Super Bowl XLIII

[gingerbreadmann]

P.S. And may ESPN burn in hell for putting the Santonio Holmes catch and Harrison convoy TD as the #1 and #3 Super Bowl plays of ALL-TIME. They're really going to rank that over John Taylor's catch, Adam Vinateri's kick, Mike Jones' tackle, Marcus Allen's run -- just to name a few?! that!

Wait wait wait...they seriously did that?

Talk about kneejerk reactions. I mean, I'll give the Harrison TD its props. That was one of the best plays, if not the best, in Super Bowl history. But the Santonio Holmes catch happens almost every day in the NFL.

Manning-to-Tyree is still the #1 play, IMO.

They put the Fitzgerald TD as #10 too

[sacker12]

You may as well say that this is Obama beating McCain again.

[robbman21]

I've not heard this mentioned anywhere and it was not even noticed during the broadcast. At the 2:58 mark of the 4th Qtr the Cards called a timeout, and on the next play was the safety on the holding call. A play was ran which was a 20yd completion to Holmes, which was nulified due to the holding penalty. That play lasted 6-8 seconds, and yet when the Steelers punted, the game clock on TV still showed 2:58, which is what I'm assuming the stadium clock still showed. No further run-off was made after the punt and if there was the broadcast mentioned nothing about it. The punt and fair catch took 5 seconds and the Cards took over with 2:53 to play. Even though there was an offensive penalty, the time used to run the voided play SHOULD have ticked-off, but the clock never started NOR was it ever apparently corrected, meaning the Cards had 6-8 more seconds at the start of their final drive than they should have had. I was pulling for the Cards, but should they have scored with around this amount of time remaining, would anyone have ever noticed this miscue by the officials? What would have been done about it? The NFL send a letter of apology to the Steelers afterwards? I've not heard this mentioned in any of the post-game commentary and was wondering if anyone here noticed it? I checked back through the threads of that time of game and it wasn't meantioned.

[JQK]

I've watched that last fumble/incomplete more than a few times now, and his hand is pushing/throwing that ball foward.

Pushing the ball forward is not a forward pass if he doesn't have control of the ball. He loses control just before his arm goes forward.

I've seen it a few times...I have no doubt it's a fumble.

The ball was in his hand as it was going forward. Incomplete pass. It is a black and white rule.

[TFoA]

P.S. And may ESPN burn in hell for putting the Santonio Holmes catch and Harrison convoy TD as the #1 and #3 Super Bowl plays of ALL-TIME. They're really going to rank that over John Taylor's catch, Adam Vinateri's kick, Mike Jones' tackle, Marcus Allen's run -- just to name a few?! that!

Wait wait wait...they seriously did that?

Talk about kneejerk reactions. I mean, I'll give the Harrison TD its props. That was one of the best plays, if not the best, in Super Bowl history. But the Santonio Holmes catch happens almost every day in the NFL.

Manning-to-Tyree is still the #1 play, IMO.

They put the Fitzgerald TD as #10 too

So I can surmise from that that ESPN has marked this down as the greatest Super Bowl of all time.

I am not watching SportsCenter or any other program with talking heads on it until the end of February. Wow.

[gingerbreadmann]

I've not heard this mentioned anywhere and it was not even noticed during the broadcast. At the 2:58 mark of the 4th Qtr the Cards called a timeout, and on the next play was the safety on the holding call. A play was ran which was a 20yd completion to Holmes, which was nulified due to the holding penalty. That play lasted 6-8 seconds, and yet when the Steelers punted, the game clock on TV still showed 2:58, which is what I'm assuming the stadium clock still showed. No further run-off was made after the punt and if there was the broadcast mentioned nothing about it. The punt and fair catch took 5 seconds and the Cards took over with 2:53 to play. Even though there was an offensive penalty, the time used to run the voided play SHOULD have ticked-off, but the clock never started NOR was it ever apparently corrected, meaning the Cards had 6-8 more seconds at the start of their final drive than they should have had. I was pulling for the Cards, but should they have scored with around this amount of time remaining, would anyone have ever noticed this miscue by the officials? What would have been done about it? The NFL send a letter of apology to the Steelers afterwards? I've not heard this mentioned in any of the post-game commentary and was wondering if anyone here noticed it? I checked back through the threads of that time of game and it wasn't meantioned.

I don't know. Honestly, I didn't catch that. Last year during the Giants' last drive it was game clock screw-up central, as documented multiple times on YouTube, and I don't think the Patriots will be getting an apology anytime soon. Plus the Steelers won so who cares.

