NHL Anti-Thread: Bad Business Decision Aggregator

[IceCap]

This discussion's covered more then just this thread, and has been going on at the CCSLC since the story broke more then three years ago. You don't see any pro-Coyotes posts here because most of the pro-Coyotes posters either decided that the team wasn't worth keeping around at the expense of a city or simply stopped posting because they realized that with each new decision coming from Glendale City Hall their position became less and less defensible.

Trust me, I know all that. I've been around for the numerous forms this thread and discussion has been guised as.

And sure, THAT'S why the only reason the pro-Coyotes posters stopped posting in this thread. It has nothing to do with how any pro-Coyotes post was swarmed upon with all the vile the other side could find. It has without question gotten exponentially harder to argue as time has gone by, but there's never been any use in trying to argue it before the horde arrived.

Lets take a look at the pattern of the last round of Coyotes (back during their playoff push). They popped in and claimed we were all simply "haters."

When presented with facts as to why the Coyotes were no longer viable in their current location and facts to back up why the claim that the Jamison deal was illegal they started calling said facts "biased opinions." When presented with links that confirmed that these facts were, well, facts they left as quickly as they appeared. Were they "swarmed upon with vile?" No, they were simply called out for their inability to counter the facts of the situation with anything other then "you're a hater GO 'YOTES!"

So please, don't play the "the poor Coyotes fans can't get a word in edge-wise" card. You've followed this discussion long enough to know that there was quite a substantial pro-Coyotes sentiment when things first broke years ago. That it's shrunken, with the original "lets see if we can make it work in Glendale" supporters either switching sides or simply vanishing from the thread all together points to my central claim. That the pro-Coyotes side of this whole mess becomes less and less defensible with each new revelation.

Whatever. This just HAS to be the last go around with this.

The NHL can keep them there under league ownership as long as the city is willing to bleed itself dry to do so, as long as the NHL values having a team in Arizona above all else. The only way this ends is if the deal is struck down or Glendale literally runs out of money. There's nothing to suggest that this will be "the last go around" as long as the city can keep finding stuff to sell off to make payments.

Look Still MIGHTY, you seem like a smart guy. I just don't "get" how anyone can support this, in any way. It boggles my mind.

You'll find no shortage of municipal leaders who can be blinded by the "prestige" of pro sports.

Though, to be perfectly fair, the City of Glendale's dealings with the National Hockey League didn't set that trend in motion. The Glendale-Phoenix Coyotes situation is simply the latest and - to date - most egregious example of a municipality selling its fiduciary "soul" to the pro sports "devil".

As much as I hate to say it, I wholeheartedly believe it is not outside the realm of possibility that we will someday see a financial relationship between a local government and a pro sports team that makes the Coyotes' saga in Glendale seem quaint by comparison.

*shivers*

Good G-d I hope you're proven wrong on that one.

[The_Admiral]

So it almost came to this:

http://www.azcentral...l#ixzz1yqLZzycX

The Glendale Arts Commission reaffirmed at a meeting Thursday that it would not support selling pieces from the city's art collection.

On May 31, the commission debated a City Council directive to explore selling items in the municipal art collection to help the city's financial situation.

Commissioners were against the idea, Chairwoman Diane Lesser said Thursday, but they asked staff to gather feedback from the community.

A section was added to the city's public art website and five comments were submitted as of June 15. Those comments included:

"The proposed sale of City of Glendale owned art is a travesty ...These art works are not replaceable, unlike buildings, vehicles or the people who made this recommendation."

"Years ago when my family was out of work, we had to sell our valuables that we treasured in order to buy food, I would not be offended if my city sold artwork to help out our budget, we can always go to the Goodwill stores or Salvation Army stores to buy other artwork."

I didn't even think Glendale had an art collection.

