This is the UFL! (XFL/USFL Merger)

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

40 minutes ago, raz said:

40,000 one week, 31,000 the next week, 22% drop. I don't know how that's out of context. 

 

The appropriate context is the fact that an attendance of 31,000 is still excellent. That's far more important than the drop from the all-time record.

 

It would be a mistake to consider that huge attendance to be some kind of problem. To expect the team to set a new record every home game is not reasonable.

[raz]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

The appropriate context is the fact that an attendance of 31,000 is still excellent. That's far more important than the drop from the all-time record.

 

It would be a mistake to consider that huge attendance to be some kind of problem. To expect the team to set a new record every home game is not reasonable.

Not expecting them to set records each week, but also not expecting them to lose a fifth of their crowd, either. 

 

Look, I'm hoping the league makes it. I was a fan of the previous XFLs and the USFLs (especially the 1980s version), and the AAF and whatever else you want. But I can't ignore a dropoff like that. 

 

Let's hope for the best. 

[McCall]

23 minutes ago, raz said:

Not expecting them to set records each week, but also not expecting them to lose a fifth of their crowd, either. 

 

Look, I'm hoping the league makes it. I was a fan of the previous XFLs and the USFLs (especially the 1980s version), and the AAF and whatever else you want. But I can't ignore a dropoff like that. 

 

Let's hope for the best. 

No it's because you're ignoring the context. There was nothing wrong with the attendance. You don't need to "ignore" the dropoff, just realize it's not what you're making it out to be.

[raz]

OK bro. 

[Sec19Row53]

It IS possible to be critical of the league and NOT be hoping for its demise. Those are not exclusive positions.

[McCall]

7 minutes ago, Sec19Row53 said:

It IS possible to be critical of the league and NOT be hoping for its demise. Those are not exclusive positions.

No one ever said it was. We were being critical of his saying that the Battlehawks dropoff was concerning, ignoring the context and the fact that they still drew more than twice the next highest attendance.

[Sec19Row53]

1 minute ago, McCall said:

No one ever said it was. We were being critical of his saying that the Battlehawks dropoff was concerning, ignoring the context and the fact that they still drew more than twice the next highest attendance.

But is drawing twice the next highest figure, when THAT FIGURE isn't significant, in itself significant?

[raz]

50 minutes ago, Sec19Row53 said:

But is drawing twice the next highest figure, when THAT FIGURE isn't significant, in itself significant?

[Sodboy13]

If your gate receipts are declining and your TV ratings are flat in year three, where is your money coming from, outside of hoping that Dwayne's charisma can coerce Fox Sports executives into fronting them the cash for a few seasons? At some point your business actually has to be in business, even in Silicon Valley's edgiest cases of dullards throwing venture capital at whatever is new.

 

Honestly, forget Birmingham and Arlington, maybe they should have headquartered spring football in St. Louis from the jump.

 

I am reminded of the final sketch of the terrible teenage garage band from Kids in the Hall:

"We were so close. We had sixty people at a gig."

"Yeah, sixty people!"

"That's a salad bar."

[GDAWG]

16 minutes ago, Sodboy13 said:

If your gate receipts are declining and your TV ratings are flat in year three, where is your money coming from, outside of hoping that Dwayne's charisma can coerce Fox Sports executives into fronting them the cash for a few seasons? At some point your business actually has to be in business, even in Silicon Valley's edgiest cases of dullards throwing venture capital at whatever is new.

 

Honestly, forget Birmingham and Arlington, maybe they should have headquartered spring football in St. Louis from the jump.

 

I am reminded of the final sketch of the terrible teenage garage band from Kids in the Hall:

"We were so close. We had sixty people at a gig."

"Yeah, sixty people!"

"That's a salad bar."

 

Arlington is the headquarters because the XFL got a good deal (and the UFL continued it) and also DFW International Airport has access to every major city in America, including the other 7 UFL cities.  

[Sykotyk]

3 hours ago, raz said:

Not expecting them to set records each week, but also not expecting them to lose a fifth of their crowd, either. 

 

Look, I'm hoping the league makes it. I was a fan of the previous XFLs and the USFLs (especially the 1980s version), and the AAF and whatever else you want. But I can't ignore a dropoff like that. 

 

Let's hope for the best. 

Cardinals were playing a home game that afternoon. 41k there. 31k at the BattleHawks game. 

 

And technically you could have left the 1130am BattleHawks game and gotten into the Cards game about halfway through from their 130pm first pitch. But it was also free full zip jacket day at Busch for the first 25k fans.