Who else thinks this cost Harrison the MVP? What a stupid play. Will there even be a fine?

Edit: Here is the official rule on a forward pass:

Article 1 A Pass is the movement of the ball caused by handing, throwing, shoving

(shovel pass), or pushing (push pass) by a runner (3-27-1). Such a movement is a pass,

even though the ball does not leave his hand or hands, provided a teammate takes it

(hand-to-hand pass).

Note: The term is also used to designate the action of a player who causes a pass as in,

“He will pass the ball.”

Article 2 It is a Forward Pass if:

(a) the ball initially moves forward (to a point nearer the opponent’s goal line) after leaving

the passer’s hands; or

(b ) the ball first strikes the ground, a player, an official, or anything else at a point that

is nearer the opponent’s goal line than the point at which the ball leaves the passer’s

hand.

Note 1: When a Team A player is holding the ball to pass it forward, any intentional movement

forward of his hand starts a forward pass. If a Team B player contacts the passer or

the ball after forward movement begins, and the ball leaves the passer’s hand, a forward

pass is ruled, regardless of where the ball strikes the ground or a player.

Note 2: When a Team A player is holding the ball to pass it forward, any intentional forward

movement of his hand starts a forward pass, even if the player loses possession of the

ball as he is attempting to tuck it back toward his body. Also, if the player has tucked the

ball into his body and then loses possession, it is a fumble.

Note 3: If the player loses possession of the ball while attempting to recock his arm, it is a

fumble.

Note 4: A fumble or muff going forward is disregarded as to its direction, unless the act is

ruled intentional. In such cases, the fumble is a forward pass (8-1-1) and the muff is a bat

(12-1-8).

A.R. 3.13 A pass legally handed forward to an eligible pass receiver is followed by a forward pass

in flight from behind the line.

Ruling: A legal pass because the first handoff is not considered a forward pass (see

Exception above).

A.R. 3.14 A pass is legally handed forward to an eligible pass receiver, who muffs the ball and it

is recovered by the defensive team.

Ruling: Not an incomplete pass. It is treated as a fumble and the defensive team keeps

the ball.

Tank, Swann's play was #6 or something, but I hear you.

[robbman21]

I've not heard this mentioned anywhere and it was not even noticed during the broadcast. At the 2:58 mark of the 4th Qtr the Cards called a timeout, and on the next play was the safety on the holding call. A play was ran which was a 20yd completion to Holmes, which was nulified due to the holding penalty. That play lasted 6-8 seconds, and yet when the Steelers punted, the game clock on TV still showed 2:58, which is what I'm assuming the stadium clock still showed. No further run-off was made after the punt and if there was the broadcast mentioned nothing about it. The punt and fair catch took 5 seconds and the Cards took over with 2:53 to play. Even though there was an offensive penalty, the time used to run the voided play SHOULD have ticked-off, but the clock never started NOR was it ever apparently corrected, meaning the Cards had 6-8 more seconds at the start of their final drive than they should have had. I was pulling for the Cards, but should they have scored with around this amount of time remaining, would anyone have ever noticed this miscue by the officials? What would have been done about it? The NFL send a letter of apology to the Steelers afterwards? I've not heard this mentioned in any of the post-game commentary and was wondering if anyone here noticed it? I checked back through the threads of that time of game and it wasn't meantioned.

I don't know. Honestly, I didn't catch that. Last year during the Giants' last drive it was game clock screw-up central, as documented multiple times on YouTube, and I don't think the Patriots will be getting an apology anytime soon. Plus the Steelers won so who cares.

Who else thinks this cost Harrison the MVP? What a stupid play. Will there even be a fine?

It was incredibly stupid we all agreed...and we were all surprised that it did not warrant an ejection.

As far as the clock management that I mentioned, if anyone has the game recorded you can watch it on the play the safety occured to see what I'm talking about.

[NJTank]

P.S. And may ESPN burn in hell for putting the Santonio Holmes catch and Harrison convoy TD as the #1 and #3 Super Bowl plays of ALL-TIME. They're really going to rank that over John Taylor's catch, Adam Vinateri's kick, Mike Jones' tackle, Marcus Allen's run -- just to name a few?! that!

Wait wait wait...they seriously did that?

Talk about kneejerk reactions. I mean, I'll give the Harrison TD its props. That was one of the best plays, if not the best, in Super Bowl history. But the Santonio Holmes catch happens almost every day in the NFL.

