Stadium/Arena Saga Omnibus

[bosrs1]

Just now, dont care said:

Vegas (and the rest of the states that tap from lake Meade) have made vast improvements in water conservation and recycling. If they do run out it won’t be due to water usage but instead massive drought but by then the whole world would be ending because nothing would be getting water in the entire country.

 

 

Speak for yourself. We've just opened a giant desal plant near San Diego and have a couple more planned for the area. SoCal may be in the near desert and desert, but we've got direct access to the largest body of water on Earth. 

[Sport]

Agreed. As much as I love the new FC Cincinnati stadium the ideal perfect world solution would've been that it never had to be built and they'd play their home games at Paul Brown Stadium. Instead PBS takes up tons of space on our riverfront unused by the public for well over 300 days a year. We have 4 stadiums for 3 pro sports teams and a college football team who uses theirs maybe 7 times a year. It's pretty crazy when you actually think about what these teams do for the city and how often the facilities get used. 

 

I grow more horrified by each new stadium. The Rams spent 5 billion for Sofi and now all these rich guys think that's the going price and the next guy will spend 6 billion. The Rangers spent 1.2 billion to replace a 25 year old stadium and for the life of me I can't figure out where the money went. Somebody in Arlington, Texas is up to something fishy with that monstrosity. 

 

FC Cincinnati, however, just spent 250 million for a seating capacity around 26,000 and I think MLB teams should be taking notes from these Soccer Specific Stadiums. They're smaller, but they're still impressive and nice places to visits. There's gotta be ways to go about it that are economical yet still makes fans feel like they're in a big league facility. Take, IDK, 400 million and build a nice, intimate, contained facility with 30K seats, and put a simple sliding roof on it if you need AC because you live in a place too hot for people to exist. But there's absolutely no reason we need to be spending the GDP of St kitts and Nevis on a baseball stadium other than the billionaires want to measure wallets against other billionaires.  

 

 

[Red Comet]

Not to mention that solar powered desalination is becoming more and more of a thing.

 

Granted what MIT has is merely a small-scale functional prototype but I can only imagine that the demand for something like this plus drastic upscaling as fresh water sources get harder and harder to come by will only get bigger.   The conversation on water reminds me of what I heard about oil growing up and now the issue isn’t peak oil supply as it is peak oil demand. Difference in this scenario is that water is a hell of a lot more renewable than oil. You could probably repurpose those oil pipelines for water as oil demand keeps declining. Granted you’d have to clean the hell out of them but there you go.
 

If Vegas is going to decline, I don’t think water demand or supply will be the main factor so much as it is Vegas (and Nevada by extension) losing its exclusivity on sports gambling and thus down the line it’s relative exclusivity on high-end gambling+entertainment. And as more and more states legalize sports betting, the countdown to that time has long since begun.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Red Comet

[SFGiants58]

14 hours ago, bosrs1 said:

 

 

Before. Though SF emptying out into the east bay hasn’t been helping matters. The Giants made major inroads in the Bonds/roids era, sealed the deal with the World Series runs, and stuck the knife in the A’s locally when they killed San Jose. I mean more power to them as it was well played and the A’s owners have been clueless off field for 30 years now. 

If anything, the Tampa Bay threat was the best thing that could’ve ever happened for the Giants.

 

Hear me out, without the deal from the Naimoli group, the local group doesn’t by the team. No local group, no Bonds. No Bonds, no resurgence. No resurgence, no new stadium in China Basin.
 

That stadium (financed privately and with back door subsidies) made the domination of the Giants possible in that market, since the stadium was now a destination instead of a monument to Horace Stoneham’s immense stupidity. Without a “destination” park, the A’s fell behind for good. Add on the A’s failure to sustain success or make a big splash in free agency (like Bonds) and it’s no wonder why they fell behind.

[dont care]

1 hour ago, bosrs1 said:

 

 

Speak for yourself. We've just opened a giant desal plant near San Diego and have a couple more planned for the area. SoCal may be in the near desert and desert, but we've got direct access to the largest body of water on Earth. 

