The Patriots are cheaters!

[illwauk]

Man...what in the world has been going on since I left for yet another FTX? Sheesh!

I'm not chiming in on this whole Patriots-spying fiasco, but having read all this, I have this one question, since in one instance I wasn't even born when it occured and in the other two I was too young to remember:

Was there this much hate and resentment towards the 1970's Pittsburgh Steelers, the 1980's San Francisco 49ers, and the early 1990's Dallas Cowboys when they were media darlings and winning championships left and right? I'm just curious.

I remember plenty of hatred of the Niners and ESPECIALLY the Cowboys.

I wasn't around for the Steelers' run, but from what I've been able to gather, they weren't hated on as much (outside of Cincy, Houston and especially Cleveland) because everyone's hate was directed towards the Raiders. And the Steelers were more-less seen as working class heroes at a time when the NFL still gave a damn about its blue-collar fans...

[Brass]

Now...this begs the question....Had this been...say....the Bears or Lions or Texans....would the league have come down harder with a punishment?? I am not claiming preferential treatment or anything...but it being N.E. and all...its very possible

I think the punishment would have been the same, but you wouldn't see so much b.s. from people with their own petty issues with the team.

As a fan, I'm glad they were punished, they got caught doing something illegal, but online lately you'd think they'd been running a kidney smuggling ring out of Belichick's basement and sexually assaulting several board member's mothers.

Also, because they got caught, somehow, every fan of every team they've beaten in the last few years will use this as justification for why their team lost, rather than... you know... not playing football as well.

I love sports, but sometimes, I hate sports fans.

Well, at least you know you don't have to worry about Broncos fans using that.

Who won?

After quite a few one-sided against the Patriots, the Broncos won. But not after Champ Bailey got his kicked out.

[speedy]

"I think they should forfeit, man," said punt returner Reno Mahe. "We won the Super Bowl."

You're kidding right? Come on Eagles, you're better than that. Dogging on a team because they ran screens on you half the time you blitzed. Yeah, they knew what was coming, the Patriots never excessivly used the screen pass before they played you.

As much respect as I've lost for the Patriots this past week, I'm starting to lose respect for players on teams who have lost opening their mouths. Mahe, you should be more concerned about losing to my dismal Packers and preparing yourself for a better game this week than calling out a team who outplayed you 3 years ago.

Fortunatly, Donovan McNabb like usual, saved face with this quote...

"One thing people are forgetting is that even if you have the answers to the test, you still have to take the test," he said. "If they have an idea of what's coming, those guys still have to be able to execute the play."

Reno Mahe was laughing when he said that, went on to make jokes about exchanging his ring, and went on to say that it doesn't matter and you can't go back etc. You took half of a sentence completely out of context and generalized the opinions of an entire team.

You're kidding right? Com on, Speedy, you're better than that.

I didn't remove anything, the article I read, there was nothing about him joking around or smiling. The article had that one quote from Mahe, and a quote from a defensive player I can't remember now, hense the generalization. If there was more to his comments, they should've included them and should've included his attitude while he was saying them. You're right BBTV, I am better than that, and I appologize.

[Audiodrama]

Some really nice comments from Bill Simmons in his latest column -- it pretty much sums up how I feel as a Pats fan (and I'm sure how other Pats fans feel as well):

Link

...I thought the penalty was slightly excessive but fair. I was hoping they'd lose a second-rounder, but whatever. They cheated, they were warned, they kept cheating, they got caught, they paid the price. (And a steep price at that.)

I did think The Turncoat (aka Eric Mangini) should have been fined for blowing the whistle on Belichick and then inexplicably shaking his hand afterward. Stick to your guns, Mr. Mangineous. If you're going to sell out your old boss during the game, what better way to show your disgust than eschewing the postgame handshake and just walking off the field? What's the point of shaking hands? Hey, great game, congrats on the win. ... By the way, I ratted you out in the first quarter, sorry about that. My dad was more outraged about that two-faced move than anything since the Doc Rivers extension.

