Los Angeles NFL Brands Discussion

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

6 hours ago, Lights Out said:

Bottom line: the Spanii spent the last 33 years fielding a dysfunctional losing franchise (256-272 overall record under Spanos ownership, including the playoffs; 0 rings and only 12 winning seasons) while treating their paying customers like dog under their shoe.

 

I would only point out that, between 1964 and 1980, the Giants went 84-156-4 with no playoff appearances. The fans sure hated the Mara family at that point. But then the team turned it around, and became a playoff mainstay and a champion.

 

1 hour ago, 63Bulldogs63 said:

I think the rest of his post clearly shows the misconception that east coasters have about the west coast. Especially about California. 

 

Not having lived in San Diego or anywhere on the West Coast, I get my impressions from friends who have lived there. It is those people (who have lived or currently live in L.A., Palm Springs, Fresno, San Francisco, and Oakland) who conveyed to me the idea that driving enormous distances does not mean the same thing to West-Coasters as it does to people on the East Coast.

 

4 hours ago, bosrs1 said:

Since you admit you've never been to San Diego and are a New Yorker let me enlighten you. The move of the Chargers to LA would be as if the Giants or Jets moved to Philly, Baltimore or Boston (not across the river from Manhattan to suburban New Jersey, that would have been if the Chargers had gone through with their proposed moves to suburban Chula Vista or Oceanside as they discussed 15 years ago). Would you as a New Yorker continue to root for the Philadelphia Jets or Giants?

 

I'll mention that Philadelphia seems a lot closer than it used to, ever since I made two round trips there and back by bicycle, and rode there three times total.

 

Anyway, if my team moved to Philly, but continued to be available on TV and radio just as before, and if their uniforms were the same, and if their players and coaches were the same, then I think that I would probably continue to root for them, despite my sadness over the move.

 

 

56 minutes ago, oldschoolvikings said:

I have a better analogy for Ferdinand.  Let's say your girlfriend dumps you, and then starts dating your brother.  Hey, what's the problem?  You still get to see her all the time, right?  She's probably still hanging around the house, maybe she's there for breakfast a few days a week.  If you think about it, it might be better, now that your brother has to pay for her on dates.

 

Wait, in this analogy, is she still letting me have sex with her? Because that's the only way an analogy to fans still being able to watch their team every week makes any sense.

 

By the way, since @bosrs1 admitted that he stopped reading my post after the first paragraph, let me present this to him:

 

11 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

So San Diego's Charger fans will be fine, if they choose to be. And, if they're smart, they'll see that continuing to express support might in the long run get the team to move back, as the Raiders and the Rams did in response to enduring fan loyalty in the abandoned cities of Oakland and Los Angeles, respectively, and as the Raiders could have done with Los Angeles had they elected to do so.

 

The point here is to play the long game.  The Chargers' move to Los Angeles will in all likelihood be a total disaster. Keeping up support in San Diego will only make it more likely that the team will eventually move back, under either the current ownership or the next owner.

 

49 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

11 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

And, whereas New York City looks down at New Jersey currently, when the Giants went out there in the mid-1970s, New York City was perceived to be in decline; so at that time it was suburban New Jersey which sneered at us.  At that historical moment, New York City was the inferior partner in the cultural rivalry with New Jersey

 

Hate to go off-topic, but no.  No it wasn't.

 

Not even in the "Drop dead!" era. 

 

Not in your view, nor in mine. But that was the prevailing view at the time. New Jersey saw itself as superior to a New York City whose day had come and gone; and many in New York City agreed with this. Even the Yankees seemed destined to eventually leave the City for a suburban New Jersey location.

 

Since then, of course, people have come to their senses on the issue, and have begun to value New York City -- and all cities -- much more.

[oldschoolvikings]

7 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

 

Wait, in this analogy, is she still letting me have sex with her? Because that's the only way an analogy to fans still being able to watch their team every week makes any sense.

 

 

Hold on... you and your brother are having sex with the same woman?

 

Euuuw.

[IceCap]

We need to stop equating sports fandom to romantic relationships.

[leopard88]

5 minutes ago, oldschoolvikings said:

 

Hold on... you and your brother are having sex with the same woman?

 

Euuuw.

 

I assume this sort of thing happens all the time in the romance books with Fabio on the cover.  The second couple is just discreet about it.

[colortv]

4 hours ago, bosrs1 said:

 

 The move of the Chargers to LA would be as if the Giants or Jets moved to Philly, Baltimore or Boston 

 

It's not remotely like that.

 

LA and San Diego are in the same state, have OC as sort of a connecting "hub", and there is not anywhere near any kind of rivalry between them as the east coast cities.

