Division 1 College Conference Realignment

[Seadragon76]

20 minutes ago, sc49erfan15 said:

Well, since it's now out in the open...

 

http://www.aseaofred.com/liberty-to-make-major-conference-affiliation-announcement/

 

Liberty from the Big South to the Atlantic Sun in all sports except football.

 

That seems like a very lateral move for Liberty. Weren't they more comfortable in the Big South?

[sc49erfan15]

22 minutes ago, Seadragon76 said:

 

That seems like a very lateral move for Liberty. Weren't they more comfortable in the Big South?

 

Liberty has wanted to go FBS for a long time. They announced their (football-only) move up to FBS as an independent in February 2017, with all other sports staying in the Big South. One of the Big South bylaws basically says "full members must participate in the Big South in all sports the Big South offers." As the Big South offers football, Liberty would not remain a full member of the Big South - only an associate member.

 

Only full members of the Big South can host conference championships, not associate members. Liberty wants to host championships and has some great facilities. The A-Sun was really their only option, no other conference seemed to want them. IMO (with possible Big South homerism) it's a downgrade for Liberty, but allows them to chase their FBS dragon (flames? dragon? get it LOL) while remaining a member in a conference that will presumably allow them to host championships. They're making some sacrifices in attempt to go to an FBS conference in all sports.

[Wings]

Any chance Conference USA or the Sun Belt would reconsider taking them? Is it just the religious aspect? 

[dfwabel]

5 minutes ago, Wings said:

Any chance Conference USA or the Sun Belt would reconsider taking them? Is it just the religious aspect? 

CUSA reportedly turned down $24M from Liberty in 2016

[sc49erfan15]

15 minutes ago, Wings said:

Any chance Conference USA or the Sun Belt would reconsider taking them? Is it just the religious aspect? 

 

If Liberty football is somewhat successful in FBS, maybe. I think that's what they're banking on/hoping for.

 

I think there's something to be said that this is their only move in this decade or so of mass conference realignment. C-USA has taken ODU and UTSA from FCS, and the Sun Belt has taken App State, Coastal Carolina, Georgia Southern, Georgia State, and Texas State from FCS. Liberty has more money than they know what to do with. What's keeping them from an FBS conference? You decide.

[rams80]

1 hour ago, Wings said:

Any chance Conference USA or the Sun Belt would reconsider taking them? Is it just the religious aspect? 

 

Religious aspect, poor quality education in some very important fields, the fact they are a for profit dot com hiding behind technically non-profit status.

[Wings]

41 minutes ago, rams80 said:

 

Religious aspect, poor quality education in some very important fields, the fact they are a for profit dot com hiding behind technically non-profit status.

Sort of the Grand Canyon of the east

[sc49erfan15]

44 minutes ago, Wings said:

Sort of the Grand Canyon of the east

 

With a ton more money and Young Earth Creationism.

[Red Wolf]

8 hours ago, dfwabel said:

CUSA reportedly turned down $24M from Liberty in 2016

They offered big money (less than $24M) to the Sun Belt as well. Falwell Jr. then took to calling everybody in C-USA and the Sun Belt religious bigots. The fact that they hired the POS Baylor AD to be the head of their own athletics department is enough for me to root against them. 

[Seadragon76]

This still feels very lateral for them. If the goal is to get into an FBS conference, being in the Atlantic Sun isn't going to help them in the long run.

 

At least being an associate member of the Big South means that if the FBS experiment fails, they have a fall back option (they still technically would have this option in the Atlantic Sun as they have an alliance deal with the Big South that would put A-SUN members in the Big South for football).

[sc49erfan15]

1 hour ago, Seadragon76 said:

This still feels very lateral for them. If the goal is to get into an FBS conference, being in the Atlantic Sun isn't going to help them in the long run.

 

At least being an associate member of the Big South means that if the FBS experiment fails, they have a fall back option (they still technically would have this option in the Atlantic Sun as they have an alliance deal with the Big South that would put A-SUN members in the Big South for football).

 

They wanted to explore their FBS football dreams and be able to host championships in other sports. The Big South wasn't allowing that. Liberty has been a conference powerhouse over the past 20ish years in Olympic sports and women's basketball. Those aren't the money makers, but hosting championships for those sports is important to them.

