The Patriots are cheaters!

[tBBP]

Man...what in the world has been going on since I left for yet another FTX? Sheesh!

I'm not chiming in on this whole Patriots-spying fiasco, but having read all this, I have this one question, since in one instance I wasn't even born when it occured and in the other two I was too young to remember:

Was there this much hate and resentment towards the 1970's Pittsburgh Steelers, the 1980's San Francisco 49ers, and the early 1990's Dallas Cowboys when they were media darlings and winning championships left and right? I'm just curious.

[griff7774]

Was there this much hate and resentment towards the 1970's Pittsburgh Steelers, the 1980's San Francisco 49ers, and the early 1990's Dallas Cowboys when they were media darlings and winning championships left and right? I'm just curious.

Come on now.... you know everyone loves to hate the Cowboys regardless of era

[rainmaker17]

Was there this much hate and resentment towards the 1970's Pittsburgh Steelers, the 1980's San Francisco 49ers, and the early 1990's Dallas Cowboys when they were media darlings and winning championships left and right? I'm just curious.

Come on now.... you know everyone loves to hate the Cowboys regardless of era

Don't I know it.

[rmered]

Man...what in the world has been going on since I left for yet another FTX? Sheesh!

I'm not chiming in on this whole Patriots-spying fiasco, but having read all this, I have this one question, since in one instance I wasn't even born when it occured and in the other two I was too young to remember:

Was there this much hate and resentment towards the 1970's Pittsburgh Steelers, the 1980's San Francisco 49ers, and the early 1990's Dallas Cowboys when they were media darlings and winning championships left and right? I'm just curious.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TcH_9t_nF30

Sometime the lyrics of a song can answer something better than you or I can come up with.

[OB33]

Are you kidding with the whole ESPN/Patriots thing? After the Super Bowl against the Panthers, all I heard on ESPN was how Delhomme was the next great QB and how he drove the Panthers there, giving little recognition to the Patriots actually winning. After their Super Bowl win against the Eagle, all I heard on ESPN was how brave T.O. was, and how he was being compared to Kirk Gibson. I would love to get the same coverage you get....

I believe this would fall under the category of perception is everything. All I heard after Super Bowl XLI is how Rex Grossman should've been Super Bowl MVP, all Steelers fans heard after Super Bowl XL is how the refs handed the game to them. Has anyone ever said "You know, I think the media is giving my favorite team the credit they deserve." I doubt it.

As for the "No one would care if Jacksonville did it" argument, it's not cheating if it doesn't help you win.

[ZapRowsdower8]

Was there this much hate and resentment towards the 1970's Pittsburgh Steelers, the 1980's San Francisco 49ers, and the early 1990's Dallas Cowboys when they were media darlings and winning championships left and right? I'm just curious.

Those teams were more loved than the Patriots could ever hope to be simply because they didn't come from the era of 24/7 sports coverage, NFL Sunday Ticket, and who knows how many versions of ESPN. In the 70s and 80s peopled watched games on Sunday and read about it in the paper, with less media coverage people didn't have the opportunity to get sick of teams.

[HedleyLamarr]

Super Bowl XXXVI*

Thats all I have to say.

I knew somebody was gonna make a stupid comment like that. I'm surprised it took this long.

How is it stupid?

I mean if they find evidence that there was cheating during that game why not put an * behind it? Just saying.

There isn't evidence of it. That's my point. Everyone's assuming they've been doing this for years, when there have only been two reported instances of it. TWO. Against the Packers and Jets. Nothing about past seasons, nothing about Super Bowls. Check the facts before you accuse.

The Patriots have been caught twice. Is is fair to speculate if the Patriots have pulled this stunt in other games and gotten away with it? It sure is. Cheaters tend to have some sort of previous success in getting away with cheating.

[Nick 1733]

Are you kidding with the whole ESPN/Patriots thing? After the Super Bowl against the Panthers, all I heard on ESPN was how Delhomme was the next great QB and how he drove the Panthers there, giving little recognition to the Patriots actually winning. After their Super Bowl win against the Eagle, all I heard on ESPN was how brave T.O. was, and how he was being compared to Kirk Gibson. I would love to get the same coverage you get....

