price points are ridiculously high in most cities.

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bosrs1    645
40 minutes ago, the admiral said:

 

I don't think they could stop it any more than they could stop Las Vegas (which, come to think of it, L.A./San Diego/Anaheim/Las Vegas is REALLY too much hockey for that corner of America. That's four teams where I'd have one).

 

Also, AHL over NHL helps because NHL price points are ridiculously high in most cities.

 

Why would you say it's too much in "that corner of America"? I mean that's like saying having teams in Philly, NJ, NY, and Boston is too many in that corner of America...

 

Admittedly Vegas was an odd choice, and we've no idea if it'll work out or not. But all 4 teams/potential teams serve different markets (or in Anaheim's case a sub-market in greater LA).

 

 

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the admiral    10,240
10 minutes ago, bosrs1 said:

Why would you say it's too much in "that corner of America"?

I've never been keen on supersaturating the American Southwest for the frozen-pond game, this is not a revelation to anyone who's read this board

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bosrs1    645
Just now, the admiral said:

I've never been keen on supersaturating the American Southwest for the frozen-pond game, this is not a revelation to anyone who's read this board

 

Guess I can understand that feeling. Particularly when the only team to now in the Southwest is the Coyotes, who continue to limp along like some sort of sick joke by Bettman. And as I said the other newbies in Vegas are a completely unknown quantity at this point.

 

That said, the two other southwestern teams (if you consider California part of the Southwest), have done remarkably well in LA and Anaheim. The California teams have never been an "issue" in the Sunbelt.

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Ice_Cap    7,591
1 hour ago, bosrs1 said:

Why would you say it's too much in "that corner of America"? I mean that's like saying having teams in Philly, NJ, NY, and Boston is too many in that corner of America...

Hockey is regional, and one of those regions has a better track record supporting NHL hockey than another. 

 

The LA teams have secured niches for themselves but they aren't runaway successes. Arizona is a joke, as you admitted. And Vegas will have the NFL in due time. Not to mention the NHL team can't even get on tv in their local market due to their own gross mismanagement. So while Vegas is still an unknown? It looks more and more like a Coyotes in making sort of situation. 

 

As far as San Diego goes? Maybe it'll work, but I'm sorry. There's no way San Diego tops Quebec City as a potential NHL market.

 

Of course the NHL will likely choose SD over QC, but the NHL makes bad business decisions on a nearly daily basis. 

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bosrs1    645
12 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

Hockey is regional, and one of those regions has a better track record supporting NHL hockey than another. 

 

The LA teams have secured niches for themselves but they aren't runaway successes. Arizona is a joke, as you admitted. And Vegas will have the NFL in due time. Not to mention the NHL team can't even get on tv in their local market due to their own gross mismanagement. So while Vegas is still an unknown? It looks more and more like a Coyotes in making sort of situation. 

 

As far as San Diego goes? Maybe it'll work, but I'm sorry. There's no way San Diego tops Quebec City as a potential NHL market.

 

Of course the NHL will likely choose SD over QC, but the NHL makes bad business decisions on a nearly daily basis. 


How is Quebec City's team doing in whatever league they have currently. Not saying it's indicative of what an NHL team will do, but I am curious. I mean it would stand to reason Quebec would do better than San Diego. But frankly San Diego's attachment to Hockey at the AHL level has taken both the team and league by surprise. They've been second only to Hershey PA now two years in a row in terms of attendance.

 

As for the other NHL teams not being runaway successes. Anaheim does have a nice niche for itself. The Kings I'd say have been a runaway success.

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Ice_Cap    7,591
36 minutes ago, bosrs1 said:

The Kings I'd say have been a runaway success.

Are the Kings really a runway success? I mean it became a running joke at how the local media kept usinsg the Sacremento Kings logo during the LA Kings' five year run atop the west. 

I'm not saying the Kings are struggling. Far from it. They're in a perfectly fine position. Just that two teams in LA probably taps what the NHL can get out of Southern California. 

 

36 minutes ago, bosrs1 said:

How is Quebec City's team doing in whatever league they have currently. Not saying it's indicative of what an NHL team will do, but I am curious. 

They were sitting pretty atop the QMJHL's attendance standings for the 2016-2017 season. They averaged 9,421 a game. 

The SD Gulls were at third in attendance in the AHL, with an average of 8,876 game. They're behind Cleveland (9,055) and Hershey (9,309). 

