NHL Anti-Thread: Bad Business Decision Aggregator

[Still MIGHTY]

Not a damn thing stopping you from going to the inner "Westgate Entertainment" lots. And if memory serves, aren't the Coyotes Westgate Entertainment?

Yeah I'm not paying $15 for parking or $20 for premium Lot G (or the $12/$15 pre-paid) when I can park closer for free. Nice job, guys.

(Also, map not to scale. This place is not big at all.)

[The_Admiral]

Unless you just blindly follow the signs, there's nothing forcing you to the game lots.

Yes, but Arizonans are kind of America's clubhouse leader in blind following. Blind following is why they're in this whole mess in the first place!

[dbadefense1990]

Unless you just blindly follow the signs, there's nothing forcing you to the game lots.

Yes, but Arizonans are kind of America's clubhouse leader in blind following. Blind following is why they're in this whole mess in the first place!

[rams80]

There's a Lake Glendale? OH WHAT THE HELL?

[dbadefense1990]

Not a damn thing stopping you from going to the inner "Westgate Entertainment" lots. And if memory serves, aren't the Coyotes Westgate Entertainment?

Yeah I'm not paying $15 for parking or $20 for premium Lot G (or the $12/$15 pre-paid) when I can park closer for free. Nice job, guys.

(Also, map not to scale. This place is not big at all.)

I highly, freaking doubt that an NFL mega-stadium is smaller than the Coyotes pathetic excuse of an arena. I highly doubt that it's even smaller than Lot E.

What was in that freaking tap water those surveyors in Arizona drank?

[cmm]

Not a damn thing stopping you from going to the inner "Westgate Entertainment" lots. And if memory serves, aren't the Coyotes Westgate Entertainment?

Yeah I'm not paying $15 for parking or $20 for premium Lot G (or the $12/$15 pre-paid) when I can park closer for free. Nice job, guys.

(Also, map not to scale. This place is not big at all.)

Did you get a sense of how many people are actually using the pay lots?

[Still MIGHTY]

Not really, we skipped right through and it's not something I thought about looking at until after the fact. All the "Westgate Entertainment" lots were filled up though. And there aren't enough spots in those lots to accommodate everyone that's at Westgate and going to the Coyote game (or concerts. These pay lots are supposed to be for all arena events). So people obviously have to and did use the Coyote specific lots. (And the Outlet mall parking was jam packed too. idk if that was because of people actually at the outlets, or more people taking free parking.)

But there lies the rub. On a Coyote game night or concert night, people really just can't go to Westgate to do anything else. If the regular free lots are filled up, the only available lots would be the pay event lots, and if I'm a general citizen that just wants to go to the movies or Buffalo Wild Wings or the Yard House or whatever, you're not going to go. Or you have to organize your activities around avoiding the event times.

Basically, as we've said for the entirety of this whole ordeal, putting an arena in a strip mall is a bad idea. Or at least putting an arena in a strip mall and not figuring out how you're going to charge for parking from the get go.

[Still MIGHTY]

There's a Lake Glendale? OH WHAT THE HELL?

Eh, don't get too bent up about it. This rectangle pool at the top of the picture is "Lake Glendale"

[Cosmic]

You say "only" six times like it's not that much. $50 million isn't exactly a rounding error, you know!

Those numbers just seem really wrong. I took some shortcuts to make this math quick, and that may invalidate my final answer, but chew on this:

$50M more gate revenue for TOR than PHX ÷ 41 home games ÷ roughly 18,500 seats average between the two arenas = $66 more revenue per seat, per game for the Leafs. Only $66 more for the ACC than the Glendale Fortress of Solitude? Doesn't seem like the right markup.

That's if we were talking about two teams selling every ticket, but Toronto always sells out and Phoenix has been in the 70%'s (80 so far this season, but still).

Edit: Interesting to add that I could go to Ticketmaster and buy at least single seats for upcoming Leafs games when every one will be sold out eventually, but I physically could not purchase Coyotes tickets through Ticketmaster for some reason. I don't know what's up with that, but the Coyotes would not even sell me a first-hand ticket. Wonder why they're not making money?

[wildwing64]

Weird definition of "lake". More like a puddle.

[Funky Bunky]

Admiral, you forgot the other facet of Coyotes revenue... parking, of course! That's like a multi-hundred dollar revenue stream right there.

I'm interested to see how much money they're making off of parking. They made a huge deal about it being this untapped revenue source. I'm interested in seeing how well they're doing on that front.

Fun Fact: I parked in a non-game-designated lot right up front at Westgate for the Ducks game. Free of charge.

Unless you just blindly follow the signs, there's nothing forcing you to the game lots.

Yeah, I went to a Coyotes - Kings game earlier this year, and I just parked over by the Johnny Rocket's in a free parking lot (I believe Lot J). It was still a shorter walk than the walk I take to get from my car to the Honda Center when I go to Ducks games.

