TVIXX

MLB Changes 2017

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12 minutes ago, the admiral said:

I liked teams not wearing normal uniforms in spring training. It was like you don't get to wear the jersey until you're in games that count.

As much as I love regular uniforms over spring training uniforms I've always felt this right here is the way it should be. These are practice games, wear a practice uniform. I find it weird to see the Tigers and Cardinals (picking these two because they do it almost every spring home game) wearing their beautiful home white uniforms in Lakeland and Jupiter Florida and not in Detroit or St Louis. They're not even in their real ballparks why should they wear their home uniforms?

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1 hour ago, the admiral said:

I liked teams not wearing normal uniforms in spring training. It was like you don't get to wear the jersey until you're in games that count.

 

57 minutes ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

As much as I love regular uniforms over spring training uniforms I've always felt this right here is the way it should be. These are practice games, wear a practice uniform. I find it weird to see the Tigers and Cardinals (picking these two because they do it almost every spring home game) wearing their beautiful home white uniforms in Lakeland and Jupiter Florida and not in Detroit or St Louis. They're not even in their real ballparks why should they wear their home uniforms?

 

Teams wore their normal uniforms in spring training for about 100 years.  It is not weird.

See, this is the problem with declining standards -- eventually you get a new "normal", and the real normal starts to be seen as strange.  This goes for warmups in spring training, for silly uniform combos, for long pants that hide the socks, for post-season patches on caps, and for everything else (including names on the back). 

If you ever start to minimise someone's objection to some form of harm done to the visual landscape by saying "Don't get excited; it's only ______________", then stop.  There's no "it's only"; there is no such thing as a small issue.

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25 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

 

Teams wore their normal uniforms in spring training for about 100 years.  It is not weird.

See, this is the problem with declining standards -- eventually you get a new "normal", and the real normal starts to be seen as strange.  This goes for warmups in spring training, for silly uniform combos, for long pants that hide the socks, for post-season patches on caps, and for everything else (including names on the back). 

If you ever start to minimise someone's objection to some form of harm done to the visual landscape by saying "Don't get excited; it's only ______________", then stop.  There's no "it's only"; there is no such thing as a small issue.

Well said, can't argue anything you've said here. It's normal to us because it's what I'm used to.

 

With that said, I prefer this...

Image result for detroit tigers spring training lakeland

 

to this...

Related image

Because if they aren't playing in Detroit, Michigan in a regular season game that counts then I don't think they should be wearing their home whites. Also, let me clarify that it's not about the quality of the uniform because clearly the home white is better looking, it's more about the setting around the uniform. In both pics above I made sure you could see the ballpark and other features around. Features that are not Comerica Park.

 

This pic below just seems odd to me...

Image result for detroit tigers spring training lakeland

 

This one seems to fit the setting more...

Related image

 

And this one totally threw me off... Why do spring training drills in a road jersey?

Image result for detroit tigers spring training lakeland

 

Anyways, I'll repeat those are my opinions and are strongly influenced by what I'm used to.

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3 hours ago, TVIXX said:

 

image.jpg

image.jpg

image.jpg

Top one is the correct graphic

middle on is wrong because the middle portion in between the m and b is supposed to be white just like in the bottom picture

 

I'll just add a little bit of background - in the 1990s, MLB Properties developed the first set of Cooperstown Collection logo files.  Somebody goofed on the Brewers' Illustrator logo, linking the white webbing to the background.  When the background was removed by a vendor setting up its product, the webbing disappeared as well.  

 

51cMVfrsdnL.jpg

 

It even made its way on to some on-field products, first the dugout jackets and jerseys:

 

usa-today-9240884.0.jpg

 

And finally New Era, which had been using the correct graphics, fell victim to this mistake as well.

ff_2273001alt2_full.jpg&w=600ff_2336641alt2_full.jpg&w=600

 

This problem was finally fixed a couple years ago, but persists because vendors are still using that old file.

 

It's great to see that the club itself is no longer using the bad graphic file.

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4 hours ago, the admiral said:

I liked teams not wearing normal uniforms in spring training. It was like you don't get to wear the jersey until you're in games that count.

 

I agree. Since the advent of Coolbase jerseys in 2007, the White Sox have eschewed their BP jerseys to wear the black alts during ST games. That was until last year, where they made a Spring version of their black alts with the '80s logo to be worn only during ST.