Not quite the surprise knockout you were expecting at the QC Ramparts' expense in "whatever league" they played in, eh? ;)

 

 

36 minutes ago, bosrs1 said:

I mean it would stand to reason Quebec would do better than San Diego. But frankly San Diego's attachment to Hockey at the AHL level has taken both the team and league by surprise.

Yes, they have. And it's admirable, certainly. 

I'm just thinking of what happened in Atlanta and Winnipeg. Where a team in an American Sunbelt metropolis was constantly in need of revenue sharing to eek along. And then how that same team went from receiving revenue sharing to contributing to it because it turned out a small Canadian city with a rabid fanbase proved more stable for the league than the beforementioned Sunbelt metropolis. 

 

Again, San Diego may work. And hey. Maybe they can finally breath life into the Coyotes. Or when the Golden Knights eventually implode. 

 

In terms of which city the NHL should be in first though? Sorry. The passion, and willingness to spend money on that passion, in QC makes it a slam dunk to everyone but the idiots running the NHL. Who are still scared for small Canadian cities for whatever reason. 

 

To be frank? The NHL needs to stop jerking its loyal fans around. And going to SD over QC, after going to LV over QC, would just be more jerking. 

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bosrs1    645
8 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

Are the Kings really a runway success? I mean it became a running joke at how the local media kept usinsg the Sacremento Kings logo during the LA Kings' five year run atop the west. 

I'm not saying the Kings are struggling. Far from it. They're in a perfectly fine position. Just that two teams in LA probably taps what the NHL can get out of Southern California. 

 

They were sitting pretty atop the QMJHL's attendance standings for the 2016-2017 season. They averaged 9,421 a game. 

The SD Gulls were at third in attendance in the AHL, with an average of 8,876 game. They're behind Cleveland (9,055) and Hershey (9,309). 

Not quite the surprise knockout you were expecting at the QC Ramparts' expense in "whatever league" they played in, eh? ;)

 

 

Yes, they have. And it's admirable, certainly. 

I'm just thinking of what happened in Atlanta and Winnipeg. Where a team in an American Sunbelt metropolis was constantly in need of revenue sharing to eek along. And then how that same team went from receiving revenue sharing to contributing to it because it turned out a small Canadian city with a rabid fanbase proved more stable for the league than the beforementioned Sunbelt metropolis. 

 

Two teams in LA taps what you can get out of LA. Don't equate LA with the rest of SoCal. San Diego in particular is not LA. Believe me, the Chargers have found that out in spades.

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Ice_Cap    7,591
3 hours ago, bosrs1 said:

Two teams in LA taps what you can get out of LA. Don't equate LA with the rest of SoCal. San Diego in particular is not LA. Believe me, the Chargers have found that out in spades.

I'm saying the NHL should get the most out of Quebec before it gets the most out of Southern California. In terms of hockey fandom and support? The former trumps the latter.

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DustDevil61    438
5 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

I'm saying the NHL should get the most out of Quebec before it gets the most out of Southern California. In terms of hockey fandom and support? The former trumps the latter.

 

Totally agreed. My initial point is that, as far as southern markets go, San Diego is near the top of the list. Houston, too IMO. Both cities have a rather extensive history of minor-league hockey despite their location and would be miles ahead of Phoenix and Las Vegas. But compared to Quebec? That's a no-brainer.

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the admiral    10,240

I'm glad San Diego is thriving as an AHL market because it doesn't seem like Stockton and Bakersfield are, and we know San Jose2 isn't. The AHL compromised a lot of competitive integrity to make this California deal work, the least they can get out of it is a major-league city not pissing all over itself.

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bosrs1    645
10 hours ago, the admiral said:

I'm glad San Diego is thriving as an AHL market because it doesn't seem like Stockton and Bakersfield are, and we know San Jose2 isn't. The AHL compromised a lot of competitive integrity to make this California deal work, the least they can get out of it is a major-league city not pissing all over itself.

 

Stockton and Bakersfield aren't setting the world on fire like San Diego and Ontario, CA, but they're still big improvements over Adirondack and OKC in terms of interest and attendance. Definitely not having issues where it would seem calling the CA move a mistake would be appropriate. And the new addition Tucson has been a wash vs Springfield, MA. San Jose is really the only mistake they made in California, as it was a clear downgrade over Worcester playing in front of crowds that wouldn't fill one section at the Shark Tank.

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