 

St. Louis had a reason their fan support was so high. Same as Baltimore in the CFL USA debacle. Ufl/xfl/USFL should've done everything they could to get teams in Oaklandand San Diego and played into the same anti-nfl sentient that has presented itself in St. Louis. 

[MJWalker45]

15 hours ago, raz said:

40,000 one week, 31,000 the next week, 22% drop. I don't know how that's out of context. 

Season openers almost always are better attended than any other game of the year when you're not a Big 4 league. The 7 PM start also helps when compared to an 11:30 AM start on the same day that the Cardinals are playing just up the road. With only one of their remaining home games starting before 2 PM against a pretty good Defenders team, I would expect around 32,500-35,000 per game regardless of Battlehawks record going forward. And if that Brahmas game is for the division title, expect 40,000+.

16 hours ago, McCall said:

7k  average across 5 games (equivalent of a team's full season home schedule) is not good at all. That's only 1k more than the Vegas Vipers averaged last year. I still think Michigan is most hurt by the new success of the Lions, and one could argue the same with Houston and the Texans. Two Texas teams is enough for now (as long as the Renegades pick it up, then it a few years, it could be San Antonio as the lone star in the state... clever punnery if I do say so myself). 

I think Vegas had other issues besides just stadium attendance just based on some of the conversations that were being had after the season regarding Cashman Stadium, Sam Boyd and other possible locations. Unless you have a way of proving another location is willing to get the amount of butts in seats that they want, the UFL is going to stay put for at least one more year. 

 

[PTrudellJr]

On 4/20/2024 at 6:03 PM, DCarp1231 said:

Putting two games on at the same time on the same channel is certainly a choice.

I believe that the late merger finalization really put the screws to finding venue dates and broadcast times for all teams and so doubling up games for 3 weeks was a necessity.  

[PTrudellJr]

On 4/21/2024 at 3:59 PM, McCall said:

Houston and Michigan need to be moved. NFL markets that aren't drawing well. Birmingham should be doing better, but going up against the A-Game (which drew 72k) one week and poor weather another, I'll give them some leeway. But Michigan and Houston have been low all 3 home games between them.

Moving teams would be the death knell for the league.

 

Holding a gun to fans heads and tell them in year one, "If you don't show up, we'll yank your team" is no way to win support.  Why bother if the team's not going to be here next year?  Why would ANY fan support a team in that league if that's the threat?  

 

They didn't have an offseason to market the league because of the merger.  Michigan didn't start selling tickets until 2 weeks before kickoff.  Houston's in a new venue since TDECU is being renovated right now.

 

TV numbers are good, better than either league at this time last season.  It's not time to hit the panic button.

[McCall]

9 hours ago, PTrudellJr said:

Moving teams would be the death knell for the league.

 

Holding a gun to fans heads and tell them in year one, "If you don't show up, we'll yank your team" is no way to win support.  Why bother if the team's not going to be here next year?  Why would ANY fan support a team in that league if that's the threat?  

 

They didn't have an offseason to market the league because of the merger.  Michigan didn't start selling tickets until 2 weeks before kickoff.  Houston's in a new venue since TDECU is being renovated right now.

 

TV numbers are good, better than either league at this time last season.  It's not time to hit the panic button.

This isn't year 1. Michigan has been around for 3 years and this is their 2nd playing IN Detroit. This is Houston's 3rd year playing in Houston when counting the 2020 XFL season. These are NFL markets. If they're not showing interest now, they're probably not going to. Seattle and DC showed continued interest. Seattle's only problem was geography. It's not "hitting the panic button". It's fixing the market situation while you still can. Move them to markets that may actually be wanting a team, like in Ohio (Columbus or Canton) or Orlando, etc. Wait too long, and THAT could be the death knell for the league.

[Red Comet]

That Arlington-Houston game:

[MJWalker45]

On 4/21/2024 at 10:03 PM, Sodboy13 said:

If your gate receipts are declining and your TV ratings are flat in year three, where is your money coming from, outside of hoping that Dwayne's charisma can coerce Fox Sports executives into fronting them the cash for a few seasons? At some point your business actually has to be in business, even in Silicon Valley's edgiest cases of dullards throwing venture capital at whatever is new.

 

Honestly, forget Birmingham and Arlington, maybe they should have headquartered spring football in St. Louis from the jump.

 

I am reminded of the final sketch of the terrible teenage garage band from Kids in the Hall:

"We were so close. We had sixty people at a gig."

"Yeah, sixty people!"