 

They're hoping to play FBS independent football for a few years and be successful enough that the Sun Belt or C-USA finally relents and accepts them. Will it happen? I have no idea. But whether they spend the meantime in the Big South or A-Sun is pretty inconsequential.

 

Travel is an issue - the closest A-Sun opponent (NJIT) is farther than the furthest Big South opponent (Charleston Southern), but apparently they'd rather host championships.

[leopard88]

40 minutes ago, sc49erfan15 said:

Travel is an issue - the closest A-Sun opponent (NJIT) is farther than the furthest Big South opponent (Charleston Southern), but apparently they'd rather host championships.

 

I believe you (this being a geography issue, and all), but this kind of surprises me.

 

Maybe it's because I don't really know who is in the A-Sun without having to look it up.

[sc49erfan15]

2 hours ago, leopard88 said:

 

I believe you (this being a geography issue, and all), but this kind of surprises me.

 

Maybe it's because I don't really know who is in the A-Sun without having to look it up.

 

Also because the A-Sun is basically a revolving door. 

 

As of right now, it's a bunch of Florida teams (FGCU, Jacksonville, North Florida, Stetson), Kennesaw State (Atlanta), Lipscomb (Nashville), and NJIT because... reasons. North Alabama is also moving to the A-Sun. 

 

It seemed that the A-Sun was carving out some sort of geographical niche away from the SoCon/Big South (apart from NJIT) and abandoning the Carolinas/Virginia for FL/AL/TN/GA, but Liberty kinda proves that they'll pretty much take anyone, anywhere. 

[pianoknight]

Could just be some speculation, but Sports Illlustrated and 24/7 Sports are running with it:

 

https://www.si.com/college-football/2018/12/06/jim-delany-big-ten-divisions-realignment-playoff

https://247sports.com/college/oklahoma/Article/Big-Ten-targeting-Oklahoma-Sooners-Texas-Longhorns-125965141/amp/

 

Here's some thoughts I shared on another site:

 

 

You gotta think about the long-term ramifications of this. Grabbing OU and Texas is as much preemptive as it is expansionist. Yes, it's a great financial move, but it's also an SEC-killing move. If the Big Ten DOESN'T grab OU and Texas, guess what? The SEC will.

If the SEC goes to 16 teams, the ACC and B1G will have to follow suit. And remember that our other would-be suiter -- Notre Dame -- is already locked up into the ACC. All their non-football/non-revenue sports are already in the ACC and they currently share a whackjob New Years Bowl arrangement with the ACC, where bowl selectors essentially pick an ACC and/or Irish team to fill their slots. Notre Dame is basically the Puerto Rico of the ACC. It's all but a done deal.

So, the ACC legitimizes the Irish Shotgun Wedding and perhaps grabs someone like Cincinnati or maybe UCF. 

What does that leave the Big Ten with?  Baylor? TCU? Iowa State?

Kansas is marginally non-barfy consolation prize, but they'd likely come coupled with KSU in that state and really the Jay-Cat combo doesn't move the needle much. It's a certain failure against the SEC swindling OU and Texas and the ACC grabbing the Golden Domers. 

Delaney is FAR too shrewd to lose this chess game. If he preemptively grabs OU and Texas, he cuts off the SEC at the knees. The Irish go ACC anyway -- they were never gonna be an SEC team -- and it forces the SEC into a couple of terrible moves. They either double down on the Lonestar State with TCU/Baylor/Tech or grab what, Oklahoma State? UCF is a rising star, but they're no Gators. 

The most likely move here is an SEC raid of the ACC, grabbing a pair that includes FSU, Miami, Clemson, UNC and/or Virginia Tech. The Tar Heels and Hokies open up two new states into the footprint and the SEC has been VERY strong about not wanting to repeat states they already "own." Really, the only way they would even consider doubling up is for a blue blood like Texas, FSU or Miami. MAaaaayybe Clemson. 

 

West Virginia is still a wild card. They either fill a gap in the ACC or maybe there's an outside chance the SEC makes a play. But the Mountain State doesn't really bring any new television sets (do West Virginians even HAVE cable?) and it certainly doesn't bring any recruiting ground. The Mountaineers have made a push in recent years, but they're still a bridesmaid and not the Sooner/Horn/Irish Bride in this whole mess.