So that means even more water available for Vegas, I fail to see what your argument is?

[SFGiants58]

If you want to build a new stadium, just use the existing stadium and renovate it to the point of Theseus’ Ship. It worked for the Dolphins!

 

Seriously, Inter Miami should suck it up and play there. MLS in general should remove the SSS requirement from the league. 

[TBGKon]

17 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

If you want to build a new stadium, just use the existing stadium and renovate it to the point of Theseus’ Ship. It worked for the Dolphins!

 

Seriously, Inter Miami should suck it up and play there. MLS in general should remove the SSS requirement from the league. 

True, but Inter Miami built this on the site of old Lockhart Stadium in Fort Lauderdale, but still wants their own stadium in Miami proper.

 

[DG_YouKnowWhatThatMeans]

Lockhart looks great on TV and Miami will be underwater in like 10 years anyway. It's perfect just the way it is.

[bosrs1]

3 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

If anything, the Tampa Bay threat was the best thing that could’ve ever happened for the Giants.

 

Hear me out, without the deal from the Naimoli group, the local group doesn’t by the team. No local group, no Bonds. No Bonds, no resurgence. No resurgence, no new stadium in China Basin.
 

That stadium (financed privately and with back door subsidies) made the domination of the Giants possible in that market, since the stadium was now a destination instead of a monument to Horace Stoneham’s immense stupidity. Without a “destination” park, the A’s fell behind for good. Add on the A’s failure to sustain success or make a big splash in free agency (like Bonds) and it’s no wonder why they fell behind.

 

 

I don't think you'll find anyone who disagrees with that assessment. The Giants as they exist today are a direct result of that near move to what is now Tropicana Field. 

[bosrs1]

2 hours ago, dont care said:

So that means even more water available for Vegas, I fail to see what your argument is?

 

Not really. California's piece of the water rights to the Colorado River will still be utilized due to CA's own growing need and it's agricultural needs. And as they are senior to Nevada and Arizona's, California will continue to take priority. That's not going away even if CA takes some pressure off the water system in coming years from the cities from desal.  

[GDAWG]

3 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

If anything, the Tampa Bay threat was the best thing that could’ve ever happened for the Giants.

 

Hear me out, without the deal from the Naimoli group, the local group doesn’t by the team. No local group, no Bonds. No Bonds, no resurgence. No resurgence, no new stadium in China Basin.
 

That stadium (financed privately and with back door subsidies) made the domination of the Giants possible in that market, since the stadium was now a destination instead of a monument to Horace Stoneham’s immense stupidity. Without a “destination” park, the A’s fell behind for good. Add on the A’s failure to sustain success or make a big splash in free agency (like Bonds) and it’s no wonder why they fell behind.

 

Oracle Park is a beautiful stadium.  Better than that monstrosity the Rangers are playing.  

[bosrs1]

On 6/1/2021 at 3:00 PM, GDAWG said:

 

Oracle Park is a beautiful stadium.  Better than that monstrosity the Rangers are playing.  

 

Honestly I've always felt Oracle is overrated. If it hadn't been built on the water it's an otherwise cramped and somewhat pedestrian park. I went to Coors Field for the first time recently and was shocked how similar they feel, just with Coors being bigger, better sightlined and more spacious (and thus better IMO). That said, Oracle is still a nice park, and it's far and away better than it's nearest competitor across the Bay. 

 

And yes it's better than the Rangers new Paul Bunyan sized grill. 

[bosrs1]

2 hours ago, TBGKon said:

True, but Inter Miami build this on the site of old Lockhart Stadium in Fort Lauderdale, but still wants their own stadium in Miami proper.

 

 

What's wrong with that stadium that they want to bail on it already?

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

4 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

That stadium (financed privately and with back door subsidies) made the domination of the Giants possible in that market, since the stadium was now a destination instead of a monument to Horace Stoneham’s immense stupidity.

 

Hold on, there.  

