MLB Stadium Saga: Oakland/Tampa Bay/Southside

[Gothamite]

On 10/19/2021 at 3:30 PM, OnWis97 said:

Was Milwaukee County Stadium built for the Braves or was it more of a Metropolitan Stadium situation?

 

On 10/19/2021 at 5:24 PM, the admiral said:

It was built to attract a baseball team and to accommodate the Packers, who I think were playing their Milwaukee games at State Fair Park prior to that. 

It was built jointly for the old American Association Brewers and to attract a major league franchise.  Some thought it might be the Braves, since they owned the Brewers and with it the territory, but the Browns also tried to move in before Bill Veeck sold them and they were Baltimore bound.

 

Packers were an afterthought at best.  But then again, so was the NFL in the early 1950s. 

[GDAWG]

The A's are much closer to a stadium solution than the Rays at this point.  

 

The year is 2031.  At this time, the A's had been in Las Vegas since 2024.  Meanwhile the Rays are still playing in the Trop after signing a year-by-year lease after their lease expired in 2027.  Their plans to split their season in Montreal has been constantly derailed by the MLBPA not wanting their players to split half a year in each city.    At this time, MLB becomes restless and angry because the Rays Stadium situation are the reason they have not expanded to 32 teams and are the only major league without 32 teams as both NBA and MLS have gone to 32 by that time.  

[SFGiants58]

Yeah, GDAWG, keep pounding that dead horse. 

[McCall]

Rays will be playing anywhere other than the Trop by 2028. My money's still on Nashville with Montreal being a decoy, but that's just my personal prediction. Regardless, they'll have something planned somewhere, whether in or out of the area, in time to get the hell out the first chance they get.

[BBTV]

8 hours ago, GDAWG said:

The A's are much closer to a stadium solution than the Rays at this point.  

 

The year is 2031.  At this time, the A's had been in Las Vegas since 2024.  Meanwhile the Rays are still playing in the Trop after signing a year-by-year lease after their lease expired in 2027.  Their plans to split their season in Montreal has been constantly derailed by the MLBPA not wanting their players to split half a year in each city.    At this time, MLB becomes restless and angry because the Rays Stadium situation are the reason they have not expanded to 32 teams and are the only major league without 32 teams as both NBA and MLS have gone to 32 by that time.  

 

THe number one thing the PA cares about is $, and if the team can show that splitting time will increase revenue and lead to higher payroll, it would be malpractice to hold them back.  They could also work out some kind of "inconvenience tax" or some insignificant bonus that they pay the players at the time of each move.  Just enough so that the PA can say that they "won".

[leopard88]

On 10/18/2021 at 3:10 PM, B-Rich said:

 

"If you build it, they will come"

 

Places this worked:

1. Minnesota (Metropolitan Stadium)

2. Indianapolis (Hoosier/RCA Dome)

3. Orlando (Orlando/Amway Arena)

4. St. Petersburg (Suncoast Dome/Tropicana Field)

5. St. Louis (TransWorld/ Edward Jones Dome)

6. Memphis (kinda/sorta, with The Pyramid as a temporary home, but  they had to agree to build the FedEx Forum to actually get a team).

7. New Orleans (New Orleans Arena/Smoothie King Center)

8. Oklahoma City (Ford Center/Chesapeake Energy Arena)

9. Las Vegas (T-Mobile Arena)

 

Places this didn't work:

1. San Antonio (Alamodome - never got an NFL franchise)

2.  Kansas City (Sprint/T-Mobile Center - hasn't got an NBA or NHL franchise yet)

3. Quebec City (Videotron Centre)

 

I assume your standard for this is that the stadium was actually built before a team committed to moving.  The plans were in place for M&T Bank Stadium for if/when a team signed on the dotted line, whether by expansion or relocation.  However, the stadium was not built until after the team agreed to move.

[B-Rich]

 

On 10/19/2021 at 2:30 PM, OnWis97 said:

Was Milwaukee County Stadium built for the Braves or was it more of a Metropolitan Stadium situation?

On 10/19/2021 at 4:24 PM, the admiral said:

It was built to attract a baseball team and to accommodate the Packers, who I think were playing their Milwaukee games at State Fair Park prior to that. 

15 hours ago, Gothamite said:

you forgot Milwaukee - the OG.

15 hours ago, Gothamite said:

It was built jointly for the old American Association Brewers and to attract a major league franchise.  Some thought it might be the Braves, since they owned the Brewers and with it the territory, but the Browns also tried to move in before Bill Veeck sold them and they were Baltimore bound.

 

Packers were an afterthought at best.  But then again, so was the NFL in the early 1950s. 

 

Yeah, Milwaukee County Stadium is kind of a fine line there.   

 

I mean, it WAS meant to attract an MLB team, BUT it had an existing tenant ( two, if you count the Packers).  I was originally including those building constructed purely on spec, with no solid guarantee of a tenant. 

 

Then again, not sure how the Alamodome  fits into that standard, because while it was clearly built to lure an NFL franchise, it was used as a ready-made home for the Spurs when it opened in 1993.

 

So...

 and have added County Stadium to the list.