[GDAWG]

I know that Football is the cash cow for college sports, but Baylor would be a nice addition for the Big 10 in Women's Basketball. 

[LMU]

Merging this B1G/Big XII/ACC/SEC deathmatch talk into the OG thread.

[pianoknight]

The AAC is talking about a grant-of-rights deal that might play into the bigger P5 realignment talk.

 

https://www.tampabay.com/sports/usf-bulls/2018/12/10/report-aac-trying-to-lock-up-schools-through-grant-of-rights-deal/

 

While a grant of rights deal isn't 100% ironclad in forcing teams to remain in their current conference, it certainly is a damper.  Plus, you wind up needing an army of lawyers to navigate the ensuing fallout should a school decide to bolt for the P5.  That's not an impossible task if you're, say, Oklahoma and you want to bail on the Big XII, but it's a far bigger concern for a mid-size school in the AAC with fewer resources.

 

A grant of rights deal could prevent the Big XII from bolstering their ranks with the likes of UCF, which means the Big XII could also be ripe for the picking should Delaney and the Big Ten want to continue pursuing Oklahoma and Texas.

[rams80]

On 12/7/2018 at 11:21 AM, GDAWG said:

I know that Football is the cash cow for college sports, but Baylor would be a nice addition for the Big 10 in Women's Basketball. 

 

And the sex assault issue and related moral bankruptcy would make them a perfect fit in the B1G East.

[pianoknight]

On 12/7/2018 at 9:21 AM, GDAWG said:

I know that Football is the cash cow for college sports, but Baylor would be a nice addition for the Big 10 in Women's Basketball. 

 

At the risk of activating the Title IX Social Justice Warriors, women's basketball is a no-go for conference realignment.  Men's basketball is a considerably bigger financial success, but pretty much every major basketball program runs at a deficit and has to be subsidized by football or the university/academia/taxpayers. 

 

The top five revenue-earning men's basketball programs are Louisville ($46m) Duke ($31m), Kentucky and Syracuse ($27m each) and Indiana ($23m).

 

By comparison, the top five NCAAF programs are Texas A&M ($148m), Texas ($133m), Michigan and Alabama ($127m each), and Ohio State ($120m). 

 

Notice that the football teams are earning roughly ONE HUNDRED MILLION more in revenue per year.  Granted, football has A LOT more expenses.  But even the 25th ranked team for football revenue (Texas Tech) is raking in $60m per year.  And remember that schools in the Big Ten and SEC are earning about ~$50m/year just for existing.  Indiana might make $23m in basketball (and an untold number from football), but just for playing in the Big Ten they rake in another $50m annually.  In other words, Indiana as a Big Ten "brand" is more financially lucrative than actual Indiana Basketball. 

 

[dfwabel]

42 minutes ago, pianoknight said:

 

At the risk of activating the Title IX Social Justice Warriors, women's basketball is a no-go for conference realignment.  Men's basketball is a considerably bigger financial success, but pretty much every major basketball program runs at a deficit and has to be subsidized by football or the university/academia/taxpayers. 

 

The top five revenue-earning men's basketball programs are Louisville ($46m) Duke ($31m), Kentucky and Syracuse ($27m each) and Indiana ($23m).

 

By comparison, the top five NCAAF programs are Texas A&M ($148m), Texas ($133m), Michigan and Alabama ($127m each), and Ohio State ($120m). 

 

Notice that the football teams are earning roughly ONE HUNDRED MILLION more in revenue per year.  Granted, football has A LOT more expenses.  But even the 25th ranked team for football revenue (Texas Tech) is raking in $60m per year.  And remember that schools in the Big Ten and SEC are earning about ~$50m/year just for existing.  Indiana might make $23m in basketball (and an untold number from football), but just for playing in the Big Ten they rake in another $50m annually.  In other words, Indiana as a Big Ten "brand" is more financially lucrative than actual Indiana Basketball. 

 

Keep in mind that B1G football and MBB both split gate receipts. Michigan, Penn State, Ohio State, and Wisconsin have some of thier football gate split within the other members and IU does it with MBB gate receipts.