Candlestick Park was highly flawed, and pales in comparison to the current park.  But if the old stadium was a monument to anything regarding Stoneham, it would be a monument to his wisdom at having taken Walter O'Malley's advice and moving the Giants to San Francisco, thereby preserving one of baseball's great rivalries, rather than moving the club to Minneapolis as he had originally intended to do.  Every fan of baseball history thus owes Stoneham a debt of gratitude.

There is a new book on Stoneham out that I will soon pick up; it is called Forty Years a Giant, by Steve Treder.  I am very disappointed that no audio book seems to exist.  However, I hope to listen in the coming days to an interview with the author on Tim Hanlon's "Good Seats Still Available" podcast.

[GDAWG]

36 minutes ago, bosrs1 said:

 

What's wrong with that stadium that they want to bail on it already?

 

They want their permanent home to be in Miami proper, not Fort Lauderdale.  

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

3 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

MLS in general should remove the SSS requirement from the league. 

 

It's not a requirement.

 

- signed, the Seattle Sounders and NYCFC

[waltere]

I may be wrong, but isn't the case with MLS that their preferred option is an SSS, but they'll allow otherwise as long as there's ownership crossover between the team and the stadium, because it's about not having their teams be tenants of somebody else. Hence how Arthur Blank's Atlanta FC are allowed to share Megatron's butthole with the Falcons, NYCFC sharing with the Yankees, and I assume the Sounders must therefore share owners with the Seahawks.

[Red Comet]

15 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

It's not a requirement.

 

- signed, the Seattle Sounders and NYCFC

NYCFC isn’t for lack of trying, though. Just a cursory look into the situation tells me I really need to look into that whole saga because it looks like one hell of a doozy. I don’t think NYCFC is in any danger of moving at all but it really is reminiscent of the DC United situation with RFK and that team’s near 2 decade long fight for a stadium site.

[SFGiants58]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

Hold on, there.  

Candlestick Park was highly flawed, and pales in comparison to the current park.  But if the old stadium was a monument to anything regarding Stoneham, it would be a monument to his wisdom at having taken Walter O'Malley's advice and moving the Giants to San Francisco, thereby preserving one of baseball's great rivalries, rather than moving the club to Minneapolis as he had originally intended to do.  Every fan of baseball history thus owes Stoneham a debt of gratitude.

 

That's not the stupid part. That was incredibly intelligent of him to do. His stupidity comes from not doing his due diligence when it came to scouting a proper stadium site and finding a better patch of land for such a venture.  That's why I called it a "monument to his stupidity." Maybe "monument to his naivete" would be more appropriate. 

 

1 hour ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

There is a new book on Stoneham out that I will soon pick up; it is called Forty Years a Giant, by Steve Treder.  I am very disappointed that no audio book seems to exist.  However, I hope to listen in the coming days to an interview with the author on Tim Hanlon's "Good Seats Still Available" podcast.

 

I'd recommend Home Team by Robert F. Garratt (emeritus professor of English and humanities at the University of Puget Sound) for a Giants-centered perspective. There's an audiobook available, which should be fun. 

[Sec19Row53]

On 5/31/2021 at 5:18 PM, the admiral said:

Plenty of daylight between "it's gonna take time to leave" and "insufficient infrastructure and the folly of only having one way to reach the premises." Any mass gathering takes time to leave. Getting out of a Brewers game is like eating crap for dessert.  I don't know to what extent they could fix it. There's not a transit culture in Wisconsin.

You're not wrong, but that doesn't mean you're all right.

 

I've been to Nationals Park 4-5 times. have you ever walked from Nats park to downtown DC? I have twice. Once because the game went to extras and the train didn't run when it was over, and once when we decided we didn't want to wait in the lines to get on board with everyone else, who coincidentally left at the same time as us because any mass gathering will take time to leave.

 

Anyway, my views have been made. I'm only making my horse deader. Where mass transit works, fantastic. Where it doesn't work, fantastic as well. I like more grey and less black/white.