That reminds me, everyone's talking about the other teams and implying they were the victims. What about Pats fans? How did we deserve this? Our favorite team cheated, we lost a No. 1 pick, our coach pulled the football version of the Watergate break-in, our entire mini-dynasty has been tainted according to the outside world. ... Seriously, what did we ever do other than support a perpetually crappy franchise with a bad stadium for years and years and years? Do you think we wanted any of this to happen? All week, I almost felt like I did something wrong just because I rooted for these guys. Well, no more. Call them cheaters, call them villains, call them the evil empire, but it's still my team. You can't disown your team just because it does something sleazy, just like you can't disown a close family member for doing something sleazy. Your team is your team. I hate what happened, I think it has been terribly overblown, we paid the price, and we're moving on. At least until Belichick's version of the 17-minute missing Nixon tape is released.

[rams80]

Super Bowl XXXVI*

Thats all I have to say.

I knew somebody was gonna make a stupid comment like that. I'm surprised it took this long.

How is it stupid?

I mean if they find evidence that there was cheating during that game why not put an * behind it? Just saying.

There isn't evidence of it. That's my point. Everyone's assuming they've been doing this for years, when there have only been two reported instances of it. TWO. Against the Packers and Jets. Nothing about past seasons, nothing about Super Bowls. Check the facts before you accuse.

How do we know there isn't? The Rams did play the Patriots in the regular season that year; for all we know they had all the Rams' signals on tape.

Unfortunately we'll never know the truth there...because the NFL isn't going to delve into something that happened six years ago. Especially if it involves cheating in the Super Bowl. Especially when that Super Bowl had rather one-sided officiating that might suggest Tags wanted a certain team to win and a certain team to lose.

It also helps that the Rams have one of the smallest fan bases in the league.

I will say this from what I've seen online....between the officiating and spygate, the unofficial Rams Nation narrative of Super Bowl XXXVI is going to simply be..."We was robbed."

The official punishment is about as good as we could expect. Belichek probably should have been suspended for a game or two, but that's it. As for the draft picks....how many Patriots picks made the team this year? A first rounder is the only one that would even register.

If Belichek takes any lesson from the fiasco though, it should be this....act like a complete d*ck and tool to your former employees, and you run the risk of having your dirty laundry aired out for all to see. Maybe he'll take that to heart.

EDIT-I said "official" punishment. Given the relative leniency of what we've seen, I wouldn't be surprised if the Patriots crash out in their first playoff game this season.

2nd EDIT-After reading the column...it's Tye Hill, idiot, and besides an admittedly monumental screw up that resulted in 7 points for Carolina, he pretty much held Steve Smith in check. He's not too far off the mark on Linehan: bad head coach, though...

[Eye]

Super Bowl XXXVI*

Thats all I have to say.

I knew somebody was gonna make a stupid comment like that. I'm surprised it took this long.

How is it stupid?

I mean if they find evidence that there was cheating during that game why not put an * behind it? Just saying.

There isn't evidence of it. That's my point. Everyone's assuming they've been doing this for years, when there have only been two reported instances of it. TWO. Against the Packers and Jets. Nothing about past seasons, nothing about Super Bowls. Check the facts before you accuse.

How do we know there isn't? The Rams did play the Patriots in the regular season that year; for all we know they had all the Rams' signals on tape.

Unfortunately we'll never know the truth there...because the NFL isn't going to delve into something that happened six years ago. Especially if it involves cheating in the Super Bowl. Especially when that Super Bowl had rather one-sided officiating that might suggest Tags wanted a certain team to win and a certain team to lose.

It also helps that the Rams have one of the smallest fan bases in the league.

I will say this from what I've seen online....between the officiating and spygate, the unofficial Rams Nation narrative of Super Bowl XXXVI is going to simply be..."We was robbed."

The official punishment is about as good as we could expect. Belichek probably should have been suspended for a game or two, but that's it. As for the draft picks....how many Patriots picks made the team this year? A first rounder is the only one that would even register.

