SilverBullet1929

Miami Marlins 2019 Rebrand

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I didn’t know the whole story of the Marlins situation, but I do know something about Dan Snyder! Dan Snyder is the worst owner in sports. He has ruined the team I love. He’s made me indifferent. I hate him. He is the worst.

 

Buuut, as a Jew, to call him “greedy” is antisemitic to me, as is depicting him like this:

 

_dev_pubsys_images_1290037123_m_cover_il

 

Thanks for this illustration, Washington City Paper!

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15 hours ago, Marlins93 said:

I agree that it's underwhelming but I don't get much of an 80s vibe at all now that the dust has settled a bit. It reminds me much more of the early/mid 2000s BFBS trend if we were to draw a comparison.

The intent to replicate neon signage gave me a slight 80s vibe but then these shirts really played into the 80s aesthetic. Which isn't a bad thing, mind you. I think the actual uniforms would have been much more interesting (in a good way) had they gone with wordmarks like that instead of the bland mid-2000s stuff they opted for.

 

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8 minutes ago, Quillz said:

Jeter is to the Marlins what Magic Johnson is to the Dodgers. Both are well-known "faces" of their organizations, yet neither are majority owners and don't really deal with the true money decisions. I think some people are assuming Jeter is to the Marlins what John Elway is to the Broncos.

 

I don't know why anyone would confuse the two.

 

Elway is the Broncos' GM, not an owner.   Michael Hill is the Marlins' GM (or at least has those duties). 

 

Jeter, on the other hand, is an active owner who is reportedly involved with virtually every facet of the organization. 

 

Magic Johnson isn't even a good analog, since he is like Elway - an employee, not an owner.  IIRC, Magic was a part-owner for a while, but sold his stake around the time he bought a piece of the Dodgers.

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1 hour ago, DeFrank said:

I didn’t know the whole story of the Marlins situation, but I do know something about Dan Snyder! Dan Snyder is the worst owner in sports. He has ruined the team I love. He’s made me indifferent. I hate him. He is the worst.

 

 Buuut, as a Jew, to call him “greedy” is antisemitic to me, as is depicting him like this:

 

_dev_pubsys_images_1290037123_m_cover_il

 

Thanks for this illustration, Washington City Paper!

 

I agree that the graphic is anti-Semetic.  You'd have to be profoundly ignorant of history to avoid that.

 

But calling him "greedy" is a statement of fact.  Snyder has monetized everything he can, cutting costs and raising prices in an attempt to auction up every last penny he can wring from the team.

 

He started charging fans to attend once-free practices and taking people to court when they try to get out of long season-ticket contracts they can no longer afford.  He once tried to charge media to cover the team.  He hired a play-calling "consultant" in the hopes that the head coach would quit and save Snyder from the rest of the contract.  His ticket sales staff was caught using fake StubHub accounts to funnel tickets there where they could be sold for over face value.  He added parking surcharges to every ticket sold, even for customers who didn't drive to the stadium.  The list goes on and on.

 

My personal favorite is when vendors at FedEx Field were caught selling out-of-date peanuts originally packaged for an airline that had gone out of business years before, if only because "peanuts" is so appropriate to Snyder's ownership.

 

If we're to stop calling Snyder "greedy", then we'll need a new word to cover his avarice.  Hell, we need a new one anyway, since "greedy" seems so wholly inadequate.

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On 1/1/2019 at 11:20 AM, Sec19Row53 said:

So if I said that I had no clue that any of these gentlemen were or were not Jewish, would that change any of your thinking even a little bit?  Because I didn't.

I never intended to imply you, or anyone else in this conversation, were guilty of maliciously pigeon-holing anyone. I was more commenting on how media tends to focus on individuals of minority groups who confirm to certain stereotypes and ignore those who don't fit the established narratives.

I don't think you, or anyone else here, is in the wrong.

 

Sorry I didn't make that clear beforehand.

 

On 1/1/2019 at 11:45 AM, Gothamite said:

 

I’m not sure that’s an entirely fair comparison.  Even setting aside that I had no idea any of those three men were Jewish.

 

Sherman is ignored because that’s the point of Sherman.  Jeter wanted a silent partner, or else he would have stayed with Jeb Bush.

 

I have no particular love for Jeter, but he’s not taking Loria-level flak because he hasn’t done anything as obviously scummy as Loria and Samson have done.  If he goes there and is then spared, you’ll have a point.

 

I appreciate the point you’re making, with the current rise in anti-Semitism, but I honestly don’t think that’s behind the criticism of those two men.

 

21 hours ago, the admiral said:

 

I understand this discomfort, but Loria and Samson really did set new lows in greed and ruthlessness. It had nothing to do with their Jewishness and everything to do with them being crappy people. But you do make a very good point about Jeter and his role as public ownership face.

Fair points all around.