 

Anyway, before last year, the Sox would wear the crappy black alts for the entire spring, and then when they made their way home to start the season, it was refreshing to see them in their normal home and road jerseys. Of course, more than once they ruined that by wearing the crappy black alts on opening day.

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On 1/24/2017 at 2:30 AM, Ray Lankford said:

The Padres owner did a local podcast in San Diego, ostensibly to talk about the team's plans in a post-Chargers world but the uniforms came up and he made two interesting comments: that the team gets more requests for the RWB PCL jerseys than they do for brown (which is a claim that the last ownership group made as well) and he seemed to imply that they're going to look again once the team's rebuild is over. The latter comment was pretty vague but it's at least possible to infer that he's saying that the current jerseys are just placeholder.

 

So classic Padres management but at least we have another chance to be disappointed in a couple of years.

 

Of course they get more requests for red, white, and blue -- their corporate focus group approach values casual fans more than back to brown fans. And casual fans love cliches -- you can't get more cliche than red, white, and blue.

 

I believe it's inevitable with their sycophantic groveling to the navy. The Padres will finally stop looking like the Dodgers so that they can finally start looking like the Braves. 

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26 minutes ago, Dra--- said:

 

Of course they get more requests for red, white, and blue -- their corporate focus group approach values casual fans more than back to brown fans. And casual fans love cliches -- you can't get more cliche than red, white, and blue.

 

I believe it's inevitable with their sycophantic groveling to the navy. The Padres will finally stop looking like the Dodgers so that they can finally start looking like the Braves. 

They've been talking about going back to the PCL jerseys for five years and they've been sucking up to the military for more than 10 years. If they want to go RWB, what are they waiting for?

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On 1/27/2017 at 0:25 PM, ScubaSteve said:

God forbid the team have a little bit of fun in a preseason league. The Yankees' stauncy-ness have had an affect of the entire league, and are part of the reason the MLB is so stuck in the past. I'm with Bryce Harper. Make baseball fun again

 

Lord knows the team that produced thisthis, and this are the reason people are whining about bat flips.  The team that produced this, this, and this are the reason people are clamoring for teams to keep respectable and act like they've been there before.  And they're the team that has been there the most.  The team that produced this, this, and this are telling the new kids to grow up, shut up, and be mature.

 

Heck, one of the most vocal teams, especially in terms of the first issue, have been the austere, iconic franchise of the Texas friggin' Texans of Texas!

 

The truth of the matter is, each team should play to their strength.  Some teams have been around a long time, have won a lot, or have rather legendary homes.  These teams should have mature, no-nonsense, old-school looks.  (Way back when I explained why the Nets rebrand was so great I had better words than that, but I don't feel like finding that post.)  This is the Yankees, Dodgers, Tigers, Red Sox, Giants, Cardinals, Cubs...

 

Other teams just don't have that history.  Their identity should be completely different.  This is the argument I've had about the Indians.  While they're a charter franchise, their history and identity are more associated with being lovable losers.  Drew Carey, Major League, the Mistake By the Lake.  They're a punchline to a lot of people.  I'm not dumping on them, but they're much beloved in that identity, and it causes people to hope they do well and rally behind them when they do.  They shouldn't have a stuffy identity.  The big bubble lettering is perfect for them.  The boring block letter C with the early 20th century convention of red directly on blue feels ill-fitting.  These teams should have identities that have a little more fun, unique color palettes, unconventional features.  The same goes for the Padres, Rays, Marlins, Diamondbacks, Rockies, Blue Jays...

 

The Yankees aren't staid (the word I think you were looking for) just because they look good and like tradition.  They still have plenty of fun, and anyone who's been to a game knows that "cathedral" is just a commentary on importance, not temperment.  And if a weightlifter breaks a record and a white-collar guy breaks his back trying to lift the same weight, it's not the weightlifters fault.  They didn't make the Padres look like crap.  The Padres and the league did.

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On 2017-01-27 at 0:25 PM, ScubaSteve said:

 

God forbid the team have a little bit of fun in a preseason league. The Yankees' stauncy-ness have had an affect of the entire league, and are part of the reason the MLB is so stuck in the past. I'm with Bryce Harper. Make baseball fun again

I'm all for making baseball fun again, but that doesn't mean uniforms have to look like clown suits. 