"That's a salad bar."

I believe Arlington and Birmingham have more fields available for training,  as well as hotel space near those areas. What I believe needss to happen next season, is that the teams need to have a home practice facility during the season. Just being there full time where they can do events during the week instead of the day before or the day of will be a tremendous boost for the league and the players. But I will say one thing that just hit me based on a Battlehawks fan's Reddit post:

Pretty much every UFL team has at least a minor league baseball or hockey team around them, if not a major league team that they could have been planning a UFL night once they set the league schedule. I think if the Brahmas showed up at the San Antonio Missions game the night prior to Week 8 with a ticket booth inside the gate, and players throwing out pitches, they could get a few more fans showing up for the Sunday afternoon game. For next season or really even this season, possibly plan to have a gameday suite giveaway at the game, which is something they do outside the game on gameday.  Arlington has the Rangers right there as do the Roughnecks with the Astros and the Panthers with the Tigers and Redwings, so no reason not to use them for attention as well. Birmingham has already done this with the Barons who play nearby in Hoover. 

[MJWalker45]

2 hours ago, Red Comet said:

That Arlington-Houston game:

The two worst teams playing on FS1, that number makes sense. If it were on Fox I'd be more worried. This week will have two games on at 7 PM again, and I'd expect similar numbers with the Stallions at Roughnecks and Brahmas at Renegades. At least there shouldn't be a repeat of the weather delay this weekend. There's a 14% chance of rain but thunderstorms aren't expected until Sunday. 

5 hours ago, McCall said:

This isn't year 1. Michigan has been around for 3 years and this is their 2nd playing IN Detroit. This is Houston's 3rd year playing in Houston when counting the 2020 XFL season. These are NFL markets. If they're not showing interest now, they're probably not going to. Seattle and DC showed continued interest. Seattle's only problem was geography. It's not "hitting the panic button". It's fixing the market situation while you still can. Move them to markets that may actually be wanting a team, like in Ohio (Columbus or Canton) or Orlando, etc. Wait too long, and THAT could be the death knell for the league.

It's also a new league and a new schedule. As for Houston, locals know that last year's Roughnecks are in San Antonio now. That is throwing some XFL and USFL people off as well, because they figured the league season is either over, or not started yet. Granted the people that are thinking like that are probably the guy who showed up for one game and didn't pay much attention to it, or they are Lions fans and only want to watch those games in person. However, if this is their max level after next season, then you have to move them somewhere else. But I think you avoid Canton unless they prove that they want a team there. How to do that is the question. Do you take deposits and see how many people actually make that choice, knowing that if they don't meet the number you're looking for that you'll have to refund them?  I don't like the idea unless you know that you absolutely want to put a team there and you want the local community to confirm that they are all in with the idea before you go with that decision.  I know Greg Williams talked about jumping up to 12 teams next year, but unless the coaching staffs and players are pressing for it, I don't think it occurs next year. And if it does happen, I think you'll see a few Thursday or Friday night games during the year to help make up for lack of TV slots on the weekends, no matter what time of year the season starts.

 

[monkeypower]

On 4/21/2024 at 10:50 PM, Sykotyk said:

St. Louis had a reason their fan support was so high. Same as Baltimore in the CFL USA debacle. Ufl/xfl/USFL should've done everything they could to get teams in Oaklandand San Diego and played into the same anti-nfl sentient that has presented itself in St. Louis. 

 

As a non-watcher of this league, but still reads through this thread because I'm morbidly intrigued by the stories of the spring football boom and bust cycle (Will this be the one to finally work? Who knows?), it does seem like a mistake in going to existing NFL markets.

 

I understand it's a bit of a catch-22 of sorts of wanting to be in major markets in order to be considered "major league" and getting major league tv deals, but it doesn't seem like a great plan to be a lesser, professional and unrelated, football team in current NFL markets.

[McCall]

2 hours ago, monkeypower said:

 

As a non-watcher of this league, but still reads through this thread because I'm morbidly intrigued by the stories of the spring football boom and bust cycle (Will this be the one to finally work? Who knows?), it does seem like a mistake in going to existing NFL markets.

 

I understand it's a bit of a catch-22 of sorts of wanting to be in major markets in order to be considered "major league" and getting major league tv deals, but it doesn't seem like a great plan to be a lesser, professional and unrelated, football team in current NFL markets.

I'm for a mix. Mostly non-NFL markets plus some NFL ones that are successful, like DC. I would like to see them get back into New York City, namely once NYCFC's new stadium is completed.