If Belichek takes any lesson from the fiasco though, it should be this....act like a complete d*ck and tool to your former employees, and you run the risk of having your dirty laundry aired out for all to see. Maybe he'll take that to heart.

EDIT-I said "official" punishment. Given the relative leniency of what we've seen, I wouldn't be surprised if the Patriots crash out in their first playoff game this season.

2nd EDIT-After reading the column...it's Tye Hill, idiot, and besides an admittedly monumental screw up that resulted in 7 points for Carolina, he pretty much held Steve Smith in check. He's not too far off the mark on Linehan: bad head coach, though...

Who the hell is Belichek? For someone who hates the Patriots as much as you say you do, I would think that you would be able to spell their coach's name correctly.

[rams80]

Super Bowl XXXVI*

Thats all I have to say.

I knew somebody was gonna make a stupid comment like that. I'm surprised it took this long.

How is it stupid?

I mean if they find evidence that there was cheating during that game why not put an * behind it? Just saying.

There isn't evidence of it. That's my point. Everyone's assuming they've been doing this for years, when there have only been two reported instances of it. TWO. Against the Packers and Jets. Nothing about past seasons, nothing about Super Bowls. Check the facts before you accuse.

How do we know there isn't? The Rams did play the Patriots in the regular season that year; for all we know they had all the Rams' signals on tape.

Unfortunately we'll never know the truth there...because the NFL isn't going to delve into something that happened six years ago. Especially if it involves cheating in the Super Bowl. Especially when that Super Bowl had rather one-sided officiating that might suggest Tags wanted a certain team to win and a certain team to lose.

It also helps that the Rams have one of the smallest fan bases in the league.

I will say this from what I've seen online....between the officiating and spygate, the unofficial Rams Nation narrative of Super Bowl XXXVI is going to simply be..."We was robbed."

The official punishment is about as good as we could expect. Belichek probably should have been suspended for a game or two, but that's it. As for the draft picks....how many Patriots picks made the team this year? A first rounder is the only one that would even register.

If Belichek takes any lesson from the fiasco though, it should be this....act like a complete d*ck and tool to your former employees, and you run the risk of having your dirty laundry aired out for all to see. Maybe he'll take that to heart.

EDIT-I said "official" punishment. Given the relative leniency of what we've seen, I wouldn't be surprised if the Patriots crash out in their first playoff game this season.

2nd EDIT-After reading the column...it's Tye Hill, idiot, and besides an admittedly monumental screw up that resulted in 7 points for Carolina, he pretty much held Steve Smith in check. He's not too far off the mark on Linehan: bad head coach, though...

Who the hell is Belichek? For someone who hates the Patriots as much as you say you do, I would think that you would be able to spell their coach's name correctly.

Well he's usually called Satan over here, but I figured that wouldn't work...

[STL FANATIC]

Wanna read Belichick make an idiot of himself?

NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS HEAD COACH BILL BELICHICK

PRESS CONFERENCE

September 14, 2007

BB: I know there is a lot of interest here on the situation and the decision last night, but as I stated, it's over and we're moving on. Right now, all of my energy and focus and attention is on the San Diego Chargers and our game Sunday night. That's where we're at.

Q: The statement says it?s from you. Did you craft the statement yourself?

BB: It's my statement.

Q: You wrote it?

BB: It's my statement, yes.

Q: Why would you not read that statement or actually speak that statement?

BB: There was quite a bit of interest and we had a number of requests from the media to respond to the decision, so I tried to do that.

Q: But in essence, you never actually stood in front of people and expressed your remorse, if that's the right word.

BB: I tried to act in a timely way. Right now, it's San Diego and that's what we're moving on to.

Q: Do you want to address the fans?

BB: We're moving on to San Diego. That's what I'm addressing. All my energy is on the San Diego Chargers.

Q: Moving on to San Diego, is there something that you will be doing different than you did last weekend with your video assistant? Will he not be on the sidelines any more? Will he not be videotaping?

BB: That is correct. That?s correct.

Q: What won't be happening?