[Still MIGHTY]

First, to the part I didn't quote, Ice Cap, I was one of those pro-Coyotes guys that swung to the other side seeing that this whole thing is dumb and it's not worth any city bankrupting itself to a sports team (especially one that's just going to continue to dig the hole deeper). I went back for a little while during the playoff run and when there was the possibility of Jamison or whomever taking over and maybe having a legitimate deal put in place. I'll admit I got kinda swept up in that, and I believe I admitted that then. I believe I also said that once it subsided I'd come back to the other side, and I have with even more encouragement from the Glendale government.

Whatever. This just HAS to be the last go around with this.

The NHL can keep them there under league ownership as long as the city is willing to bleed itself dry to do so, as long as the NHL values having a team in Arizona above all else. The only way this ends is if the deal is struck down or Glendale literally runs out of money. There's nothing to suggest that this will be "the last go around" as long as the city can keep finding stuff to sell off to make payments.

You pretty much restated exactly what I said after the part you quoted, so we're copacetic there.

Look Still MIGHTY, you seem like a smart guy. I just don't "get" how anyone can support this, in any way. It boggles my mind.

Again, I'm not supporting the actions that Glendale is taking. If the Coyotes ended up staying and Glendale continues on its path, I'll go to the games because I like hockey. I'm not going to go as some sign of support for Glendale. I buy my tickets off StubHub, I obviously don't pay parking, and at most they'll get like $11 for a beer (or several if $1 beer nights return) and a hot dog. Glendale's not getting anything from me.

[DustDevil61]

Well, it's always an adventure to watch Joyce Clark's Twitter feed. Now she's playing the game of Blame Canada:

I have blocked all Canadians. No one should have to take their abuse. Block...Block...Block

How is she still in office?

[Crash]

Well, it's always an adventure to watch Joyce Clark's Twitter feed. Now she's playing the game of Blame Canada:

I have blocked all Canadians. No one should have to take their abuse. Block...Block...Block

How is she still in office?

Someone should tell her that there are more than three Canadians. There are at least four of them.

[Sodboy13]

So, uh, hey, Goldwater got their asses handed to them today.

Guess that means it's up to the voters of Glendale now. Otherwise, we've got a lot more of these annual threads to look forward to, instead of just one more.

[bosrs1]

So, uh, hey, Goldwater got their asses handed to them today.

Guess that means it's up to the voters of Glendale now. Otherwise, we've got a lot more of these annual threads to look forward to, instead of just one more.

Don't know if I'd say they got their asses handed to them. I don't think many expected they'd win this part of the ruling. What was more important was the earlier ruling giving them the ability to work to hold the referendum by killing the "emergency" part of the ruling. If this public giveaway gets to the voters it's dead. All you have to say is the T word and people will kill it out of pure reflex never mind after they read all about it and consider it on its lack of merits.

[Magnus]

"Here. This is a petition to sign for a referendum on whether or not a big rich business guy can basically milk the city dry just to manage our arena so that the Phoenix Coyotes can play there."

"Who are the Phoenix Coyotes? A sports team?"

"Yeah, they play hockey."

"Why do they need an arena to play field hockey?"

"Ice hockey, actually."

"And wait, the city is PAYING him to own this 'ice hockey' team?"

"Yes."

"Taking my money to do so?"

"Yes."

"I wish I could give you 100 signatures."

[bosrs1]

Does anyone know what the final filing date for things to go on the November ballot in Glendale is? I've been hearing that it's actually July 5. Which would mean if the GWI waits until the 6th, 7th or 9th to file their petition that it wouldn't even make the November ballot but might actually have to go on an even later ballot in 2013. Which would really kill the Jamison deal.

[njmeadowlanders]

Not really related but imagine if Jim Balsille was successful? So you'd have a team in Hamilton now that he'd have to sell because RIM is probably now going to be gone soon after today's latest bad news...their stock is down to $7.60 now...yeesh.

[The_Admiral]

Yeah, that would be a bad situation, but preferable to what we have now, since I doubt they would've gone into receivership and stayed there for three or maybe four years. Hamilton would've failed anyway. Without even getting into Balsillie losing his fortune, the team would be dead as a doornail the second the Leafs are good again.