I believe this would fall under the category of perception is everything. All I heard after Super Bowl XLI is how Rex Grossman should've been Super Bowl MVP, all Steelers fans heard after Super Bowl XL is how the refs handed the game to them. Has anyone ever said "You know, I think the media is giving my favorite team the credit they deserve." I doubt it.

As for the "No one would care if Jacksonville did it" argument, it's not cheating if it doesn't help you win.

I do have to say that after the Broncos won their first Super Bowl, they got all the credit they deserved going into and throughout the next season, including not having anyone trying to tarnish their victory over the Falcons.

HOWEVER, everyone was saying that the Vikings were robbed and that they would have beaten the Broncos in that Super Bowl, and I must say that to an extent, you ARE right. Everyone wants to find something wrong with an NFL championship team now. It's sad actually that no one can give the teams their dues when they win an NFL championship...

The Colts FORCED turnovers against the Bears, the Steelers played better than the Seahawks, and I could go on.

[WJMorris3]

I think the draft pick penalty could have been more steep... perhaps 1st and 2nd if they make the playoffs, 1st and 3rd if they don't?

[RyanB06]

I think the exact opposite - a first-rounder if the Pats make the playoffs (which is a virtual certainty considering recent history) is overkill. A second plus the fines would have been plenty in my book.

This is an excessive punishment. Sadly, some people (including those on this board) will say it wasn't enough.

[mania]

Now...this begs the question....Had this been...say....the Bears or Lions or Texans....would the league have come down harder with a punishment?? I am not claiming preferential treatment or anything...but it being N.E. and all...its very possible

I think the punishment would have been the same, but you wouldn't see so much b.s. from people with their own petty issues with the team.

As a fan, I'm glad they were punished, they got caught doing something illegal, but online lately you'd think they'd been running a kidney smuggling ring out of Belichick's basement and sexually assaulting several board member's mothers.

Also, because they got caught, somehow, every fan of every team they've beaten in the last few years will use this as justification for why their team lost, rather than... you know... not playing football as well.

I love sports, but sometimes, I hate sports fans.

[Nick 1733]

Now...this begs the question....Had this been...say....the Bears or Lions or Texans....would the league have come down harder with a punishment?? I am not claiming preferential treatment or anything...but it being N.E. and all...its very possible

I think the punishment would have been the same, but you wouldn't see so much b.s. from people with their own petty issues with the team.

As a fan, I'm glad they were punished, they got caught doing something illegal, but online lately you'd think they'd been running a kidney smuggling ring out of Belichick's basement and sexually assaulting several board member's mothers.

Also, because they got caught, somehow, every fan of every team they've beaten in the last few years will use this as justification for why their team lost, rather than... you know... not playing football as well.

I love sports, but sometimes, I hate sports fans.

Well, at least you know you don't have to worry about Broncos fans using that.

[RyanB06]

Thanks for the reminder.

[speedy]

"I think they should forfeit, man," said punt returner Reno Mahe. "We won the Super Bowl."

You're kidding right? Come on Eagles, you're better than that. Dogging on a team because they ran screens on you half the time you blitzed. Yeah, they knew what was coming, the Patriots never excessivly used the screen pass before they played you.

As much respect as I've lost for the Patriots this past week, I'm starting to lose respect for players on teams who have lost opening their mouths. Mahe, you should be more concerned about losing to my dismal Packers and preparing yourself for a better game this week than calling out a team who outplayed you 3 years ago.

Fortunatly, Donovan McNabb like usual, saved face with this quote...

"One thing people are forgetting is that even if you have the answers to the test, you still have to take the test," he said. "If they have an idea of what's coming, those guys still have to be able to execute the play."

[Brass]

Are you kidding with the whole ESPN/Patriots thing? After the Super Bowl against the Panthers, all I heard on ESPN was how Delhomme was the next great QB and how he drove the Panthers there, giving little recognition to the Patriots actually winning. After their Super Bowl win against the Eagle, all I heard on ESPN was how brave T.O. was, and how he was being compared to Kirk Gibson. I would love to get the same coverage you get....

Name one team that's featured on ESPN more than the Patriots over the last 6 years. SI too.