 

It was something that popped into my head after considering the relationship between Derrick Jeter and the media with regards to Bruce Sherman, and I figured it was worth running up the flagpole.

 

 

 

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No worries - I didn’t think you were calling me out.   And thanks for raising the topic; these days it’s more important than ever. 

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12 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

I never intended to imply you, or anyone else in this conversation, were guilty of maliciously pigeon-holing anyone. I was more commenting on how media tends to focus on individuals of minority groups who confirm to certain stereotypes and ignore those who don't fit the established narratives.

I don't think you, or anyone else here, is in the wrong.

 

Sorry I didn't make that clear beforehand.

 

Nope - I didn't take it that way at all. I'm just saying that each of our own experiences don't equate to the experiences and understanding of anyone else -- or EVERYONE else.  What you see isn't the same as what I see. Because of that, it's possible that my understanding of "things" would appear to someone as being malicious.

 

As Obi-Wan said in the Batman movies (shut up, he's on a roll) - '"Always be aware of your surroundings".

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1 hour ago, Gothamite said:

 

I agree that the graphic is anti-Semetic.  You'd have to be profoundly ignorant of history to avoid that.

 

But calling him "greedy" is a statement of fact.  Snyder has monetized everything he can, cutting costs and raising prices in an attempt to auction up every last penny he can wring from the team.

  

He started charging fans to attend once-free practices and taking people to court when they try to get out of long season-ticket contracts they can no longer afford.  He once tried to charge media to cover the team.  He hired a play-calling "consultant" in the hopes that the head coach would quit and save Snyder from the rest of the contract.  His ticket sales staff was caught using fake StubHub accounts to funnel tickets there where they could be sold for over face value.  He added parking surcharges to every ticket sold, even for customers who didn't drive to the stadium.  The list goes on and on.

  

My personal favorite is when vendors at FedEx Field were caught selling out-of-date peanuts originally packaged for an airline that had gone out of business years before, if only because "peanuts" is so appropriate to Snyder's ownership.

 

If we're to stop calling Snyder "greedy", then we'll need a new word to cover his avarice.  Hell, we need a new one anyway, since "greedy" seems so wholly inadequate.

He also got caught selling expired beer in 2014 that was branded for the World Cup in Brazil earlier that year:
https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2014/09/26/washington-redskins-world-cup-expired-beer

 

He also was selling in 2006 a Pentagon Flag hat to commemorate the 5th year Anniversary of 9/11 with no money going to any charities: 

https://deadspin.com/never-forget-dan-snyders-fifth-anniversary-of-9-11-sk-1828976458

 

My favorite was he double sold radio ads. They once had the "GTMRI Redskins Scoreboard brought to you by McDonalds"

 

BTW I used to work for the team. 

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3 hours ago, Quillz said:

Jeter is to the Marlins what Magic Johnson is to the Dodgers. Both are well-known "faces" of their organizations, yet neither are majority owners and don't really deal with the true money decisions. I think some people are assuming Jeter is to the Marlins what John Elway is to the Broncos.

Jeter is way more involved in day to day operations with the Marlins than Magic Johnson is for the Dodgers. I'm not a Dodgers fan so if anyone wants to prove me wrong go right ahead but Jeter is way more in charge of this team beyond just being a public face. 

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Just now, SilverBullet1929 said:

Jeter is way more involved in day to day operations with the Marlins than Magic Johnson is for the Dodgers. I'm not a Dodgers fan so if anyone wants to prove me wrong go right ahead but Jeter is way more in charge of this team beyond just being a public face. 

I was referring to another comment that mentioned Jeter's getting flak was part of his job. He's a face and name people know and can associate with the Marlins, regardless of how much input he is or isn't having. When the new ownership group bought the Dodgers, we saw Magic Johnson's face being plastered everywhere in a similar way, he represented the ownership group and was someone everyone already knew. As mentioned by someone else, Jeter takes the flak so the silent partners behind the scenes don't.

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2 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

The intent to replicate neon signage gave me a slight 80s vibe but then these shirts really played into the 80s aesthetic. Which isn't a bad thing, mind you. I think the actual uniforms would have been much more interesting (in a good way) had they gone with wordmarks like that instead of the bland mid-2000s stuff they opted for.

 

Those shirts are snazzy but have a completely different aesthetic than the actual uniforms. And I think the colors of the uniforms get too lost in the black to resemble neon signage, even if a neon look was what they were attempting there.

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2 minutes ago, Marlins93 said:

Those shirts are snazzy but have a completely different aesthetic than the actual uniforms. And I think the colors of the uniforms get too lost in the black to resemble neon signage, even if a neon look was what they were attempting there.

That’s my point- that the new unis fail to live up to the concept’s potential.

