Division 1 College Conference Realignment

[Seadragon76]

11 hours ago, GDAWG said:

 

The Southland Conference has had more success with former Division II schools with Abilene Christian, Incarnate Word and the University of New Orleans.  I wonder how many SWAC schools the Southland Conference would take in if that league was to fold?

 

That's a different beast to begin with. Abilene Christian and Incarnate Word were already D-II schools and New Orleans flirted with the idea before going back.

 

This is a school that probably has no business in even attempting this.

[dfwabel]

Oh man. Don't do this.

 

If they elect to move up to Division I, they'll put a massive amount of fees on their student body for decades.  Kentucky State's enrollment is under 1,800 undergrad and not even 2,100 total.  While, that's not Presbyterian small, they have retention level at 68% for Freshmen, but they have issues getting students to enroll period. Partnering with area school districts for Dual Enrollment is the reason they are where they are now.  

In fact, in the last week, they announced that out of state tuition will be reduced to those from eight neighboring states plus Michigan. 

[sc49erfan15]

On 6/16/2019 at 11:46 AM, dfwabel said:

Oh man. Don't do this.

 

If they elect to move up to Division I, they'll put a massive amount of fees on their student body for decades.  Kentucky State's enrollment is under 1,800 undergrad and not even 2,100 total.  While, that's not Presbyterian small, they have retention level at 68% for Freshmen, but they have issues getting students to enroll period. Partnering with area school districts for Dual Enrollment is the reason they are where they are now.  

In fact, in the last week, they announced that out of state tuition will be reduced to those from eight neighboring states plus Michigan. 

 

Also, they're public. We really, really don't need public schools with enrollments of under 2,000 attempting Division I athletics. 

[sc49erfan15]

Bellarmine (Louisville, KY; formerly D2 GLVC) moving to D1 (Atlantic Sun) in 2020.

 

Private, Catholic school with just over 2,500 undergrads. Have at it, I guess?

[leopard88]

8 minutes ago, sc49erfan15 said:

Bellarmine (Louisville, KY; formerly D2 GLVC) moving to D1 (Atlantic Sun) in 2020.

 

Private, Catholic school with just over 2,500 undergrads. Have at it, I guess?

 

I thought Bellarmine was already D-1 in lacrosse.  The article confirmed that.

 

Now, I'm just not sure how they were able to be D-1 in lacrosse and D-2 in everything else.  I thought schools had to be grandfathered in some time ago to be D-1 in only one sport (like JHU in lacrosse and multiple colleges in hockey).

[sc49erfan15]

17 minutes ago, leopard88 said:

 

I thought Bellarmine was already D-1 in lacrosse.  The article confirmed that.

 

Now, I'm just not sure how they were able to be D-1 in lacrosse and D-2 in everything else.  I thought schools had to be grandfathered in some time ago to be D-1 in only one sport (like JHU in lacrosse and multiple colleges in hockey).

 

I'm pretty sure that's only for large revenue sports (namely, men's basketball and football). I think you can "play up" in one men's/women's sport each - like Dallas Baptist in baseball, provided you sponsored that sport at a D1 level prior to 2011. However, they're getting more uncommon outside of fringe sports (fencing, bowling, rifle, etc.) - a lot of programs that formerly sponsored a D1 program in one sport (e.g., Francis Marion University women's soccer) have dropped down to D2 in recent years.

[leopard88]

7 minutes ago, sc49erfan15 said:

 

I'm pretty sure that's only for large revenue sports (namely, men's basketball and football). I think you can "play up" in one sport - like Dallas Baptist in baseball, provided you sponsored that sport at a D1 level prior to 2011.

 

I knew there was a grandfathering date that was established after a proposal to prevent teams from being able to play up.  I just wasn't sure what the date was.  For some reason, I thought it was farther back than 2011.