[Gothamite]

42 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

Not in your view, nor in mine. But that was the prevailing view at the time. New Jersey saw itself as superior to a New York City whose day had come and gone; and many in New York City agreed with this. Even the Yankees seemed destined to eventually leave the City for a suburban New Jersey location.

 

Well, that's highly doubtful, but to the extent such a thing was even discussed in the abstract it was because land was more plentiful in New Jersey.  Because the location was itself less desirable.  Steinbrenner did make noises about that move, but it was in the 1990s, long after the "Drop dead!" era.

 

I think your recollection of this particular history is highly suspect.   Even in that era, nobody seriously considered New Jersey culturally superior to New York City.  The bridge-and-tunnel crowd never went in the opposite direction.

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

2 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

I think your recollection of history here is highly suspect.   Even in that era, nobody seriously considered New Jersey culturally superior to New York City.  The bridge-and-tunnel crowd never went in the opposite direction.

 

No one ever made the argument that New Jersey was culturally superior.  But perceptions of New York City's crime (perceptions which had a kernel of truth in them, but were grossly exaggerated by racism and by a disinformation campaign run by the police union) led many to consider suburban New Jersey to be a more desirable place on the whole the New York City, notwithstanding Broadway, the museums, and all of the City's other cultural treasures.

[bosrs1]

27 minutes ago, colortv said:

 

It's not remotely like that.

 

LA and San Diego are in the same state, have OC as sort of a connecting "hub", and there is not anywhere near any kind of rivalry between them as the east coast cities.

 

Well from the San Diego of rivalry... you're wrong. Plus Pendleton acts as a natural barrier between the two regions in addition to Orange County both in reality and socially. San Diego fans as a general rule hate LA. There's a reason pretty much every LA region team other than the Ducks ignores San Diego.

 

And yes they're both in the same state. But then so are San Francisco and LA so what's your point? If you're from California you know it's really 4/5 different states all smashed together. Not some huge harmonious amalgam that loves everything about every other part of itself.

[Gothamite]

11 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

whereas New York City looks down at New Jersey currently, when the Giants went out there in the mid-1970s, New York City was perceived to be in decline; so at that time it was suburban New Jersey which sneered at us.  At that historical moment, New York City was the inferior partner in the cultural rivalry with New Jersey, just as San Diego is the inferior partner in the cultural rivalry with Los Angeles.

 

You said that.  And I'm telling you that it's abject nonsense.  

 

As is equating the relationship between SF and Santa Clara with that of LA and San Diego.

[bosrs1]

51 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

Not having lived in San Diego or anywhere on the West Coast, I get my impressions from friends who have lived there. It is those people (who have lived or currently live in L.A., Palm Springs, Fresno, San Francisco, and Oakland) who conveyed to me the idea that driving enormous distances does not mean the same thing to West-Coasters as it does to people on the East Coast.

 

 

I'll mention that Philadelphia seems a lot closer than it used to, ever since I made two round trips there and back by bicycle, and rode there three times total.

 

Anyway, if my team moved to Philly, but continued to be available on TV and radio just as before, and if their uniforms were the same, and if their players and coaches were the same, then I think that I would probably continue to root for them, despite my sadness over the move.

 

 

 

So you admit you have no experience in San Diego, nor any clue about how people in SD feel about LA. Enough said. And yes driving between vast distances in the west isn't quite the same in the east, but that's referring generally to driving between LA and Sac or SF Bay Area where you can get on the 5 up the San Joaquin Valley and haul ass at 90 mph with nary a CHP officer in sight. Try doing that driving the 120+ mile hell that is the 5/405 between San Diego and Los Angeles/Carson/Inglewood. On weekends that journey is a 5 hour trek on a good day. Weeknight... well I hope you have a War and Peace on MP3.

 

As for being a New Yorker who would root for a turncoat Philly team... well I'd wager good money you're in a very tiny minority.

[colortv]

14 minutes ago, bosrs1 said:

 

Well from the San Diego of rivalry... you're wrong. Plus Pendleton acts as a natural barrier between the two regions in addition to Orange County both in reality and socially. San Diego fans as a general rule hate LA. There's a reason pretty much every LA region team other than the Ducks ignores San Diego.

 

And yes they're both in the same state. But then so are San Francisco and LA so what's your point? If you're from California you know it's really 4/5 different states all smashed together. Not some huge harmonious amalgam that loves everything about every other part of itself.

 

There's no greater difference between LA proper and San Diego culturally speaking than there is between LA and Ventura, OC, or Riverside counties which are all part of the greater LA area.

 

In fact I'd say theres a GREATER difference between LA proper and OC, Ventura, and Riverside culturally speaking given how rural Ventura and Riverside are and how suburban OC is.