 

1 hour ago, leopard88 said:

 

I assume your standard for this is that the stadium was actually built before a team committed to moving.  The plans were in place for M&T Bank Stadium for if/when a team signed on the dotted line, whether by expansion or relocation.  However, the stadium was not built until after the team agreed to move.

 

Correct.  Built on spec.

 

[leopard88]

1 minute ago, B-Rich said:

Yeah, Milwaukee County Stadium is kind of a fine line there.   

 

I mean, it WAS meant to attract an MLB team, BUT it had an existing tenant ( two, if you count the Packers).  I was originally including those building constructed purely on spec, with no solid guarantee of a tenant. 

 

 

This is similar to Memorial Stadium in Baltimore.

 

The transition from Municipal Stadium came in two stages.  The first phase began in 1949-50 with the intent of a building a single deck horseshoe  to house the AAFC Colts and attract an MLB team.  Since that didn't work, construction on the second deck began in mid-1953 with the new Colts ready to debut but no MLB team lined up.  The move of the (baseball) Browns wasn't finalized until that fall.

 

The description of the process on Wiki is interesting, particularly with regard to the initial transition (i.e., playing in the stadium while building parts of one stadium and still using parts of the old one). 

 

Quote

Spurred by the Orioles' success, and also by the new presence of professional football, the City chose to rebuild the stadium as a facility of "major league caliber", which they renamed Memorial Stadium in honor of the thousands of the city's dead of the recently concluded World War II. Baltimore mayor Thomas L.J. D'Alesandro, Jr. championed the new stadium project and overcame various legal and political hurdles which delayed progress on the project.

 

The initial plan called for a single, horseshoe-shaped deck to be built, with the open end facing north, and was designed to host football as well as baseball. It was engineered with enough strength to eventually support a second deck and a roof.

The lower deck reconstruction began in the spring/early summer of 1949 and was done in stages, first at the previously open south end of the stadium, and slowly obliterating the old Municipal Stadium stands, even as the International League Orioles continued playing on their makeshift diamond, along with the new Baltimore Colts of the former All-America Football Conference merged with the reorganized National Football League.

 

The old seating at the north end was retained for the pro and college football seasons that fall. By year's end, the horseshoe was sufficiently completed to allow the baseball infield to be relocated from the northwest corner of the field to the south end, and the Orioles opened the 1950 season at the newly oriented diamond. Construction continued on the single deck, until finally all the remnants of the old stadium were gone. The new facility could seat around 31,000.

 

With realistic rumors circulating of a return to the major leagues, the second deck construction was begun during the summer of 1953. First, two groups of sections were built facing the 50 yard line. Then they were extended toward the south end, completing the upper deck horseshoe. Additional plans to fully enclose the stadium and add a roof to the upper tier were never implemented, although an extra upper deck section would be added on each side in 1964.

 

Work accelerated in November 1953 when the St. Louis Browns of the American League were announced to be moving to Baltimore to become the new major league version of the Baltimore Orioles, to begin play in April 1954, the city's first major league franchise in over 50 years (not counting the Federal League experiment). The total cost of the multi-phase project was $6.5 million.

 

The expanded stadium was still under construction as of opening day in 1954, with the new entrance plaza and the new outfield lighting not yet completed. Work was finally done by late spring/early summer, the crowning touch being the large memorial plaque over the entrance.

 

A half-and-half photo from Phase One --

 

 

The second deck under construction with the Colts playing --

[tBBP]

I don't have pics, but you might can add what was originally Nashville Arena, now known as Bridgestone Arena, to the list. It was finished in '96 as a multi-use entertainment facility (with an obvious eye on attracting pro sports); in '98 the Predators moved in. 

 

May fit your criteria...

[sky1324]

Charlotte Coliseum was built for the city to stay in the ACC's basketball rotation, but its construction led to the Hornets. Slight gray area, but I believe this one counts.

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

On 10/18/2021 at 3:10 PM, B-Rich said:

 

"If you build it, they will come"

 

Places this worked:

1. Milwaukee (Milwaukee County Stadium)

2. Minnesota (Metropolitan Stadium)

3. Indianapolis (Hoosier/RCA Dome)

4. Orlando (Orlando/Amway Arena)

5. St. Petersburg (Suncoast Dome/Tropicana Field)

6. St. Louis (TransWorld/ Edward Jones Dome)

7. Memphis (kinda/sorta, with spec-built Pyramid serving as a temporary home, but  they had to agree to build the FedEx Forum to actually get a team).

8. New Orleans (New Orleans Arena/Smoothie King Center)

9. Oklahoma City (Ford Center/Chesapeake Energy Arena)

10. Las Vegas (T-Mobile Arena)

 

 

Also add the Kingdome, construction of which was begun in 1972.

 

 

[B-Rich]

 

On 11/5/2021 at 7:10 PM, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

Also add the Kingdome, construction of which was begun in 1972.

 

Not a case of the spec-approved and spec-built "if you build it, they will come."  More like  "we'll come, but you need to build a new stadium".   It was approved by Seattle voters AFTER the city was awarded the Pilots franchise.