Its justified because they've won more Super Bowls over that period than anyone else. I'm just saying, the perception outside of New England is, "get these guys out of here. I'm tired of them because they are always on ESPN."

Edit: You're going to come back with Peyton. He's oversaturated as well.

You're right, the Colts. And for the past few years, all they've shown is whatever team T.O. is causing trouble on (although he has been pretty quite lately.) ESPN is basically 50% basketball (remember the summer Shaq got traded? That was effin' crazy! 45 minutes of that .) 25% baseball, 20% football and 5% of NASCAR, NHL, Tennis, etc etc.

[Brass]

Now...this begs the question....Had this been...say....the Bears or Lions or Texans....would the league have come down harder with a punishment?? I am not claiming preferential treatment or anything...but it being N.E. and all...its very possible

I think the punishment would have been the same, but you wouldn't see so much b.s. from people with their own petty issues with the team.

As a fan, I'm glad they were punished, they got caught doing something illegal, but online lately you'd think they'd been running a kidney smuggling ring out of Belichick's basement and sexually assaulting several board member's mothers.

Also, because they got caught, somehow, every fan of every team they've beaten in the last few years will use this as justification for why their team lost, rather than... you know... not playing football as well.

I love sports, but sometimes, I hate sports fans.

Well, at least you know you don't have to worry about Broncos fans using that.

[quantum]

I think the punishment levied was perfect. The Patriots obviously benefited from the recordings. Since it was believed that they were syncing the video with other material during the game, it was clearly an unfair advantage. Some say ban them from the playoffs, but that punishes the fan and is unfair.

And it is cheating even if you lose. You do need to execute your own game plan to succeed. Similar to when Carrot Top said even if you use steroids, you still need to hit the weight room. It's about having an edge, not a guarantee.

[lopernv]

Now...this begs the question....Had this been...say....the Bears or Lions or Texans....would the league have come down harder with a punishment?? I am not claiming preferential treatment or anything...but it being N.E. and all...its very possible

I think the punishment would have been the same, but you wouldn't see so much b.s. from people with their own petty issues with the team.

As a fan, I'm glad they were punished, they got caught doing something illegal, but online lately you'd think they'd been running a kidney smuggling ring out of Belichick's basement and sexually assaulting several board member's mothers.

Also, because they got caught, somehow, every fan of every team they've beaten in the last few years will use this as justification for why their team lost, rather than... you know... not playing football as well.

I love sports, but sometimes, I hate sports fans.

Well, at least you know you don't have to worry about Broncos fans using that.

Who won?

[BBTV]

"I think they should forfeit, man," said punt returner Reno Mahe. "We won the Super Bowl."

You're kidding right? Come on Eagles, you're better than that. Dogging on a team because they ran screens on you half the time you blitzed. Yeah, they knew what was coming, the Patriots never excessivly used the screen pass before they played you.

As much respect as I've lost for the Patriots this past week, I'm starting to lose respect for players on teams who have lost opening their mouths. Mahe, you should be more concerned about losing to my dismal Packers and preparing yourself for a better game this week than calling out a team who outplayed you 3 years ago.

Fortunatly, Donovan McNabb like usual, saved face with this quote...

"One thing people are forgetting is that even if you have the answers to the test, you still have to take the test," he said. "If they have an idea of what's coming, those guys still have to be able to execute the play."

Reno Mahe was laughing when he said that, went on to make jokes about exchanging his ring, and went on to say that it doesn't matter and you can't go back etc. You took half of a sentence completely out of context and generalized the opinions of an entire team.

You're kidding right? Com on, Speedy, you're better than that.

[DEAD!]

I think the exact opposite - a first-rounder if the Pats make the playoffs (which is a virtual certainty considering recent history) is overkill. A second plus the fines would have been plenty in my book.

This is an excessive punishment. Sadly, some people (including those on this board) will say it wasn't enough.

The fine and loss of draft pick, no hit against the cap is fine by me because it's based on evidence on two incidents and not speculation about previous seasons, but I think it wasn't enough..... I think Belichick should have been suspended without pay for at least one game.

The Patriots were warned before and after this incident, the evidence came out and Belichick admitted what had happened. You need to punish the team and try to find ways to deter cheating like this. Just ask the McLaren F1 team.