 

[bosrs1]

6 minutes ago, colortv said:

 

There's no greater difference between LA proper and San Diego culturally than there is between LA and Ventura, OC, or Riverside counties which are all part of the greater LA area.

 

In fact I'd say theres a GREATER difference between LA proper and OC, Ventura, and Riverside culturally speaking given how rural Ventura and Riverside are and how suburban OC is.

 

 

Have to disagree being on the San Diego side of things, I just have to assume you don't spend much if any time down here. LA and San Diego have very little in common beyond both being regions in SoCal. Hell politically and socially San Diego has more in common with OC than it does LA proper but with our characteristic slower beachier red state military vibe. But again, SD is also a different region/market/metro so it's neither here nor there.

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

7 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

11 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

whereas New York City looks down at New Jersey currently, when the Giants went out there in the mid-1970s, New York City was perceived to be in decline; so at that time it was suburban New Jersey which sneered at us.  At that historical moment, New York City was the inferior partner in the cultural rivalry with New Jersey, just as San Diego is the inferior partner in the cultural rivalry with Los Angeles.

 

You said that.  And I'm telling you that it's abject nonsense.  

 

Ah, yes; I did say "cultural rivalry".  Oops!

 

It was a poor choice of words, because I didn't mean to suggest that people were claiming that New Jersey was superior in terms of the arts.  I meant to express what I said later: that the consensus was that New York City was past it, that visiting for a Broadway show was all well and good, but no one wanted to live there, and, what's more, that banks and financial firms, perhaps even the stock market, were eager to get out.  

 

Of course, I never subscribed to this view; but, in the late 1970s, I was in the distinct minority, whereas nowadays my loving view of my city is the predominant one.

[colortv]

7 minutes ago, bosrs1 said:

 

Have to disagree being on the San Diego side of things, I just have to assume you don't spend much if any time down here. LA and San Diego have very little in common beyond both being regions in SoCal. Hell politically and socially San Diego has more in common with OC than it does LA proper but with our characteristic slower beachier red state military vibe. But again, SD is also a different region/market/metro so it's neither here nor there.

 

OC and San Diego are very similar culturally but, when we talk about "LA" we generally talk about the greater LA area which includes OC, Riverside, Ventura.

 

Can you imagine NY sports talk radio discussing something like this if the Giants moved to Philly or Boston?

 

I'm not talking about whether they are or aren't, just the fact that this would even pop up as a discussion point.

 

 

[bosrs1]

5 minutes ago, colortv said:

 

OC and San Diego are very similar culturally but, when we talk about "LA" we generally talk about the greater LA area which includes OC, Riverside, Ventura.

 

Can you imagine NY sports talk radio discussing something like this if the Giants moved to Philly or Boston?

 

 

 

Don't let the sports talk radio guys in SD fool you. They're just suggesting crap like that because they literally don't know what else to talk about. 1090 and 1360 (this being 1360 the former Chargers flagship) were so heavily invested in the Chargers before they left, at the expense of the Padres, SDSU, USD, the Gulls, etc... and the Padres in particular being in a full rebuild that won't pan out if it does until 2021, that the radio hosts are left to make up controversy and the like that doesn't exist. They literally don't know anything about the Padres or SDSU. What's funny though, is listening to them take callers. And it's almost entirely people telling them "eff the Chargers" or "talk about something else". I fully expect one of the two stations will fold in the next 12 months.

[colortv]

1 minute ago, bosrs1 said:

 

Don't let the sports talk radio guys in SD fool you. They're just suggesting crap like that because they literally don't know what else to talk about. 1090 and 1360 were so heavily invested in the Chargers before they left, at the expense of the Padres, SDSU, USD, the Gulls, etc... and the Padres in particular being in a full rebuild that won't pan out if it does until 2021 that the radio hosts are left to make up controversy and the like that doesn't exist. What's funny though, is listening to them take callers. And it's almost entirely people telling them "eff the Chargers" or "talk about something else".

 

I added this video in case you missed it, with the same point about this not conceivably being a discussion topic in NY if the Giants moved to Philly or Boston:

 

 

[bosrs1]

33 minutes ago, colortv said:

 

I added this video in case you missed it, with the same point about this not conceivably being a discussion topic in NY if the Giants moved to Philly or Boston:

 

 

 

Again, as I said above. This is again 1360. And that's Nick Hardwick above, former Charger and guy who claimed he was done with the team when they moved to LA but then was offered a job by the Chargers as a broadcaster in LA and jumped at it like a money grubbing weasel, he literally never talked about anything but the Chargers before they left. And now he's back to it since they pay him to do so desperately trying to drum up some goodwill for the team in SD since they've clued in that LA doesn't give two :censored:s about them. Same reason they hired LT. Hardwick has no clue how to talk about college football, baseball, hockey, etc... though even if he wasn't on the LA Chargers payroll. His station in no way represents actual San Diego and he'll likely be out of a job before long when his station, or it's main competitor 1090 fold.