 

Per Wikipedia:

 

In 1967, the American League granted Seattle an expansion franchise that would be known as the  Seattle Pilots. The league clearly stated Sick's Stadium was not adequate as a major-league stadium, and stipulated that as a condition of being awarded the franchise, bonds had to be issued to fund construction of a domed stadium that had to be completed by 1970; additionally, the capacity at Sick's Stadium had to be expanded from 11,000 to 30,000 by  opening day 1969, when the team was scheduled to begin playing. The Pilots were supposed to begin play in 1971 along with the Kansas City Royals. However, when  Senator Stuart Symington of Missouri got wind of those plans, he demanded both teams begin play in 1969.  The American League had birthed the Royals and Pilots as a result of the Kansas City Athletics moving to Oakland, and Symington would not accept the prospect of KAnsas City  waiting three years for baseball's return.

 

On February 13, 1968, King County voters approved the issue of $40 million in bonds to fund construction of the "King County Multipurpose Domed Stadium" with 62 percent in favor...

[The_Admiral]

I always thought that was an interesting wrinkle, how the A's screwed Seattle and helped Milwaukee because Symington did "nice antitrust exemption, shame if something happened to it" about Kansas City having to wait. I don't think we've ever had four true expansion teams join the league at once since, have we? The ABA and WHA teams came in fully formed or close to it (I think it was the Jets who got ransacked on the way in). Having one of the four fail in the first year would be a good reason why it hasn't happened since.

[SFGiants58]

5 minutes ago, the admiral said:

I always thought that was an interesting wrinkle, how the A's screwed Seattle and helped Milwaukee because Symington did "nice antitrust exemption, shame if something happened to it" about Kansas City having to wait. I don't think we've ever had four true expansion teams join the league at once since, have we? The ABA and WHA teams came in fully formed or close to it (I think it was the Jets who got ransacked on the way in). Having one of the four fail in the first year would be a good reason why it hasn't happened since.

Such a move also helped the White Sox stay in Chicago. The ‘68-‘69 squads, despite the AL not wanting to lose Chicago, were one foot out the door to Milwaukee. Getting the Brewers a year after the last of the County Stadium White Sox games didn’t hurt.

[Red Comet]

3 hours ago, the admiral said:

I always thought that was an interesting wrinkle, how the A's screwed Seattle and helped Milwaukee because Symington did "nice antitrust exemption, shame if something happened to it" about Kansas City having to wait. I don't think we've ever had four true expansion teams join the league at once since, have we? The ABA and WHA teams came in fully formed or close to it (I think it was the Jets who got ransacked on the way in). Having one of the four fail in the first year would be a good reason why it hasn't happened since.

I’m surprised we haven’t seen more threats of revoking anti-trust exemptions over issues like that. Politicians will gut their own mother over a few million more in pork for their 5 mile wide House district. What could be a bigger bit of pork than a pro sports franchise delivered by government mafioso tactics? Let’s go Royals!

[TBGKon]

A local sports talk show in Tampa was reporting some interesting details earlier this week with details from the Tweet below.  Of course, I won't believe anything until there some more tangible public knowledge, but some of these details make some sense.

 

 

 

Here's a synopsis of the highlights:

 

Stu Sternberg is bringing more money to the table for the new Ybor ballpark. Anywhere from $300-400 million. The Seminole Tribe would put up $200 million. City of Tampa would need $200-$300 million to build an open-air ballpark.

According to close sources, momentum is also gaining for Sternberg to FINALLY drop the Montreal Sister-City plan completely.

This shift of momentum comes right after the fact that newly re-elected Montreal mayor Valérie Plante, won the election against one of Stu Sternberg’s hopefuls who were willing to work with the Montreal group led by Stephen Bronfman to fund a new ballpark in Montreal.

The newly re-elected mayor Plante, is against funding a new stadium as well as the rest of Montreal tax payers after they put up a billboard sign near the Trop a couple weeks ago.

The OTHER BIG NEWS is that the current lawsuit against Stu Sternberg from the Rays minority owners has been amended.
Meaning the case would go into a jury trial instead of arbitration. This is BIG since this means there was enough evidence for litigation.

Although the Rays minority owners demand of Sternberg’s removal from Rays ownership is unlikely, the pressure is on Sternberg now.

Close sources from the league have informed JP, that MLB team owners including the commissioner, Rob Manfred were surprised when they read the lawsuit that Sternberg allegedly embezzled more than $500 million dollars from Rays Baseball LLC to his private company account.

Many other MLB owners have stated that the Rays are ruining the system, after the MLB Players Association have filed 2 grievances charges against the Rays, due to Sternberg hoarding the shared revenue given by other teams for his own profit gain instead of using it for the team’s payroll.

[The_Admiral]

Pocketing revenue sharing? The Marlins got caught doing that ten years ago. Florida, man.

[Red Comet]

So Sternberg is getting outed for robbing Peter to pay for his yacht and this absolutely exceptional idea of having two cities share one team is about to die? Feels good, man. 

[GDAWG]

So both the A's and Rays are close to solving their stadium issues. 

[FiddySicks]

5 hours ago, GDAWG said:

So both the A's and Rays are close to solving their stadium issues. 

So contraction is still on the table, huh?