 

My recollection is that JHU was rumored to be a candidate for the Patriot League if it had been forced to move its other sports up to D-1 to join lacrosse.  Obviously, that never happened, but I think they would be a good fit . . . even now.

 

 

[sc49erfan15]

7 minutes ago, leopard88 said:

 

I knew there was a grandfathering date that was established after a proposal to prevent teams from being able to play up.  I just wasn't sure what the date was.  For some reason, I thought it was farther back than 2011.

 

My recollection is that JHU was rumored to be a candidate for the Patriot League if it had been forced to move its other sports up to D-1 to join lacrosse.  Obviously, that never happened, but I think they would be a good fit . . . even now.

 

I remember there being a similar rule back in the '90s (or even the late '80s) that prohibited D2/D3 schools from playing D1 in football or men's basketball. The big result (or at least one of them) was Georgetown football moving to D1. No idea why they set a new grandfather clause in 2011.

[leopard88]

39 minutes ago, sc49erfan15 said:

 

I remember there being a similar rule back in the '90s (or even the late '80s) that prohibited D2/D3 schools from playing D1 in football or men's basketball. The big result (or at least one of them) was Georgetown football moving to D1. No idea why they set a new grandfather clause in 2011.

 

The football and basketball rule was already in place around the time frame you mentioned.  Besides Georgetown moving up, a lot of mid-majors moved up then too (e.g., Butler, Dayton, Drake).  The second round dealt with other sports, like hockey and lacrosse (though I'm sure there are other examples).

 

I can't recall whether they just allowed grandfathered schools to continue in D-1 or continued allowing schools to play up in sports other than football and basketball.  I just know that JHU is still D-1 in lacrosse only (men's and women's) and that there are still a lot of schools that are still D-1 in hockey only.

[Seadragon76]

There's 10 Division III schools that play in Division I.

 

Five of them (Clarkson, Colorado College, Johns Hopkins, RPI and St. Lawrence) were grandfathered in since these schools have played at the highest level for many years. There were a few others that were grandfathered in but have gone back down to Division III. These were the men's soccer teams at SUNY Oneonta and Hartwick along with the men's volleyball team at Rutgers-Newark.

 

The other five (Franklin and Marshall, Hobart, MIT, RIT, and Union) were not grandfathered in. Therefore they can't give out scholarships in these sports.

 

Of these ten schools, 5.5 of them are for hockey (the half is for Colorado College, who doesn't have women's ice hockey). The others are women's soccer, lacrosse, men's wrestling and women's rowing.

 

This doesn't include the teams in sports that compete in a single division (like Bowling or Beach Volleyball)

[rams80]

9 hours ago, sc49erfan15 said:

Bellarmine (Louisville, KY; formerly D2 GLVC) moving to D1 (Atlantic Sun) in 2020.

 

Private, Catholic school with just over 2,500 undergrads. Have at it, I guess?

Not insane on their part and the A-Sun doesn’t do football so not as big a burden.

[leopard88]

15 hours ago, Seadragon76 said:

There's 10 Division III schools that play in Division I.

 

Five of them (Clarkson, Colorado College, Johns Hopkins, RPI and St. Lawrence) were grandfathered in since these schools have played at the highest level for many years. There were a few others that were grandfathered in but have gone back down to Division III. These were the men's soccer teams at SUNY Oneonta and Hartwick along with the men's volleyball team at Rutgers-Newark.

 

The other five (Franklin and Marshall, Hobart, MIT, RIT, and Union) were not grandfathered in. Therefore they can't give out scholarships in these sports.

 

Of these ten schools, 5.5 of them are for hockey (the half is for Colorado College, who doesn't have women's ice hockey). The others are women's soccer, lacrosse, men's wrestling and women's rowing.

 

This doesn't include the teams in sports that compete in a single division (like Bowling or Beach Volleyball)

 

I can safely say that I had no idea F&M was D-1 in wrestling.