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17 hours ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

There's two sides to every story. To people who are actually Marlins fans and not just random people who don't really follow the team I actually feel the support for Jeter and the organization as a whole growing more and more. Those people understand those moves and don't just see them as Loria moves, because they're not. I refuse to consider the opinions of people who haven't gone to a Marlins game since the year the ballpark opened as being the opinions of the Marlins fanbase. Of course there are real Marlins fans who disapprove of Jeter but I honestly think the majority do approve of him and his moves and I'm talking about season ticket holders, fans who actually attend games on a realistic and regular basis, fans who actually watch the games and know the players, etc. 

Then there are fans like me who follow the team closely, agree that a rebuild was needed, but feel that the execution itself has been incredibly disappointing. I think there are plenty of "real" Marlins fans like me who feel the same way. The biggest blunder is of course the Yelich trade. The jury is still out on Brinson and he could figure it out and become a 5-6 WAR player, but it seems more likely that he's just a slightly better Cameron Maybin. I will gladly eat my words in a year or two, but Jeter got terrible value for the most team friendly contract in baseball even if he was a clubhouse malcontent. And I was also disgusted by the Marlins not moving any of their coveted relievers in June/July before their inevitable regressions. They had a great opportunity to sell high for once but squandered it. Moves like these have the stench of Loria. The Marlins also gave Realmuto some laughably lowball offers in their extension negotiations that probably polluted the water. So far the only baseball decision that's impressed me at all has been the Mesa brothers signing. Jeter & co just haven't shown me much on the baseball side of things for me to approve of them. They fare much better on the community relations side of thing, I admit.

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2 hours ago, kmccarthy27 said:

He also got caught selling expired beer in 2014 that was branded for the World Cup in Brazil earlier that year:
https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2014/09/26/washington-redskins-world-cup-expired-beer

 

He also was selling in 2006 a Pentagon Flag hat to commemorate the 5th year Anniversary of 9/11 with no money going to any charities: 

https://deadspin.com/never-forget-dan-snyders-fifth-anniversary-of-9-11-sk-1828976458

 

My favorite was he double sold radio ads. They once had the "GTMRI Redskins Scoreboard brought to you by McDonalds"

 

BTW I used to work for the team. 

 

Oh no yeah Snyder is DA WOAT but “greedy” just rubs me the wrong way when we could just say he’s bad at spending tons of money on the team and generally mean, petty, and out of touch

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Loria wasn’t cheap. He put money into the 2003 team when many thought it was a mistake. He went after Carlos Delgado and only traded everyone after a stadium deal fell through. The 2006 rebuild paid off sooner than many thought. He cut bait on the 2012 team after a terrible start and lackluster attendance. That team had a then franchise record payroll. He spent money on Stanton. 

 

The Loria/Samson era is more a period of overall mismanagement. They spent money when it was necessary, but it was usually not on the right pieces.

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3 hours ago, DeFrank said:

Oh no yeah Snyder is DA WOAT but “greedy” just rubs me the wrong way when we could just say he’s bad at spending tons of money on the team and generally mean, petty, and out of touch

 

All of that.  And greedy. 

 

There’s really no other word for the way he tried to boost his profits, wringing every dollar out of fans while slashing the money he put into it. 

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48 minutes ago, marlinfan said:

The Loria/Samson era is more a period of overall mismanagement. They spent money when it was necessary, but it was usually not on the right pieces.

 

And then capped off by a massive and outrageous payout from the South Florida taxpayers.

 

He wasn’t some well-meaning if inept guy.  He was also a scumbag of the highest order. 

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I'm starting to think that Jeter has really bland aesthetic taste. While I approve of many of the ballpark design changes so far, it looks like they are tearing out the color coded walls and flooring on the concourse and replacing them with industrial grey. To those not familiar with Marlins Park, the concourse was formerly divided into quadrants (red, yellow, green, blue) that really brightened up the place. Very disappointing to hear that this unique feature is going away!

 

Still miffed that they continue to telegraph the "vibrancy" of South Florida but then proceed to make aesthetic changes to the drab and monochrome.

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2 hours ago, Marlins93 said:

I'm starting to think that Jeter has really bland aesthetic taste. While I approve of many of the ballpark design changes so far, it looks like they are tearing out the color coded walls and flooring on the concourse and replacing them with industrial grey. To those not familiar with Marlins Park, the concourse was formerly divided into quadrants (red, yellow, green, blue) that really brightened up the place. Very disappointing to hear that this unique feature is going away!

 

Still miffed that they continue to telegraph the "vibrancy" of South Florida but then proceed to make aesthetic changes to the drab and monochrome.

Thre quadrant system was fine, but every single wall and accent piece didnt have to match.  Simple signage in those colors are fine.

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1 hour ago, AstroBull21 said:

Thre quadrant system was fine, but every single wall and accent piece didnt have to match.  Simple signage in those colors are fine.

I disagree mostly because simple signage would have been just as drab and sterile as what they are installing now. That vibrant color scheme at least helped you forget a little bit that you were watching baseball indoors.

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