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2 hours ago, Silent Wind of Doom said:

 

Lord knows the team that produced thisthis, and this are the reason people are whining about bat flips.  The team that produced this, this, and this are the reason people are clamoring for teams to keep respectable and act like they've been there before.  And they're the team that has been there the most.  The team that produced this, this, and this are telling the new kids to grow up, shut up, and be mature.

 

Heck, one of the most vocal teams, especially in terms of the first issue, have been the austere, iconic franchise of the Texas friggin' Texans of Texas!

 

The truth of the matter is, each team should play to their strength.  Some teams have been around a long time, have won a lot, or have rather legendary homes.  These teams should have mature, no-nonsense, old-school looks.  (Way back when I explained why the Nets rebrand was so great I had better words than that, but I don't feel like finding that post.)  This is the Yankees, Dodgers, Tigers, Red Sox, Giants, Cardinals, Cubs...

 

Other teams just don't have that history.  Their identity should be completely different.  This is the argument I've had about the Indians.  While they're a charter franchise, their history and identity are more associated with being lovable losers.  Drew Carey, Major League, the Mistake By the Lake.  They're a punchline to a lot of people.  I'm not dumping on them, but they're much beloved in that identity, and it causes people to hope they do well and rally behind them when they do.  They shouldn't have a stuffy identity.  The big bubble lettering is perfect for them.  The boring block letter C with the early 20th century convention of red directly on blue feels ill-fitting.  These teams should have identities that have a little more fun, unique color palettes, unconventional features.  The same goes for the Padres, Rays, Marlins, Diamondbacks, Rockies, Blue Jays...

 

The Yankees aren't staid (the word I think you were looking for) just because they look good and like tradition.  They still have plenty of fun, and anyone who's been to a game knows that "cathedral" is just a commentary on importance, not temperment.  And if a weightlifter breaks a record and a white-collar guy breaks his back trying to lift the same weight, it's not the weightlifters fault.  They didn't make the Padres look like crap.  The Padres and the league did.

I don't buy this for a second. The Marlins and Dbacks went a little bit outside of the box and public sentiment was extreme. Now the Yankees have added an element to a practice cap that still retains the team's general iconography and look at the reaction here.

 

Baseball is stuffy and not accidentally so. 

 

And it's funny that you mention the Padres since they have twice moved away from unique uniforms, in large part because the players hated them. 

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On the Twins Snapchat from Twins Fest today, they showed the clubhouse and lockers all set up for fans to see, with all the regular caps and jerseys set up nicely... and each locker had a matching camo hat... new uniform?

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5 hours ago, Ray Lankford said:

I don't buy this for a second. The Marlins and Dbacks went a little bit outside of the box and public sentiment was extreme. Now the Yankees have added an element to a practice cap that still retains the team's general iconography and look at the reaction here.

 

Baseball is stuffy and not accidentally so. 

 

I agree 100%. We already know the Yankees' rich history in those uniforms, by itself, makes those uniforms stand out. I think we all can pretty much agree that they don't need to change it. However, the whining from some people here about practice jerseys, cap logos, and how the jersey's shirttail looks is just way over-the-top. Suggestions that the Yankees should even resist small league-wide uniform changes shows you some people's mindset. They're some of the same people who think the Yankees should win every year because it's history and tradition that the Yankees always win, and it wouldn't be right if they lose. They're so wrapped up in history and tradition, they can't see MLB in any other way. No other sport league is as backward as MLB, and they wonder why they're losing so many young fans.

 

I wonder what people's reaction would be if they went with a pinstripe crown instead of brim:

 

unnamed-314.jpg

16084644-otd-august-16-babe-ruth-jpg.jpg

 

The people complaining about the pinstripe brim would have probably liked this just based on its history. As far as looks, however, why would a pinstripe brim look that much more crazy than a pinstripe crown?

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Also, why is Steinbrenner an arbitrator of the way things should be done? That guy was basically a heel for the majority of his reign. 

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2 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

I'm all for making baseball fun again, but that doesn't mean uniforms have to look like clown suits. 

 

A pinstripe brim is hardly a "clown suit." It's OK for teams to have a bit of fun every once in a while, and things like this are "a bit of fun." I'm not entirely thrilled about manufacturers' logos or league-wide promotions either, but it's relatively minor. It's hardly the kind of extensive alteration that some of the people here chalk them up to be.