[Funky Bunky]

OH YOU FOREVER GLENDALE

I've seen worse. They used to have a thing where you get 2 free tickets when you buy a $20 bottle of Absolute or Stoli or something from Fry's (a local grocery store).

[Coast2CoastAM2006]

OH YOU FOREVER GLENDALE

I've seen worse. They used to have a thing where you get 2 free tickets when you buy a $20 bottle of Absolute or Stoli or something from Fry's (a local grocery store).

maybe but that's $24.75 for a NHL ticket, a hot dog and Pepsi per person to see the current Stanley Cup champs play. I spent more than that to take my wife to see Phantom of the Opera for her birthday years ago.

[Cosmic]

OH YOU FOREVER GLENDALE

I've seen worse. They used to have a thing where you get 2 free tickets when you buy a $20 bottle of Absolute or Stoli or something from Fry's (a local grocery store).

maybe but that's $24.75 for a NHL ticket, a hot dog and Pepsi per person to see the current Stanley Cup champs play. I spent more than that to take my wife to see Phantom of the Opera for her birthday years ago.

... on a Saturday night, no less. Those should be the easy tickets to sell.

[Sodboy13]

I think the usual Blackhawks bump may be lessened by the Thanksgiving weekend.

[dbadefense1990]

OH YOU FOREVER GLENDALE

I've seen worse. They used to have a thing where you get 2 free tickets when you buy a $20 bottle of Absolute or Stoli or something from Fry's (a local grocery store).

maybe but that's $24.75 for a NHL ticket, a hot dog and Pepsi per person to see the current Stanley Cup champs play. I spent more than that to take my wife to see Phantom of the Opera for her birthday years ago.

... on a Saturday night, no less. Those should be the easy tickets to sell.

If they have trouble selling a Saturday game against the defending Cup champions, how in blue hell do they promote a Tuesday game in March against the Florida Panthers?

Weird definition of "lake". More like a puddle.

If this water fountain constitutes a "lake" in Arizona, what constitutes an "ocean?"

[monkeypower]

OH YOU FOREVER GLENDALE

I've seen worse. They used to have a thing where you get 2 free tickets when you buy a $20 bottle of Absolute or Stoli or something from Fry's (a local grocery store).

maybe but that's $24.75 for a NHL ticket, a hot dog and Pepsi per person to see the current Stanley Cup champs play. I spent more than that to take my wife to see Phantom of the Opera for her birthday years ago.

... on a Saturday night, no less. Those should be the easy tickets to sell.

If they have trouble selling a Saturday game against the defending Cup champions, how in blue hell do they promote a Tuesday game in March against the Florida Panthers?

Weird definition of "lake". More like a puddle.

If this water fountain constitutes a "lake" in Arizona, what constitutes an "ocean?"

[The_Admiral]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nhl--everybody-gets-paid--nhl-s-multi-billion-dollar-canadian-tv-deal-enriches-league-from-top-to-bottom-225401414.html

Say you’re the Coyotes. You have been at or near the bottom of the league in attendance in recent years. You want to win, draw fans and make the business work on your own. But the cap and floor are more manageable. You don’t have to hit attendance targets to receive revenue-sharing anymore. Your cut of the Canadian TV revenue now is $4.75 million a year at the current exchange rate, but it will shoot up to an average of about $13.8 million a year over the next dozen years – a $9.05 million difference per year. Now factor in revenue from the American TV deal, the outdoor games, a World Cup, other international events, et cetera.

And now consider this: If the NHL does expand – to, say, Quebec City and Seattle – the owners will split hundreds of millions of dollars in fees between them, and they won’t have to share any of that money with the players.

“We didn’t buy the Coyotes, we’re managing the Coyotes,” said Coyotes executive chairman George Gosbee in an interview last month. “We bought 1/30th of the NHL, and we’re extremely bullish on the NHL and what they’ve been able to do with the new collective bargaining agreement, where we’re going, the revenue projections over the next three years. We’re extremely bullish on it.”

The Canadian TV deal is one reason why.

Poor Pierre-Karl Peladeau.

[Kramerica Industries]

$150 for a single Leafs ticket.

Go yourself, Glendale.

Wait a minute, is that for ANY ticket at the ACC? As in, $150 even for something in the nosebleeds? God does Toronto have some ridiculous ticket inflation.

[Funky Bunky]

$150 for a single Leafs ticket.

Go yourself, Glendale.

Wait a minute, is that for ANY ticket at the ACC? As in, $150 even for something in the nosebleeds? God does Toronto have some ridiculous ticket inflation.

It depends on the game. On Stubhub, some Leafs games start at around $50, while others start at $150. The next Leafs-Habs game at the ACC starts at $230 (and that's just standing room only, if you want a seat, it's at least $300).