Patriots Unveil New Uniforms

[MDGP]

27 minutes ago, Digby said:

 

Well yeah, but relative to the argument of "pop music is dumb" ... sure some years Ed Sheeran is the world's best selling artist, but some years it's Beyonce. Even rap radio eventually came around to Kendrick Lamar.

 

I mean, I think the issue is that generally people are picking the top of the top for these examples. I would say Kendrick Lamar and Beyonce both deserve to be at the top. But we always like to forget times where bands like Limp Bizkit top the charts (I realize they're not pop, but that's always been the most egregious example of "what the hell?" I can think of.)

[Digby]

that’s true of everything though. Most pop music is bad, but most indie rock is bad too, and I lived through running a college radio station in the post-Funeral era to prove it. 

[The_Admiral]

Even though I like pop music just like anyone else, I find poptimism so irritating and pernicious that I reflexively get my defenses up anyway and dummy myself into advocating for crap I don't even like.

[MDGP]

16 minutes ago, Digby said:

that’s true of everything though. Most pop music is bad, but most indie rock is bad too, and I lived through running a college radio station in the post-Funeral era to prove it. 

 

How DARE you!

 

Nah, that's extremely true. Back when I had more time and patience, I could easily spend 8-10 hours listening to music before finding anything even remotely worthwhile. And now everyone imitating Imagine Dragons or the 1975 has made it even harder to find quality stuff.

 

Honestly, I'm certainly guilty of Berkson's Paradox (Finding a negative trend between two traits where in actuality there's no trend because data points were ignored). Basically, bad music of other genres which generally get less airplay in general get ignored, and the genres with higher airplay and more artists appear to have more lower quality artists, since they're more visible.

 

Ultimately, I think its fair to say that there's certainly more bad music than there is good music, and more bad slips through and gets popular than good, simply because there's less good music. Inversely, most unpopular music is also bad, and then there's less good music that is unpopular.

[sky1324]

As someone who hasn't listened to the radio in probably over a year, I can say that most of the pop songs out today I'm not a fan of. I find most of it to be dumbed-down in a way I dislike, I prefer music with meaningful lyrics and excellent backing instrumentals. I know most people are against the band, but I will forever maintain that Imagine Dragons is one of the most talented artists getting significant airtime in the past decade. Their singles (especially Thunder, I love the song but I understand why people don't) get overplayed to hell and back and that leaves the band in a tight spot. However, most of their non-singles are really freaking good and I encourage you to listen to their albums if you haven't. 

 

I think this is actual a great example that can be tied back to sports logos: pieces of art/media that get overexposed are more prone to criticism because more people see them, and oftentimes it gets to the point where it becomes in vogue to make fun of "thing" without doing your own research and seeing whether or not the criticism is justified with a deeper look and critical analysis. Sometimes, people just don't like whatever it is, and that's ok. What's not ok is blasting something without doing your due diligence and coming to an informed conclusion.

[panthers_2012]

These threads are getting detailed every day. First, the Los Angeles thread, now this one... Quarantine is making us go crazy

[Mingjai]

13 hours ago, monkeypower said:

This thread started for the Patriots jerseys, pivoted into a discussion on brutalist architecture and is now about sharing hot takes about music (did you know if an artist/band has mainstream success, they’re actually bad?)
 

Do you think that anybody who posted on page one of this thread could have fathomed where we would be by page 76?

And yet we still can’t find a way to get the Sports Logo General Discussion forum re-merged back into Sports Logo News forum. They never should have been separated in the first place.

[SFGiants58]

29 minutes ago, panthers_2012 said:

These threads are getting detailed every day. First, the Los Angeles thread, now this one... Quarantine is making us go crazy

 

Like I said, this is because nobody gets any responses in Lounge threads anymore. Maybe making it visible again to the public would help? 

 

Also, this board is pretty conversational and conversations tend to drift after somebody makes an analogy. Once an analogy comes out, we leap on that analogy and its background. It's the way the conversations work here and in a discord chat. Heck, this board would make more sense as a discord server sometimes.

[UnclearInitial]

10 hours ago, oldschoolvikings said:

 

Yeah, the Seahawks' uniforms are Spinal Tap. They started out an innocent little folk duo singing "Cups and Cakes" and ending up a ridiculous heavy metal band dancing around a tiny Stonehenge.

I’d say the Seahawks uniforms are Kanye West. They changed what people thought uniforms could do by wearing monochrome full time in the early 2000s and using unconventional colors, even  wearing lime green jerseys once. Then they were the first to change to Nike’s commercial design and were arguably the most successful among those who went the modern route at the turn of the decade, inspiring a string of copycats who opted for modern uniforms. But they featured gimmicks galore such the sublimated feather pattern and the annoyingly  lurid and self promoting Nikebox, and some things that left everyone scratching their head like the mismatched TV numbers. And their one time lime jersey stunt has evolved into being covered in lime green from

shoulder to toe  once a year. Even now opinion is pretty split among those who think they are perfect modern uniform, those who will never like that kind of uniform and those who think that it has some good pieces but they should drop the tired act of wearing monochrome and behave more conventionally. Those uniforms represent a team that was dominant for a while but some remember  their biggest blunder  more than the dominance. 

[BBTV]

As someone who regularly goes to indie shows in Philly and Brooklyn, and has no idea who the current pop stars are, this seems a little hypocritical for me to say, but it's assinine to say "if it's mainstream, it's bad."  It implies that you feel that you're smarter, or have better taste, than the majority of people in the world, which is a really arrogant view.  Dismissing something because it's "mainstream" is a great way to deny yourself of a large catalog from which to select a few items that would suit your fancy, even if what you like is only a drop in the ocean.  Just like not everyone takes graphic design / sports logos as seriously as many of us do, not everyone takes music as seriously, and is satisfied with something they can have on in the background and just bob their heads to - and guess what - that's fine!  Putting them down for that makes you an  hole.