 

Seriously some of the reactions on this board border on this (thanks, TFWiki):

 

Ruined_forever.jpg

 

...and that is not a healthy response to anything. Heck, when people complain about things like NOB's and other things that damn-near every other Big 4 sport does, things have reached critical mass in the pedantic complaining department. I refer to @hockey week for this post (in the context of the Chicago Blackhawks deleting the space between "Black" and "Hawks"):

 

 

On 6/1/2015 at 11:38 PM, hockey week said:

Wow, is there any kind of change that is good? From how people talk on here, every single change ever made was a massive downgrade, and I can't even chalk this up to nostalgia, just being downright ornery.

It's a space, people. It was nearly 30 years ago officially and around 50 years ago unofficially.

 
 

 

That's the way many of us react on the baseball threads, and that highlights a serious problem within some aspects of baseball fandom (i,e, the people who dismiss sabermetrics). The game evolves, and so must our attitudes towards its different facets (i.e. a bit of silliness with uniforms, like a pinstripe-billed cap in Spring bleeping Training - a time for whimsy if ever there was one). Tradition should balance out with fun. Otherwise stagnation ensues.

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1 hour ago, Ray Lankford said:

Also, why is Steinbrenner an arbitrator of the way things should be done? That guy was basically a heel for the majority of his reign. 

Because their fans get brainwashed each time they go to a game. They forget the standing ovation in the Bronx when word of his lifetime ban came out.

 

pg2_g_rivera_sy_576.jpg

Boss Dedication.JPG.opt453x340o0,0s453x340.JPG

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1 hour ago, daveindc said:

 

I agree 100%. We already know the Yankees' rich history in those uniforms, by itself, makes those uniforms stand out. I think we all can pretty much agree that they don't need to change it. However, the whining from some people here about practice jerseys, cap logos, and how the jersey's shirttail looks is just way over-the-top. Suggestions that the Yankees should even resist small league-wide uniform changes shows you some people's mindset. They're some of the same people who think the Yankees should win every year because it's history and tradition that the Yankees always win, and it wouldn't be right if they lose. They're so wrapped up in history and tradition, they can't see MLB in any other way. No other sport league is as backward as MLB, and they wonder why they're losing so many young fans.

 

I wonder what people's reaction would be if they went with a pinstripe crown instead of brim:

 

unnamed-314.jpg

16084644-otd-august-16-babe-ruth-jpg.jpg

 

The people complaining about the pinstripe brim would have probably liked this just based on its history. As far as looks, however, why would a pinstripe brim look that much more crazy than a pinstripe crown?

 

This is a bad post full of unsubstantiated generalizations. Don't do that. 

 

FWIW, a pinstripe crown >> pinstripe brim. A puddle of cat diarrhea with undigested clumps of fancy feast mixed in >> pinstripe brim. 

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12 minutes ago, Ray Lankford said:

I don't buy this for a second. The Marlins and Dbacks went a little bit outside of the box and public sentiment was extreme. Now the Yankees have added an element to a practice cap that still retains the team's general iconography and look at the reaction here.

 

Baseball is stuffy and not accidentally so. 

 

Well, the initial point was that any stuffiness cannot be laid solely at the feet of one franchise or even be attributed to them.  The portion about what teams should look like is a personal appraisal of the way things should be.  But, seriously, you refer to the Marlins and Diamondbacks as "a little bit outside the box"?  A little bit?  Really?

 

The Diamondbacks were the equivalent of the Buccos and Jags in NFL, looks that have been lambasted by that league.  Think back to the buffaslug and fishsticks in the NHL.  Baseball is not the only place that's going to look at failure and call a spade a spade.

 

6 minutes ago, daveindc said:

 

I agree 100%. We all know the Yankees' rich history in those uniforms, by itself, makes those uniforms stand out. I think we all can pretty much agree that they don't need to change it. However, the whining from some people here about practice jerseys, cap logos, and how the jersey's shirttail looks is just way over-the-top. Suggestions that the Yankees should even resist minor league-wide uniform changes shows you some people's mindset. They're some of the same people who think the Yankees should win every year because it's history and tradition that the Yankees always win, and it wouldn't be right if they lose. They're so wrapped up in history and tradition, they can't see MLB in any other way. No other sport league is as backward as MLB, and they wonder why they're losing so many young fans.