[aci]

Yeah, that would be a bad situation, but preferable to what we have now, since I doubt they would've gone into receivership and stayed there for three or maybe four years. Hamilton would've failed anyway. Without even getting into Balsillie losing his fortune, the team would be dead as a doornail the second the Leafs are good again.

It would have been potentially bad, but he would have funded his purchase of the Coyotes by selling RIM stock, right? So he would have run out of excess money, but as long as the Coyotes themselves turned a profit, I don't think he'd have gone broke. He would have just become the CEO of the Hamilton Coyotes instead of wearing two hats and being an actual businessman as well.

And the Leafs sell out all their games even when they suck... unless they can pack in 20,000 more fans into the ACC with standing-room-only tickets, the Hamilton team would be fine. Toronto would always be by far the more popular team, but Southern Ontario already supports two NHL teams, and one isn't even in our country. And most of us hate them. Even playing in Copps, I would be shocked if a Hamilton NHL team didn't sell out every single home game.

[njmeadowlanders]

Yeah, that would be a bad situation, but preferable to what we have now, since I doubt they would've gone into receivership and stayed there for three or maybe four years. Hamilton would've failed anyway. Without even getting into Balsillie losing his fortune, the team would be dead as a doornail the second the Leafs are good again.

It would have been potentially bad, but he would have funded his purchase of the Coyotes by selling RIM stock, right? So he would have run out of excess money, but as long as the Coyotes themselves turned a profit, I don't think he'd have gone broke. He would have just become the CEO of the Hamilton Coyotes instead of wearing two hats and being an actual businessman as well.

And the Leafs sell out all their games even when they suck... unless they can pack in 20,000 more fans into the ACC with standing-room-only tickets, the Hamilton team would be fine. Toronto would always be by far the more popular team, but Southern Ontario already supports two NHL teams, and one isn't even in our country. And most of us hate them. Even playing in Copps, I would be shocked if a Hamilton NHL team didn't sell out every single home game.

Yes he would've...but now that the rest of it is (virtually) worthless (or at least soon will be) he'd have this 200 (?)ish million dollar asset that I'm sure he'd be looking to dump. I mean, he has enough of the stock and enough money that he's not exactly ever going to worry about where his next meal is coming from, but that's a mighty big asset to carry when everything is collapsing around you.

[The_Admiral]

Wherein some piece of crap harasses the old guy gathering signatures. I swear this is the same guy as:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg7fAqQizDA

[DustDevil61]

^^^

What's the thing that Glendale/Coyotes-supporters-regardless-of-any-consequence have against him? He even has a nickname of his own!

[DG_ThenNowForever]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg7fAqQizDA

I saw that and then saw this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX51WDlMehY&feature=related

I wonder what goes on in your life that you need to go and pick fights with strangers. And no one seemed surprised either.

[The_Admiral]

One of the videos on the sidebar to "You Want a Chili Dog, Nerd?" is the 1993 Walter Matthau film adaptation of Dennis the Menace, in its 92-minute entirety. Why, though?

[Coast2CoastAM2006]

One of the videos on the sidebar to "You Want a Chili Dog, Nerd?" is the 1993 Walter Matthau film adaptation of Dennis the Menace, in its 92-minute entirety. Why, though?

because it's one of the most important films of our generation.

[Raymie]

This is like a saga straight out of a really bad sports movie. I live in the Valley, love the Coyotes and ? shock! ? find this whole thing a shipwreck. I'd love it if the Coyotes stayed here, yes. But I'm starting to see that the opportunity cost to keeping the Coyotes is exorbitant.

[pollux]

This is like a saga straight out of a really bad sports movie. I live in the Valley, love the Coyotes and ? shock! ? find this whole thing a shipwreck. I'd love it if the Coyotes stayed here, yes. But I'm starting to see that the opportunity cost to keeping the Coyotes is exorbitant.

You're just starting to see this??