 

Also, for everyone ragging on Jay-Z and saying he has no talent, he's built a billion-dollar empire and is married to a hotter / more successful woman than you are, so clearly he has some talents / abilities that you lack.  Is his music great?  That's subjective.  I don't know, because I haven't really listened to it.  But this whole thread just sounds like a bunch of jealous nerds dissing anyone that's more successful than them.  Not everyone that's put Jay-Z down fits that description, but many do.

 

Come at me, but the more you're upset about this opinion, the more it proves my point.

 

EDIT: I feel this way about people that dis logos by saying "I could have done that!", or music "I could write lyrics better than that!".  Guess what - you didn't.  If you're so good, why aren't you doing it, while thousands of others are?

[BBTV]

Also, just to get somewhat back on topic - 

 

The Patriots old numbers were pretty ugly, but for better or worse, I associated them instantly with the greatest dynasty of the 21st century.  

 

Block numbers are an improvement, but they should have changed the trim so that the block numbers don't look like chinese knockoffs of the dynasty-era ones.  Had they simply eliminated the inner outline, they'd be fine.  Instead, by keeping them the same except the shape, it sucks.

[MDGP]

 

2 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

. . . not everyone takes music as seriously, and is satisfied with something they can have on in the background and just bob their heads to - and guess what - that's fine!  Putting them down for that makes you an  hole.

 

I mean, I'll respond since this is clearly directed at me. At no point did I disparage anyone for their taste in music. Sure, I said that I think most mainstream music is bad, but also said that most non-mainstream music is bad. In fact, I also specifically stated that people shouldn't care about my opinion and if people want to like (objectively or subjectively) bad music then they should do it proudly.

 

Next time read the actual conversation before you come in riding in calling people arrogant holes.

 

[Digby]

1 hour ago, BringBackTheVet said:

EDIT: I feel this way about people that dis logos by saying "I could have done that!", or music "I could write lyrics better than that!".  Guess what - you didn't.  If you're so good, why aren't you doing it, while thousands of others are?

 

There was a great Courtney Barnett song about this on her last album.

 

The old "three chord rock band" bit cuts both ways, and accurately so -- there is both skill to take the dead-simple and make it appealing, and it's also why I can't help but roll my eyes when people dismiss pop music as dumb when rock bands have followed the same template for 50 years.

 

 

1 hour ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Also, just to get somewhat back on topic - 

 

The Patriots old numbers were pretty ugly, but for better or worse, I associated them instantly with the greatest dynasty of the 21st century.  

 

Block numbers are an improvement, but they should have changed the trim so that the block numbers don't look like chinese knockoffs of the dynasty-era ones.  Had they simply eliminated the inner outline, they'd be fine.  Instead, by keeping them the same except the shape, it sucks.

 

YES. This is it. This is why I'd rather they just keep the dated-but-established old typeface. Between the standard block typeface for the names and the slightly-off new number typeface, you throw those two on a uniform that already existed and yeah, "knockoff" is exactly it.

[BBTV]

1 hour ago, MDGP said:

 

 

I mean, I'll respond since this is clearly directed at me. At no point did I disparage anyone for their taste in music. Sure, I said that I think most mainstream music is bad, but also said that most non-mainstream music is bad. In fact, I also specifically stated that people shouldn't care about my opinion and if people want to like (objectively or subjectively) bad music then they should do it proudly.

 

Next time read the actual conversation before you come in riding in calling people arrogant holes.

 

I have no idea who you are, and my post was not targeting one person.  Since you took offense, I guess it hit home. 

[MDGP]

9 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

I have no idea who you are, and my post was not targeting one person.  Since you took offense, I guess it hit home. 

 

I mean, I'll take it on good faith you didn't read the thread that closely. The whole conversation started because I made a glib statement that aligns semi-generally with my point of view on music. Other people were making similar statements that were actually directed towards me, so yours came across as another one of those to me.

[BBTV]

I'm not saying it wasn't about you.  I don't know.  It's a response to the general tone of the last few pages, and I don't recall user names.  I'm not going back and reading and noting names, but I'll assume your posts contributed some to the sentiments that I was targeting, as did many others.

[The_Admiral]

5 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Also, for everyone ragging on Jay-Z and saying he has no talent, he's built a billion-dollar empire

 

Yeah, we're aware, because that's what all his crappy music is about. 

[El Scorcho]

5 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Also, just to get somewhat back on topic - 

 

The Patriots old numbers were pretty ugly, but for better or worse, I associated them instantly with the greatest dynasty of the 21st century.  

 

Block numbers are an improvement, but they should have changed the trim so that the block numbers don't look like chinese knockoffs of the dynasty-era ones.  Had they simply eliminated the inner outline, they'd be fine.  Instead, by keeping them the same except the shape, it sucks.

 

I complained a lot about the number change earlier in this thread and I fully agree with this. 

 

Going from a unique and distinguishable font, even with all it's problems, to a fairly standard block style is a move that makes them look less distinguishable as the "Patriots", especially since they have been the preeminent franchise of the last 20 years. Using the same outline pattern gives an almost uncanny valley problem where it looks really out of place. 

 

IMO they'd have been better off doing something entirely different to fit the new uniforms better, or sticking with the immediately recognisable font. 

[The_Admiral]

I believe the rule is that in order to invoke Worthington's Law you need to acknowledge by name that you are invoking Worthington's Law. Way to go, Einstein!

[JLJ]

28 minutes ago, the admiral said:

 

Yeah, we're aware, because that's what all his crappy music is about. 

Just when I thought I was out, you pulled me right back in! I don’t know how far back you go with his music, but this take definitely ain’t it.