 

I wonder what people's reaction would be if they went with a pinstripe crown instead of brim:

 

unnamed-314.jpg

16084644-otd-august-16-babe-ruth-jpg.jpg

 

Honestly?  I don't think it looks as good as their standard cap, but it would likely be overall viewed as a neat throwback to the past.

 

1 hour ago, Ray Lankford said:

Also, why is Steinbrenner an arbitrator of the way things should be done? That guy was basically a heel for the majority of his reign. 

 

32 minutes ago, cmm said:

Because their fans get brainwashed each time they go to a game. They forget the standing ovation in the Bronx when word of his lifetime ban came out.

pg2_g_rivera_sy_576.jpg

Boss Dedication.JPG.opt453x340o0,0s453x340.JPG

 

There was good.  There was bad.  His hand-on style and interference with day-to-day operations were largely responsible for over a decade of futility.  When you lose someone, you remember the good times, and you remember the plusses.  That's the way it goes.  He did do some good for some people.  One thing he is missed for is the desire to do what he thought was the right decision no matter the cost.  That's why he's being admired in this context.

 

Not to mention, the loss of a big personality at the top of the organization and the focus on budgets cause people to become wistfull.

 

By the by, the park is called "The House that George/The Boss Built" because it was his baby.  Of course he's going to get a central focus.  And if you're complaining about the size, it's about the size and shape of the plaque for owner during the Ruth years and Hall of Famer Jacob Ruppert and team president Ed Barrow.

 

1024px-RuppertPlaque.jpg

 

Ed_Barrow_plaque.jpg

 

1 hour ago, SFGiants58 said:

A pinstripe brim is hardly a "clown suit." It's OK for teams to have a bit of fun every once in a while, and things like this are "a bit of fun." I'm not entirely thrilled about manufacturers' logos or league-wide promotions either, but it's relatively minor. It's hardly the kind of extensive alteration that some of the people here chalk them up to be.


I think in the mixture of topics of conversation in this topic, wires have gotten crossed from people to people.  We've talked about the Yankees, Mets, Padres, Diamondbacks, and I even brought in the Indians and Marlins.  I think some of the more extreme reactions, such as that clown suit comment are pointed towards the Diamondbacks and such uniforms, not a brim.

 

My opinion of the brim?  Meh.  I do like that the Yankees (at least used to) wear their home pinstripes for the first televised game in spring training.  You're seeing baseball again.  See baseball.  This cap I expect is only for home, and it should keep that way.  I hope they don't make an away version, because I really don't like when teams put gray on a cap to denote away.  It's a good convention for uniforms, but I hate it on the cap.  It just feels dreary.

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1 hour ago, cmm said:

Because their fans get brainwashed each time they go to a game. They forget the standing ovation in the Bronx when word of his lifetime ban came out.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, insert name said:

Remember, Steinbrenner fired the guys who built the late 90's dynasty one year before it began.

 

Excellent point. As beloved as Joe Torre became, it's really too bad that Buck didn't get to reap the benefit of having brought the Yankees back to respectability from their Dallas Green / Bucky Dent / Stump Merrill nadir.

 

At least he got to manage in an All-Star Game, as a recognition of an American League quasi-championship in 1994.

 

2 hours ago, daveindc said:

wonder what people's reaction would be if they went with a pinstripe crown instead of brim:

 

unnamed-314.jpg

16084644-otd-august-16-babe-ruth-jpg.jpg

 

My reaction would be that this is not nearly as bad.

 

It doesn't look as good as the regular cap; but it's not goofy like the pinstripe-brimmed cap.

 

White caps, whether with pinstripes or without, are tricky. I think the only teams that pulled of white caps are the Reds of the 1990s...

 

20170128_211942.jpg

 

...and the Philadelphia A's of the 1920s and 1930s.

 

57094.jpg

 

The A's reintroduced the white caps for managers and coaches when they switched to green and gold in Kansas City in the early 1960s, and kept them through to the early 1980s.  The white cap looked good with the Kansas City uniforms that they also used in the early Oakland years.

 

24377249003_6b861ee41f.jpg  Image5-46.jpg

 

But it didn't go well with the classic mid-70s A's uniforms.

 

20170128_213239.jpg  dickwilliams1.jpg

 

So, while a white-crowned Yankee cap wouldn't be offensive, it still would not be a good choice.

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The Brewers will wear the navy yellow glove jerseys for spring training

image.jpg

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