BB: We will change our procedure on that.

Q: Can you describe what the procedure will be as you focus on San Diego?

BB: We're getting ready for the Chargers. That's plenty to get ready for. They're a great football team. They're coming in here, had a big win against Chicago, and we're doing what we can to get ready for them. Everything else is in the past. We?re done with it.

Q: Can you explain how you misinterpreted the rule?

BB: It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. We're moving on. The decision has been made. We?re moving on.

Q: But you lost a draft pick over it and you were fined a half-million dollars. It does matter.

BB: It already happened. So right now, we're focusing in on what's in front of us, and that's the Chargers. We?re moving on.

Q: Would you care to comment on people suggesting this has happened in the past, and does it taint your record in the past?

BB: All my focus is on the San Diego Chargers. I'm just working to get ready for that team.

Q: Do you get to pay a half-million dollars in installments or do you have to pay it up front?

BB: I'm just thinking about the Chargers.

Q: With the Chargers in mind, has this become a distraction?

BB: We're going to try to do the best we can to get ready the next couple [of days]. We have Friday, Saturday and all day Sunday. We?re going to do all we can to be ready and put our best effort out there. That's me and everybody involved in the game for this team, so that?s what we're doing.

Q: Why didn't the statement apologize to the Jets?

BB: We're moving on. San Diego.

Q: How difficult is it to move on?

BB: My focus is on the Chargers. I understand there is interest out there. I understand that there are a lot of stories, but everything is in the past. It's been decided. It's over with and we?re headed to San Diego.

Q: How much of that do you figure if you win games, everything else will be forgotten?

BB: There is nothing you can do about the past.

Q: Do you feel the punishment was appropriate?

BB: It doesn't make any difference.

Q: Has this affected your ability to prepare this week at all?

BB: At points, it's taken a little time out of it, but we'll be ready. We'll do what we've done, what we normally do. We?ll do what we do today and Saturday and Sunday. We know we're going to have to be at our best against San Diego. They're good in all three phases of the game. That's where we need to be.

Q: What do you say to fans that have stood by the team and now want to hear from you?

BB: I think I?ve addressed it and right now, it?s time to address the Chargers. I think that is what is most important thing for our football team, is to address the San Diego Chargers and that?s what we?re going to do.

Q: Has it been a challenging week to focus on the Chargers?

BB: I think everybody is well aware of what the Chargers can do and how good they are and what we?ll need to do. I think we?re well aware of that.

Q: One point on what the Commissioner agreed with you was that this was not done to gain a competitive advantage during the game, so why would you do this at all?

BB: He made his ruling so I think what he had to say was self-explanatory and I wouldn?t want to speak for him.

Q: He agreed with you, so what was the advantage at all?

BB: The whole situation is behind us and we?re moving on to the San Diego Chargers. That?s where we?re going.

Q: Do you feel it affects your reputation of you and your team?

BB: I?ve said what I had to say about it. I?m moving forward. I?m moving on.

Q: Is there any reason to think other teams are doing this sort of thing?

BB: I?m going to coach the New England Patriots. That?s what I?m doing.

Q: Could you have fathomed last Sunday morning, that this is where you would be a week later?

BB: It doesn?t really make any difference. Right now, everything that has happened is in the past. It?s been ruled on. It?s over and I?m moving forward. My focus and energy is on the San Diego Chargers. If there are any questions on that, I?d be happy to try to work with you on them.

Q: Do you feel that Commissioner Goodell gave you ample opportunity to explain your side of things?

BB: I?m moving on.

Q: Would you admit at least you made a mistake?

BB: I?ve made a statement and I think that all of that has been covered.

Q: Do you have any message to young coaches or young kids that are coming up who would look up to someone like yourself and what lessons they should learn from this?

BB: I?m going to try to do the best job that I can coaching this football team and our football team is going to do the best job we can playing and representing this team and our fans and this organization on the field. That?s the way it?s always been. We?re going to work hard to do that.

Q: How important is it to follow the rules of the game?