 

Also, I'm old enough to remember when Hartwick was a legitimate national power in soccer.  They had a pretty nice run in the 70s and 80s.  Six College Cup appearances in twelve years, with one championship.

 

Hartwick Hawks (Division I independent) (1973–1999)
1973	Timo Liekoski	9–2–1			NCAA Quarterfinals
1974	Timo Liekoski	10–4–3			NCAA 3rd Place
1975	Timo Liekoski	9–3–1			NCAA 2nd round
Timo Liekoski:		30–9–7 (.728)
1976	Jim Lennox	16–1–1			NCAA 3rd Place
1977	Jim Lennox	16–0–2			NCAA Champion
1978	Jim Lennox	10–5–1			NCAA 1st round
1979	Jim Lennox	12–3–2			NCAA 2nd round
1980	Jim Lennox	14–7–1			NCAA 4th place
1981	Jim Lennox	10–6–4			ECAC Champions
1982	Jim Lennox	13–5–1
1983	Jim Lennox	13–4–1			NCAA 2nd round
1984	Jim Lennox	16–5–1			NCAA 3rd Place
1985	Jim Lennox	17–3–1			NCAA 3rd Place
1986	Jim Lennox	13–7–1			NCAA Quarterfinals
1987	Jim Lennox	10–5–4			NCAA 2nd round
1988	Jim Lennox	9–8–2
1989	Jim Lennox	13–5–2			NCAA 1st round
1990	Jim Lennox	10–7–3
1991	Jim Lennox	8–10–2
1992	Jim Lennox	12–5–0
1993	Jim Lennox	16–4–2			NCAA 2nd round
1994	Jim Lennox	11–5–3
1995	Jim Lennox	13–2–6			NCAA 2nd round

[RyanMcD29]

Hartwick and Oneonta are across the street to each other, to boot, so wild to think the 2 men's soccer exceptions were right on top of one another

[buzzcut]

UMKC to leave the WAC for the Summit.

[Seadragon76]

9 hours ago, buzzcut said:

UMKC to leave the WAC for the Summit.

 

You knew this was going to happen. UMKC was not happy in the WAC and moving back to the Summit was the best move for them.

 

This gives the Summit a 10th team to help equalize schedules and a stable platform should Augustana (SD) want to jump on board.

 

The WAC? Well, here we go again... They're already losing Cal State Bakersfield to the Big West in 2020. They're adding Dixie State at the same time. Basically, they're one good swipe or a Chicago State closure from falling apart since they'll be at only six core members in 2020 (Cal Baptist would be halfway through the process and Dixie State would be starting it).

[rams80]

New Mexico State looks at how it is now functionally shackled to a for profit religious school when trying to find a new home, sighs.

[LMU]

2 minutes ago, rams80 said:

New Mexico State looks at how it is now functionally shackled to a for profit religious school when trying to find a new home, sighs.

Grand Canyon actually changed to non-profit status.

 

That said, I wouldn't mind the WCC snatching up Seattle (and even GCU) just to put the WAC finally out of its misery.

 

 

[Gary]

32 minutes ago, LMU said:

Grand Canyon actually changed to non-profit status.

 

That said, I wouldn't mind the WCC snatching up Seattle (and even GCU) just to put the WAC finally out of its misery.

 

 

I’ve heard rumors of Denver and GCU going to WCC

[Seadragon76]

Grand Canyon would work well for the WCC... They're both private schools that have some sort of religious backing (More so for Grand Canyon then Denver).

 

If this happens, the WAC might end up ceasing to be. The members would all go elsewhere...

 

-New Mexico State could find a home in either the Mountain West or Conference USA

-Seattle, Utah Valley and Dixie State would be perfect in the Big Sky

-Chicago State is just better off folding

-UTRGV is perfect for the Southland

-Cal Baptist would be good for either the Big West or the WCC.

[rams80]

Seadragon, what makes you think that NMSU would end up with a Mountain West or CUSA invite if they haven't gotten one already?