Manning-to-Tyree is still the #1 play, IMO.

This is what makes ESPN suck now.

Have some friggen historical perceptive, yeah they are great plays, but Super Bowl X Lynn Swann hello its not even the best Steeler play

[NEW.ERA]

I may be still young but I would have to say this is my favorite Super Bowl (Besides XXXI) and the most exciting it had me on the edge of my seat soon as Fitzy caught the TD to make a game of it.

[Chief.]

Who else thinks this cost Harrison the MVP? What a stupid play. Will there even be a fine?

That's an ejection plain and simple. On top of shoving the guy over, he threw a punch.

[clyon81]

what is so terrible about suggesting there is a preffered outcome? If fans care as much as they do, wouldnt it seem to stand that the league, who will actually profit from the outcome, would have a preference? i dont think its a crazy notion at all.

now if you want to point to the six hash marks in the logo, or the correlation between the terrible towels and the penalty flags, you might be reaching.

Personally, I feel that believing in the authenticity of professional sports being comepleley unscripted is like arguing the exsistance of santa and the easter bunny. And how much more enjoyable are the holidays for those that still do? the major difference is, if you take away the stories, its just millionaires chasing balls around. But i certinly enjoyed it when i still believed, and if you still do? good 4 u

;-)

[Squeaks4]

Wow I am more bummed than I thought I would be. No denying it as one of the best Super Bowls though. I wish I could complain about the refs but I know it would just end up looking like I was a homer or soar loser so whatever. Congrats to the Steelers and all of their fans, excluding Harrison. That stunt he pulled was incredibly cheap and dirty. Shame he wasnt ejected. Hopefully he will have a nice fine on the way

[Mac the Knife]

I just saw another replay of the Warner fumble. The ball was hit and started to come lose just before Warner's arm came forward. So the control was lost before the forward throwing motion started. The fumble started before his arm went forward.

Wish I could find a replay online. But I watched for that every time I've seen a replay, and I just don't see it that way.

Of course not.

I'm sorry we're not seeing the same thing. I'm clearly the only one who disagrees with the call.

My bad.

You aren't. I was pulling for Pittsburgh (such as I pull for anyone, anyway), and I also thought it was a forward pass.

HOWEVER, another factor in all this that's been missed (or at least in this thread, up to the point of this post): Warner removed his helmet after both instances where a fumble was ruled. In neither case was he assessed the 15-yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty that automatically should've been assessed for doing so.

So for sake of argument, let's say the fumble becomes an incomplete pass. The Cardinals still would have the ball, with offsetting UC fouls (Warner's for Arizona, Woodley's for Pittsburgh) with the Cards having to throw a Hail Mary, at least 44 yards downfield, to a backfield that no doubt would've been absolutely swarming with 7-8 Steelers defenders. Sorry, but there's no way the Cards pull that one out.

[Mac the Knife]

I've not heard this mentioned anywhere and it was not even noticed during the broadcast. At the 2:58 mark of the 4th Qtr the Cards called a timeout, and on the next play was the safety on the holding call. A play was ran which was a 20yd completion to Holmes, which was nulified due to the holding penalty. That play lasted 6-8 seconds, and yet when the Steelers punted, the game clock on TV still showed 2:58, which is what I'm assuming the stadium clock still showed. No further run-off was made after the punt and if there was the broadcast mentioned nothing about it. The punt and fair catch took 5 seconds and the Cards took over with 2:53 to play. Even though there was an offensive penalty, the time used to run the voided play SHOULD have ticked-off, but the clock never started NOR was it ever apparently corrected, meaning the Cards had 6-8 more seconds at the start of their final drive than they should have had. I was pulling for the Cards, but should they have scored with around this amount of time remaining, would anyone have ever noticed this miscue by the officials? What would have been done about it? The NFL send a letter of apology to the Steelers afterwards? I've not heard this mentioned in any of the post-game commentary and was wondering if anyone here noticed it? I checked back through the threads of that time of game and it wasn't meantioned.

Actually if you look at the NBC clock throughout the course of the game, there are a number of instances where the clock should've been stopped but wasn't (out of bounds plays, following changes of possession, etc.). Whoever was operating the clock at the stadium, at least to me, seemed interested in having an early night off.

[Sodboy13]

Right. Which means the refs were wrong and the booth was wrong. And they were SOO wrong, they didn't even give themselves a chance to get it right.

Un-effing-believable.

That's two they took from you, Kurt.

Whoawhoawhoa. Say what?

Spygate.