BB: We?re going to continue to work hard to do that.

[Brass]

STL, that's a typical Belichick interview! Have you not seen any from his past? He doesn't talk that much and basically intentionally makes an idiot out of himself in every interview and doesn't give away much information.

[BBTV]

STL, that's a typical Belichick interview! Have you not seen any from his past? He doesn't talk that much and basically intentionally makes an idiot out of himself in every interview and doesn't give away much information.

Sounds like an Andy Reid interview as well.

[Fred T. Jane]

Well, when his time with the Patriots is done, I'm sure Kim Jong-Il has a position with his name on it.

[STL FANATIC]

STL, that's a typical Belichick interview! Have you not seen any from his past? He doesn't talk that much and basically intentionally makes an idiot out of himself in every interview and doesn't give away much information.

I guess I really haven't seen any.

Regardless, that ones worth read if for no other reason than for how the media responds to him. I love it.

[Waffles]

Some really nice comments from Bill Simmons in his latest column -- it pretty much sums up how I feel as a Pats fan (and I'm sure how other Pats fans feel as well):

Link

...I thought the penalty was slightly excessive but fair. I was hoping they'd lose a second-rounder, but whatever. They cheated, they were warned, they kept cheating, they got caught, they paid the price. (And a steep price at that.)

I did think The Turncoat (aka Eric Mangini) should have been fined for blowing the whistle on Belichick and then inexplicably shaking his hand afterward. Stick to your guns, Mr. Mangineous. If you're going to sell out your old boss during the game, what better way to show your disgust than eschewing the postgame handshake and just walking off the field? What's the point of shaking hands? Hey, great game, congrats on the win. ... By the way, I ratted you out in the first quarter, sorry about that. My dad was more outraged about that two-faced move than anything since the Doc Rivers extension.

That reminds me, everyone's talking about the other teams and implying they were the victims. What about Pats fans? How did we deserve this? Our favorite team cheated, we lost a No. 1 pick, our coach pulled the football version of the Watergate break-in, our entire mini-dynasty has been tainted according to the outside world. ... Seriously, what did we ever do other than support a perpetually crappy franchise with a bad stadium for years and years and years? Do you think we wanted any of this to happen? All week, I almost felt like I did something wrong just because I rooted for these guys. Well, no more. Call them cheaters, call them villains, call them the evil empire, but it's still my team. You can't disown your team just because it does something sleazy, just like you can't disown a close family member for doing something sleazy. Your team is your team. I hate what happened, I think it has been terribly overblown, we paid the price, and we're moving on. At least until Belichick's version of the 17-minute missing Nixon tape is released.

I had to check ESPN to make sure Simmons really, seriously wrote something this idiotic, and that his next paragraph wasn't "I'm kidding". For all his faults and homerism, he's at least a lot smarter and more mature than this most of the time.

Vilifying Mangini for calling attention to the fact that Belichick was cheating or shaking his hand afterward!? Come on. He didn't "sell out his old boss", he rightly pointed out to officials the fact that his opposition was cheating to gain an advantage over the team he was coaching! What the was he supposed to do? Stand on the sidelines and let the Pats do as they pleased? "Stop Snitching" and the culture of blaming the victim and blaming people who report crimes is a pathetic, stupid, harmful mantra and Bill Simmons is so much better than to stoop to that level. Maybe by shaking his hand, Mangini was playing one of the "mind games" the media loves to celebrate Belichick for playing.

Oh, and pardon me if I'm not crying a river for a fanbase that has such an enormous amount of success in the last couple years. Yeesh. Anyone who still wonders why people are as sick of Sox/Pats fans as they are of Yankee fans needs look no further than this paragraph.

I can usually tolerate, if not occasionally enjoy, Simmons, but this is really so far below his level that it's somewhat shocking. But I'm just a jealous homer Jets fan, what do I know.

[DEAD!]

Well, when his time with the Patriots is done, I'm sure Kim Jong-Il has a position with his name on it.