 

 

 

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

1 hour ago, bosrs1 said:

And yes driving between vast distances in the west isn't quite the same in the east, but that's referring generally to driving between LA and Sac or SF Bay Area where you can get on the 5 up the San Joaquin Valley and haul ass at 90 mph with nary a CHP officer in sight. Try doing that driving the 120+ mile hell that is the 5/405 between San Diego and Los Angeles/Carson/Inglewood. On weekends that journey is a 5 hour trek on a good day. Weeknight... well I hope you have a War and Peace on MP3.

 

I see. Well, that makes sense.  

 

Anyway, please note that I acknowledge that I know nothing about your part of the country,  and have not expressed any doubt about your descriptions of the differences, cultural and otherwise, amongst the various regions of Southern California. My only point was that a fan can watch the Chargers every week on television, as he/she did before, and can take comfort in the same uniforms, the same players, and the same coach. Call it "living in a fantasy world" if you like; but all of sports fandom involves fantasy to some degree.

 

Also, you can't dispute my point about playing the "long game", about supporting the Chargers in the hopes that they will return. The Rams are back in Los Angeles because the team's owner saw that a significant number of their L.A. fans remained loyal. The Chargers are going to flop badly at the gate in L.A.; so their coming back to San Diego is not at all impossible.  Therefore, it makes sense to maximise that possibility by staying on board with them.

 

1 hour ago, bosrs1 said:

As for being a New Yorker who would root for a turncoat Philly team... well I'd wager good money you're in a very tiny minority.

 

Maybe. I was in the tiny minority who still loved New York in the late 1970s; and I am in a few other tiny minorities, as well.

 

Also, I admit that I have developed a bit of a "thing" for Philly over the past few years, ever since I made my first bike trip there.  

 

 

 

Their bike lanes are bountiful, and are distributed all throughout the city. Also, the drivers are much more polite and less aggressive than the animals who incompetently pilot automobiles in New York.

 

Anyway, going on distance alone, Philadelphia, despite being a separate city with its own identity, feels like it's in my back yard.  So, if my team moved there and changed nothing else, I really think that I could handle it.

[Rockstar Matt]

49 minutes ago, bosrs1 said:

 

Again, as I said above. This is again 1360. And that's Nick Hardwick above, former Charger and guy who claimed he was done with the team when they moved to LA but then was offered a job by the Chargers as a broadcaster in LA and jumped at it like a money grubbing weasel, he literally never talked about anything but the Chargers before they left. And now he's back to it since they pay him to do so desperately trying to drum up some goodwill for the team in SD since they've clued in that LA doesn't give two :censored:s about them. Same reason they hired LT. Hardwick has no clue how to talk about college football, baseball, hockey, etc... though even if he wasn't on the LA Chargers payroll. His station in no way represents actual San Diego and he'll likely be out of a job before long when his station, or it's main competitor 1090 fold.

 

 

 

 

Uh, what? A money grubbing weasel? If someone offered you a well-paying job in your profession you'd be stupid to not take it. Are we really getting to the point of being mad at people working for the Chargers just because they moved 100 miles north? They had no say in the matter; they weren't the douche-canoes that decided to move. That's ridiculous.

 

With my current job, I've worked on some Chris Brown music videos despite the fact he's a women beating, cocaine snorting, douchebag. But at the end of the day, a job's a job and to advance my career, I cannot afford to decline any opportunities. 

[bosrs1]

33 minutes ago, Rockstar Matt said:

 

Uh, what? A money grubbing weasel? If someone offered you a well-paying job in your profession you'd be stupid to not take it. Are we really getting to the point of being mad at people working for the Chargers just because they moved 100 miles north? They had no say in the matter; they weren't the douche-canoes that decided to move. That's ridiculous.

 

With my current job, I've worked on some Chris Brown music videos despite the fact he's a women beating, cocaine snorting, douchebag. But at the end of the day, a job's a job and to advance my career, I cannot afford to decline any opportunities. 

 

No, we're mad at him because he spent the better part of the spring talking about how the Chargers were dead to him, how he'd quit their broadcast team in solidarity with SD, San Diego was everything, soil first, Chargers were traitors, the Spanos family were scum, etc... Hell Ted Leitner described him as a man of integrity because of it. Only to have him suddenly change his mind when the LA Chargers and Spanos family pulled him aside and tossed some extra green his way to get him back on the radio broadcast team in LA. Now suddenly all is forgiven and he's back to talking about the Chargers positively on the radio like nothing happened.

 

For a good example of why we're mad at him... this was Nick Hardwick 8 months ago...