At least I won $400 for the 2 7s in the halftime score.

No. Spygate was its own taint to that game.

I'm talking about the mugging of Rams receivers on every play. The final drive which consisted of a non-called stopping of forward motion (they instead let him go backwards out of bounds to stop the clock), a non-called and blatant intentional grounding, and a ticking of 3-4 seconds off the clock when the kick went through.

I remember watching the end of that Rams/Pats Super Bowl and asking out loud, "Wait, why is the clock still running?" I didn't have a horse in that race, much as I didn't in this one (rocked the Rhein Fire jersey in style, for those of you scoring at home.) And yet, the end of that game left way too much suspicion in the air. Everyone in the room I was in, including people who had money on both sides, was stunned that there was no booth review on what seemed a very close call, if not one that should be overturned. I saw forward motion with a ball still in hand; your mileage, naturally, may vary.

That said, this game isn't won by Kurt pulling off the Annexation of Puerto Rico at the end of the 4th; it's won by him not throwing that pick at the goal line, or, for that matter, any one of eleven men knocking down rumblin' stumblin' fatboy on his 100-yard sojourn to the end zone. That's a 7-to-14-point swing, and that's your ballgame. The endless cascade of dumb penalties didn't help matters.

Actually if you look at the NBC clock throughout the course of the game, there are a number of instances where the clock should've been stopped but wasn't (out of bounds plays, following changes of possession, etc.). Whoever was operating the clock at the stadium, at least to me, seemed interested in having an early night off.

Also, if you go to when Roethlisberger got the snap off before the 2-minute warning, the clock operator clearly assumed there was no play, and the clock freezes at 2:00 for a good 3 or 4 seconds.

[STL FANATIC]

Replay here: http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d...goryId=featured

The ball is indeed hit in Warner's hand. Warner holds his the ball low. IIRC, he only keeps his pink on the laces. So, yes, the ball angle does change in his hand. But at no point does he appear to have lost grip of the ball until he brings it forward.

The refs disagreed with each other. One said incomplete pass, the other said fumble.

Thirty-six seconds elapsed between the time the ball left Warner's hand and the time the Steelers took their snap. Meaning the MAX amount of time (and you know it wasn't half that much) spent reviewing the play upstairs was 36 seconds.

What a joke.

[rams80]

Who else thinks this cost Harrison the MVP? What a stupid play. Will there even be a fine?

Nah....he's just "playing the game the way it was meant to be played." To fine would continue the "pussification" of the league.

[jkrdevil]

Replay here: http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d...goryId=featured

The ball is indeed hit in Warner's hand. Warner holds his the ball low. IIRC, he only keeps his pink on the laces. So, yes, the ball angle does change in his hand. But at no point does he appear to have lost grip of the ball until he brings it forward.

The refs disagreed with each other. One said incomplete pass, the other said fumble.

Thirty-six seconds elapsed between the time the ball left Warner's hand and the time the Steelers took their snap. Meaning the MAX amount of time (and you know it wasn't half that much) spent reviewing the play upstairs was 36 seconds.

What a joke.

If it changes angles that means it is coming loose. If you have ever seen any review you would know as soon as the ball starts moving it is considered loose. Thus by your own account it is a fumble.

Here is the official word from the NFL:

According to NFL VP of Officiating Mike Pereira, the replay official upstairs did see the play clearly.

“We confirmed it was a fumble,” said Pereira. “The replay assistant in the replay booth saw it was clearly a fumble. The ball got knocked loose and was rolling in his hand before it started forward. He has to have total control.”

http://www.nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/28971640/

[rams80]

According to NFL VP of Officiating Mike Pereira, the replay official upstairs did see the play clearly.

?We confirmed it was a fumble,? said Pereira. ?The replay assistant in the replay booth saw it was clearly a fumble. The ball got knocked loose and was rolling in his hand before it started forward. He has to have total control.?

http://www.nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/28971640/

News to me.

/seen that ruled a pass more often than not.

[jkrdevil]

According to NFL VP of Officiating Mike Pereira, the replay official upstairs did see the play clearly.

?We confirmed it was a fumble,? said Pereira. ?The replay assistant in the replay booth saw it was clearly a fumble. The ball got knocked loose and was rolling in his hand before it started forward. He has to have total control.?

http://www.nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/28971640/

News to me.

/seen that ruled a pass more often than not.

I think it is well established that under replay any ball movement constitutes the ball being loose. Whether it detirmining a fumble or whether a reciever had complete control of a catch.