I don't know... one of keys to spying is NOT getting caught.... so for that reason alone, Belichick is no longer qualified

[Fred T. Jane]

I don't know... one of keys to spying is NOT getting caught.... so for that reason alone, Belichick is no longer qualified

Well, NorthKoreanJobs.com had a listing for covert spy/Dear Leader's Publicist, so I guess he'll only be applying for one of those positions now.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

**Brilliance deleted***

I don't have much to add here, but your post was spot on.

I like Bill Simmons because he likes the NBA and WWE, and is the most conversational and accessible major sportswriter. He has a writing style unique to him, and even though he's long since made the big time, you still get the feeling that he's a normal guy. That's hard to do.

However, the homerism, as you said, sometimes gets out of hand. As a Bills fan, it's hard to read his NFL columns. Especially because Simmons, unlike his general fandom of the NBA, is so much more a Patriots backer first, second, and third, and NFL fan fourth. It's annoying. He should be more intellectually honest about this whole thing.

[speedy]

**Brilliance deleted***

I don't have much to add here, but your post was spot on.

I like Bill Simmons because he likes the NBA and WWE, and is the most conversational and accessible major sportswriter. He has a writing style unique to him, and even though he's long since made the big time, you still get the feeling that he's a normal guy. That's hard to do.

However, the homerism, as you said, sometimes gets out of hand. As a Bills fan, it's hard to read his NFL columns. Especially because Simmons, unlike his general fandom of the NBA, is so much more a Patriots backer first, second, and third, and NFL fan fourth. It's annoying. He should be more intellectually honest about this whole thing.

Bah, agreed with you on everything but the last thought. Simmons, as mentioned before, was hired as the Boston Sports Guy. That's his shtick, ESPN knows this, and sometimes markets him in this way. I think what he's going for is when you read him, you feel what a Boston fan is thinking. No matter how obnoxious it may be, he is being honest in his own right. It's what he thinks and how he feels writing about his home teams.

Now is Simmons past his prime? Most definitely. A few years ago I could not wait to read his columns, now I usualy just skim over them, his pop culture references has gotten stale, and I'm afraid so is writing style isn't far behind.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Fair enough. I guess it's pretty stupid to ask him to be intellectually honest about his Pats homerism when he's incredibly upfront about it. So yes, that's the takeaway -- if you don't want to be bludgeoned with Celtics/Patriots/Red Sox hysteria, don't read his columns. It's kind of easy to do so.

[leopard88]

STL, that's a typical Belichick interview! Have you not seen any from his past? He doesn't talk that much and basically intentionally makes an idiot out of himself in every interview and doesn't give away much information.

That style was part of what got him fired by Art Modell. That and a general lack of success, 1994 excepted.

I had to check ESPN to make sure Simmons really, seriously wrote something this idiotic, and that his next paragraph wasn't "I'm kidding". For all his faults and homerism, he's at least a lot smarter and more mature than this most of the time.

Vilifying Mangini for calling attention to the fact that Belichick was cheating or shaking his hand afterward!? Come on. He didn't "sell out his old boss", he rightly pointed out to officials the fact that his opposition was cheating to gain an advantage over the team he was coaching! What the was he supposed to do? Stand on the sidelines and let the Pats do as they pleased? "Stop Snitching" and the culture of blaming the victim and blaming people who report crimes is a pathetic, stupid, harmful mantra and Bill Simmons is so much better than to stoop to that level. Maybe by shaking his hand, Mangini was playing one of the "mind games" the media loves to celebrate Belichick for playing.

Oh, and pardon me if I'm not crying a river for a fanbase that has such an enormous amount of success in the last couple years. Yeesh. Anyone who still wonders why people are as sick of Sox/Pats fans as they are of Yankee fans needs look no further than this paragraph.

I can usually tolerate, if not occasionally enjoy, Simmons, but this is really so far below his level that it's somewhat shocking. But I'm just a jealous homer Jets fan, what do I know.

Well played (sorry, Gitlin). Nothing to add here.

[rmered]

Does this look like a man who can even pay that sort of a fine?